When it comes to commercial glue down, what's more important

[Mikey P]

Most of us know that the ultimate way to clean CGD is the vac, pre-spray, scrub, TM extraction, let it dry and post bonnet/OP to fix wicking and remove additional soil.

Most situations don't allow for this "dual method" approach.

So we either HWE ( and most of us will forgo the vac and pre scrub) and maybe do a few dry strokes, and hope for the best.

Which is usually slow drying, stanky odor, reappearing spots and a botchy appearance.


Some run an RX or Zipper, which removes a bit more soil but can lead to even more stanky/reappearing issues due to MORE water being used..


Sending techs to do the work leads to an even shittier job. Sure they pretend to care while the boss watches

Of you can OP with two types of pads, blue for most and cotton blend for the heavy use areas. Yep you are removing less deep down soil but the carpet dries before it can wick, the spots are gone, no stanky and to 99.9% of the human race it looks great.


In the end, comparing both, which is a more "quality product/service"?


HWE because of your moral victory over the soil demos or a VLM with happy customer who didn't have to deal with the HWE systems' short comings?




yeah yeah, you never get redos, no complaints blah blah, most commercial jos can't afford the time and costs involved to have you come back to to fix issues, they just try someone else next time.

 

[FB7777]

You pretty much have your hand on the pulse of the reality….


primary reason we clean 99% HWE is cause I’m an old dog, customers are happy and we don’t often run into situations where we can’t run hoses

 

[Jim Pemberton]

One of the benefits I received while I served my sentence as an IICRC volunteer was getting to know the technical people at carpet mills (as opposed to the public relations people they sent to the trade shows).

More than one admitted that commercial glue down is challenging to maintian due to the difficulty of removing dry soil from the carpet.

Pile lifters and CRBs used for dry soil removal help a great deal, but few places put much emphasis on the right equipment, procedures, and frequencies in their in house maintenance practices.

That problem creates the wicking nightmares many cleaners experience.

I guess any moral dilemmas that might be had in deciding whether to use VLM versus HWE have a lot to do with your customers' willingness to pay for multiple steps and visits (why should you have to fix for free what they created?) and really what is often the better appearing result.

Go in peace Michael. You're probably not going to hell for this, maybe just heck.

 

[hogjowl]

Oh the lengths you’ll go to sell

 

[FB7777]

Oh the lengths you’ll go to sell

Mike is a born salesman

His experience and word put quite a bit of money in other peoples pockets based on his recommendations

If you ask me, it’s about time he line his own

 

[Cleanworks]

Doing a job today with encap that I used to use the truck mount on. Very difficult to use hwe on this job anymore. Cgd over wood floors with a skim coat of concrete. Carpets are over 20 years old and the floor underneath is uneven causing the wand to chatter and skip. Using the Trinity gives a more even cleaning with no wicking issues. Also works better on spots and stains with no additional products needed most of the time. Doesn't make sense to set up 350 feet of hose when I can park right by the elevator and bring my machine directly into the area needing to be cleaned.

 

[Mikey P]

One of the benefits I received while I served my sentence as an IICRC volunteer was getting to know the technical people at carpet mills (as opposed to the public relations people they sent to the trade shows).

More than one admitted that commercial glue down is challenging to maintian due to the difficulty of removing dry soil from the carpet.

Pile lifters and CRBs used for dry soil removal help a great deal, but few places put much emphasis on the right equipment, procedures, and frequencies in their in house maintenance practices.

That problem creates the wicking nightmares many cleaners experience.

I guess any moral dilemmas that might be had in deciding whether to use VLM versus HWE have a lot to do with your customers' willingness to pay for multiple steps and visits (why should you have to fix for free what they created?) and really what is often the better appearing result.

Go in peace Michael. You're probably not going to hell for this, maybe just heck.

Most GCD gets either backpacked/ brushroll-less vacuumed these days or a belt-less Sanitaire... Lol..

Less H20 is more.

 

[Mikey P]

Oh the lengths you’ll go to sell

#bitter

 

[FB7777]

#bitter

At least if we come across a company needing a recliner rep, we know a guy

 

[steve_64]

Mike is a born salesman

His experience and word put quite a bit of money in other peoples pockets based on his recommendations

If you ask me, it’s about time he line his own

You have something on your nose.

 

[BIG WOOD]

I just read over a huge contract on 1M sq ft carpet cleaning yesterday.

LMC is allowed. But surprisingly noted, Bonnett cleaning isn’t allowed. Only CRB

 

[steve_64]

Got a small restaurant this afternoon. I will prescrub with a pad and probably saigers stuff then extract. It's nasty.
Last night's Bob Evans just gets wanded. No product. It's done monthly. Manager said it's one of the last restaurants to have this carpet because I can keep it clean. The seams are coming apart though so I know it won't be much longer before it's replaced.
My offices are done yearly. Why do all the extra when they don't take care of it regularly? Just make them happy whatever that takes.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I just read over a huge contract on 1M sq ft carpet cleaning yesterday.

LMC is allowed. But surprisingly noted, Bonnett cleaning isn’t allowed. Only CRB

The carpet mills have some strong antipathy toward bonnet cleaning; that has ended up impacting other related methods unfairly.

175 rpm scrubbers, dirty or unlubricated bonnets, GKW chemistry, and untrained technicians create resoiling and actual carpet damage issues of nightmarish proportions.

 

[encapman]

You bring up a good point Mikey. That was the world I lived in doing tons of commercial carpet. EVERY method that we tried had some kind of drawback.

Wicking, and recurring stains were the order of the day. And it got worse when I would send out techs. Let’s face it, I learned how to baby the carpet and cajole some decent results from CGD. But trying to get techs to get creative and attempt to fix a messed up CGD was too much to expect.

That’s why I kept exploring options. My IICRC instructors could give me nothing of substance. The trade journals offered nothing. Though my local distributors did have plenty of suggestions… leading me to purchase one thing after another as I tried to resolve the problem. Yet the myriad of problems with CGD remained.

So that’s why I kept searching. When I finally discovered the Cimex/encap system that’s when things changed. Dingy carpets were no longer dingy. All of the recurring spill stains disappeared. Wicking was no longer an issue. Now all of the carpets that we maintained looked good.

Sure, we can get all La Di Da about the morality of HWE. But I’m talking real world. And in the real world people want to see clean carpet. And now we were finally in a position to deliver turn key results on every job. And we were able to easily achieve these kind of results with average technicians. Our company was now able to provide consistent results, without customer complaints, while maintaining a good profit margin.

While HWE may be the best way to flush a carpet of the greatest quantity of soil in a single shot — a good Encap system can keep a commercial carpet looking great on a day-in day-out basis. And at the end of the day, satisfying our customers while running a systematized profitable company is why we're in business. :-)

 

[hogjowl]

Another unbiased opinion

 

[Cleanworks]

Cleaned over 4000 sqft of cgd and 3-4 story staircases in 3.5 hours for $1300. Carpets are due for replacement and in fact the strata is looking replacing with carpet tiles in 6 months to a year. All they want is a better appearance, for it to look better and smell better. It wouldn't make any difference as to what method I used, the carpets are done for. The Trinity along with Saigers Oxy encap sweetened with a little Saigercide eucalyptus mint is the best tool for the job in my opinion. Takes less than half the time compared to a truck mount, the carpets have a better appearance and are dry in an hour.

 

[Trip Moses]

And in the real world people want to see clean carpet.

I stopped reading here. This is what matters.

 

[BIG WOOD]

The carpet mills have some strong antipathy toward bonnet cleaning; that has ended up impacting other related methods unfairly.

175 rpm scrubbers, dirty or unlubricated bonnets, GKW chemistry, and untrained technicians create resoiling and actual carpet damage issues of nightmarish proportions.

I heard from the gossip chain that there's a fancy new crb with some bells and whistles that Shaw recently approved a couple years ago. Makes sense why they allow crb cleaning and not the others. I'm surprised it's not in the spotlight yet

 

[Dolly Llama]

best thing to ever happen to 90% and great for the 10%'s too
I'm curious (honest question) what and when changed the WGCC 2%'er outlook on this?

after 30 years they determined "it really doesn't matter" as long as it looks good?

Honest question.
what and when turned you 180?


..L.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

best thing to ever happen to 90% and great for the 10%'s too
I'm curious (honest question) what and when changed the WGCC 2%'er outlook on this?

after 30 years they determined "it really doesn't matter" as long as it looks good?

Honest question.
what and when turned you 180?


..L.T.A.

When I became a 1%r and stopped worrying about what internet gurus would think.

 

[Kenny Hayes]

I’m actually able to do all the double methods in my schools during the summer. They afford me to. Still cost less than stripping and refinishing when they had vct in classrooms. Then I maintain with vlm during the year. Perfect scenario. Even more perfect, I’m not the one doing it

 

[FB7777]

They installed my 7x13 heated jacuzzi today

I’m exhausted

 

[Mikey P]

best thing to ever happen to 90% and great for the 10%'s too
I'm curious (honest question) what and when changed the WGCC 2%'er outlook on this?

after 30 years they determined "it really doesn't matter" as long as it looks good?

Honest question.
what and when turned you 180?


..L.T.A.

Be honest, what makes you think HWE is more "Quality" in the end?

 

[BIG WOOD]

Be honest, what makes you think HWE is more "Quality" in the end?

When it's able to be done. I understand if you're a mile in the building and HWE isn't reasonable. But if it's available, it's always better quality.

 

[FB7777]

Be honest, what makes you think HWE is more "Quality" in the end?

MeAt is convinced it’s the Durarock of cleaning

We clean a ton of ‘clean’ carpet just because

When you rehab section 8s you can’t buff away despair

It needs to be melted off

 

[Dolly Llama]

stopped worrying about what internet gurus would think.

you were the guru, dude
what "enlightened" you to change 180?

Be honest, what makes you think HWE is more "Quality" in the end?

removes more soil

..L.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

So why didn't you use an RX20 or a rotovac with a clear tube and go over it till the water ran clean?

 

[Mikey P]

Most people with experience with hot water extraction get into one of these messes that you're describing and they will intentionally use as little water as possible. Turning down the pressure, only spring and one direction and dry stroke. The heck out of it just to make it look better but not wick up or get stinky...


No I don't suspect. I know you and all the other hot water DieHards do the same thing because you don't want to come back the next day and fix the wicking.

 

[Cleanworks]

I have 3 buildings coming up that technically, I could encap. Commercial carpet but installed over pad. They are not as well maintained as the one I did today. I prefer to use the truck mount on those ones because if the type of install, degree of soiling and ease of setup for the truck. Each one takes 3 hours for $700. Encap machines are just another tool in the tool box. You have to choose what's right for the situation.

 

[Mikey P]

Another unbiased opinion

If you knew anything about retail you would know that I make far more money on my Gludes than I do selling other's vlm machines or pads or chemistry, So why wouldn't I be pushing HWE equipment over VLM ya dopey idiot