Where do we as a collective fall?

[Greenie]

A World economy doesn't change my point above.

And for you party guys, both sides of the fence sold us out long ago.....bring back Perot.

 

[ruff]

This has to make you think a little bit.

George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the economy was fine.



A little over one year ago:


1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high--14,000 +
5) Americans were buying new cars, taking cruises, vacations overseas, living large!....

But Americans wanted 'CHANGE'! So, in 2006 they voted in a Democratic Congress & yep--we got 'CHANGE' all right. In the past year…


1) Consumer confidence has plummeted ;
2) Gasoline is now over $4 a gallon & climbing!;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION
DOLLARS & prices still dropping;
5) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
6) as I write, THE DOW is probing another low~~11,100--
$2.5 TRILLION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR
STOCKS, BONDS & MUTUAL FUNDS INVESTMENT
PORTFOLIOS!

YEP , IN 2006 AMERICA VOTED FOR CHANGE!....AND WE SURE GOT IT!!!...NOW OBAMA, the DEM'S CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT--AND THE POLLS SAY HE'S GONNA BE 'THE MAN'--CLAIMS HE'S GONNA REALLY GIVE US CHANGE!!....JUST HOW MUCH MORE 'CHANGE' DO YA THINK YOU CAN STAND???


So who is to blame ????????????????

Wow,
Chris.
Take your head out of the hole.
Bush the father got us into deep financial sh...
Then Clinton got us much better.
W (as in this shameful shameless poor excuse of a president sold the country to the oil companies and dumped trillions of dollars in Iraq on a very poorly planned war.
And now congress gets the blame for all of that in two years.
Get your head out of......

Obama all the way.
At least he is a decent human being!

 

[Dolly Llama]

.

And for you party guys, both sides of the fence sold us out long ago.....bring back Perot.

now you're talkin'

and yes i DID vote for ole Ross

the rest of you that "thought" about it were just TOO CHICKEN SH!T TO DO IT!!!!


you manipulated CANDY AZZ weenies make me wanna PUKE!


..L.T.A.

 

[Dolly Llama]

And while the thought of a 3rd party guy is a nice theory, I think he/she could do nothing with a GOP/DEM congress....

you have to start moving the mountain one shovel full at a time...


..L.T.A.

 

[Mike Draper]

To be fair most of those facts can be attributed to the mortgage scandal that started way before the Dems took over

I can agree with that one!!!

Oh yeah and F--K China. I with greenie on this one. And one more reason to hate China....when the Chinese people come over here they are rude as hell and lie worse than any other society I ever worked with. Yes, I've worked with many Chinese people. I sold Toyota and Honda for 10 years. Never been treated worse, every single one that Ever wanted to buy a car from me was the biggest, lying, cheating rudest asshole I've ever talked with. For the last three years I sold I would not even acknowledge their presence when they came near me, I just walk the other way. However, to be say something nicer......Japanese people were nicer. Ok, I'm done ranting!!

 

[ruff]

Trickle down economy does not work.
Unless of course you are rich. Then it works great.

There is nothing wrong with making money and being succesful. Planty wrong with the system rigged to benefit only the super rich.

Hang on to the dream of the republicans being for small business. They never have been and never will be. No health insurance , more tax on middle class and with the Bush administration even bigger government.

Do some research and un-brainwash yourselves from all the republican crap and wedge issues.

Democrats are better for the economy, better for the middle class and blue collar workers. Better period.
Unless you go for the wedge issues. "God is republican" and everybody else is a "Comunist/Socialist" blah blah blah.

Proud to be a bleeding heart liberal.

Trickle down does work. It works all too well, actually. Here in TN we have had business' leave because of taxes and local yokels fighting "big business." The state unemployement is at or a little over 7%, with many areas being around 13%. Every day I hear about more layoffs. Large and small business is laying of, business' are closing, business is going brankrupt, even what we thought were some of the most stable business' around have filed bankruptcy.

Yeah, for the love of God don't give the big guy a break so the little guy can have a job.. You can argue 'til you're blue in the face, but I see it everday here. My wife has been out of work for almost 7 months, and we know many others in the same boat.

Facinating logic there Fon.
Seven years of possibly the worse president ever, (under whose administration the government has been larger then under any modern administration) and you are complaining about the democrats.
How was the unemployment there under Clinton.
Lame the blame where it belongs.

Democrats create jobs.
Republican create defecit.

Democrats try to provide health care to the majority of Americans.
Republicans help the Health insurers prosper.

Go Barak.
It takes many wise men to fix what one idiot (W) has damaged.
It will take many years to fix this one.

 

[Fon Johnson]

Trickle down economy does not work.
Unless of course you are rich. Then it works great.

There is nothing wrong with making money and being succesful. Planty wrong with the system rigged to benefit only the super rich.

Hang on to the dream of the republicans being for small business. They never have been and never will be. No health insurance , more tax on middle class and with the Bush administration even bigger government.

Do some research and un-brainwash yourselves from all the republican crap and wedge issues.

Democrats are better for the economy, better for the middle class and blue collar workers. Better period.
Unless you go for the wedge issues. "God is republican" and everybody else is a "Comunist/Socialist" blah blah blah.

Proud to be a bleeding heart liberal.

Trickle down does work. It works all too well, actually. Here in TN we have had business' leave because of taxes and local yokels fighting "big business." The state unemployement is at or a little over 7%, with many areas being around 13%. Every day I hear about more layoffs. Large and small business is laying of, business' are closing, business is going brankrupt, even what we thought were some of the most stable business' around have filed bankruptcy.

Yeah, for the love of God don't give the big guy a break so the little guy can have a job.. You can argue 'til you're blue in the face, but I see it everday here. My wife has been out of work for almost 7 months, and we know many others in the same boat.

Facinating logic there Fon.
Seven years of possibly the worse president ever, (under whose administration the government has been larger then under any modern administration) and you are complaining about the democrats.
How was the unemployment there under Clinton.
Lame the blame where it belongs.

Democrats create jobs.
Republican create defecit.

Democrats try to provide health care to the majority of Americans.
Republicans help the Health insurers prosper.

Go Barak.
It takes many wise men to fix what one idiot (W) has damaged.
It will take many years to fix this one.

How about using some intelligence here and leave the usual liberal name calling out of it? Who controlled congress under Clinton?

Now, my point had NOTHING to do with partisan argument, but rather that trickle down does work. Do you understand what trickle down means? It has nothing to do with democrat or republican..

 

[cu]

chuck is doing the right thing
to think that you should close the door on the outside world economy is just wrong it did not work for russia or china did it
and how big could wal mart be without moving outside the us .....and if they didnt bring in so much cheap crap how could so many people get the goods they have in there homes

should prochem, hydramaster, blueline not sell to the rest of the world

the world has got so small now america has to look for the way to lead the world in the new needs of the world

exp clean coal power plants.....can it be done , yes., is the US at the forfront, no. germany is
it has the only plant in the world that they say can do it

but i do think McCain did make a good speach to night....

 

[ruff]

Fon,
Trickle down means that the rich and the corporations pay little to no tax at all.
Then supposedly with all the mullah and out of the goodness of their heart, they will throw some left over for the rest of the population.

Supposedly they will create more jobs so the people can work at Walmart for a whopping $ 6.00 an hour. Without health insurance of course. That will be socialism, wouldn't it?

If you ever noticed, since Reagan became president, a smaller and smaller percentage of the population in the U.S. controls more and more of the wealth?

Also, this is the first generation in U.S. history that the children are financially worse off then their parents. The first.

But, rest assured- God is on W's side. After all, he is the "family" president.

Not.

 

[Mike Draper]

If you ever noticed, since Reagan became president, a smaller and smaller percentage of the population in the U.S. controls more and more of the wealth?

United States of America (Press Release) October 9, 2007 -- Houston, Texas (ActionAmerica.org) October 10, 2007 – Last Thursday, the IRS very quietly released their annual Tax Collections Data by Percentile. As in previous years, this report totally dispels the popular myth that the rich don’t pay tax. This collections report, broken down by income category or “percentiles,” shows that while the top earning five percent of income earners only earn just over a third (36%) of all income, they pay almost two-thirds (60%) of the tax that is actually collected.


so the top 5% pay 60% of the taxes and earn 36% of all income.

 

[Mike Draper]

here is some more...............

The same is true for other income levels as well. According to the IRS data, the wealthiest 5% of Americans earned 37% of the nation’s income, but paid some 60% of the nation’s income taxes. The top 25% of Americans earned 68% of the nation’s income, but paid 86% of the nation’s taxes.

And astonishingly, the top 50% of American earners brought in 88% of income dollars, but paid 97% of all income taxes in this country. Thus, half of the American population is paying almost the entirety of income taxes.

So what was that about paying their “fair share?”

And precisely how does Senator Barack Obama plan to cut taxes for lower-income Americans, when the lower half of income earners already pay only 3% of the nation’s income taxes?

 

[Fon Johnson]

Mike, you are wasting your breath with statistics. All liberals know is rhetoric and name calling.

Ofer, please re-read my post. You still don't get it. On second thought, don't bother. You are not going to get it, and I'm not up for arguing against a bunch of inane diatribe.

 

[Greenie]

I totally agree with the "lucky President" comment.

but...anyone that says GO Obama! is just as confused as the next guy, Dems will make us bleed just as bad as the Republicans.....and we still won't have Good Healthcare, a flat rate sales tax or anyting else that just plain makes sense.

I still say where is Perot?

And just for the record, it doesn't mater who controls the house or the senate, bad bills are bad bills, veto is a wonderful power.

 

[Wayne Miller]

Speaking of no-show CEO wives, I wonder how many houses Kerry has now?

 

[ruff]

If you ever noticed, since Reagan became president, a smaller and smaller percentage of the population in the U.S. controls more and more of the wealth?

United States of America (Press Release) October 9, 2007 -- Houston, Texas (ActionAmerica.org) October 10, 2007 – Last Thursday, the IRS very quietly released their annual Tax Collections Data by Percentile. As in previous years, this report totally dispels the popular myth that the rich don’t pay tax. This collections report, broken down by income category or “percentiles,” shows that while the top earning five percent of income earners only earn just over a third (36%) of all income, they pay almost two-thirds (60%) of the tax that is actually collected.


so the top 5% pay 60% of the taxes and earn 36% of all income.

Mike,
60% on their taxable income.
That is after all the tax shelters have been deducted. And boy do they find tax shelters.
Yes it is all legal.
And boy are all those special interest lobbyist well funded.

 

[ruff]

Fon,


Also, this is the first generation in U.S. history that the children are financially worse off then their parents. The first.

Can you explain to me how this is figured? Would you say they are financially worse off than the generation of say 1978? Are they facing double digit inflation? Is the prime rate over 20%? Is there an actual fuel shortage? Double digit inflation? Unemployment at 6% and climbing?

What is being considered a generation here?



These numbers really rely on consumer confidence, consumer priorities, base economy shifts, and world politics.(and yes I realize these things are somewhat effected by who is in office)

Some examples:
http://www.miseryindex.us/URbyyear.asp
http://www.miseryindex.us/irbyyear.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fede ... (effective).svg

Frederick,
It's simple. And it has nothing to do with who is in office.

You do an average:
How many (on average) hours did previous generations have to work to buy their house, car, education for their kids etc.
How many hours do we have to work today to buy the same.
Check it out. We are much worse today as a nation then before.

It could well be that you make more then your parents did (congratulations) but on average as a nation we are worse.

It is a fact.

 

[ruff]

Mike, you are wasting your breath with statistics. All liberals know is rhetoric and name calling.

Ofer, please re-read my post. You still don't get it. On second thought, don't bother. You are not going to get it, and I'm not up for arguing against a bunch of inane diatribe.

FON,
I did.
There is no there, there!

 

[Greenie]

Chuckie, (and that cranky Irishman), I never said i want a closed society, but you damn sure are gonna buy as much US product as you sell or we ain't doin' business.

If you tax and embargo foreign manufacture of US goods, it encourages US companies to use US labor not cheap internation labor with human rights issues.

Is this that hard to understand? Or do you guys want to follow Chuckie and head to China to keep a good job?

Or maybe you are okay with the kids heading off to China in search of a good job, somebody has to pay for your long term healthcare.

Lobbyist....please, don't bring that up, they belong with the lawyers on the bottom of the river.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Did you notice old man McCain and his eye candy VP use fear to get their vote. They tell us how unsafe we are and basically scare people into voting for them, basically saying Barak will get us killed. I understand its a tough world but that is a big theme for them and they know FEAR is a great way to control people. You keep them afraid and you can get their vote and keep them inline. You do know I am right........... :shock:

Plus McCain is soooooo old, so does he have the pulse of the nation??? Will he have a pulse in a few years??? and the VP has 5 KIDS, that is a full time job by itself. She should of never of accepted the VP because here family will suffer in certain aspects. IMHO

:mrgreen:

 

[Greenie]

:shock:

 

[Steve in Omaha]

Trickle down economy does not work.

Most of us here work the higher end of the market, and have been very successful doing so. There is sooooo much trickle down in every facet of the economy. Man, there are middle class people with granite counter tops and hot tubs. Some of our "poor" people are the biggest and fattest on the planet.

 

[Steve in Omaha]

All things being equal, I'd rather see tax and spend than borrow and spend!

When will the liberals get it. The economy and taxes are not a zero sum game. It has been proven over and over, lower taxes and tax revenues usually increase. Increase taxes, and people get very crafty.

 

[ruff]

Frederick:
Here is one:

-"Both the Wall Street Journal and CNN Money recently ran articles about a new study that concluded that American men in their 30s are earning less than their father’s generation after adjusting for inflation.

In 2004, the median income for a man in his 30s, a good predictor of his lifetime earnings, was $35,010, the study says, 12% less than for men in their 30s in 1974 — their fathers’ generation — adjusted for inflation. A decade ago, median income for men in their 30s was $32,901, 5% higher than 30 years earlier. Ms. Sawhill said she isn’t sure why men’s wages have stagnated. “It seems there’s been some slowdown in economic growth, it’s possible that the movement of women into the labor force has affected male earnings, and it’s possible that men are not working as hard as they used to.”

“The expectation that each generation will do better than their parents has become a fundamental part of what we call ‘The American Dream,’” said Morton. “But this new analysis suggests this bedrock belief may be shifting under our feet.”

You can find many other articles that will confirm it and not only for men in their 30s.

I agree with you about what we want to have compared to other generations. But the incomes of different generations adjusted to inflation are statistical facts.

I am sure one can make less and be very happy, but that is beside our point of argument.

Being happy in itself, however, is the point.

 

[ruff]

Frederick:

A little bird tells me that even if the Pope said it with an authenticated and signed letter from Jesus christ, you will not be persuaded.
I give up.
You are right.
We are much better.

What was I thinking!?

Now both husband and wife have to work to bring home the same money that one bread earner used to bring home by himself/herself.

You got me persuaded. We are better.

And since we have so much money lets dump some more in Iraq (which unlike the U.S. is running a surplus.)
I am sure that eventually it will trickle down to us over here.

Bismilla.

 

[ruff]

Frederick:
Not mad at all.
Just having some verbal fun.

Hey, I agree, they are way over rated.
Personally, I think Bob Dylan is the real thing.

Did not get this: "supporting a causal relationship would be even better."

If you tell me what that means it will improve my plight. :roll:

 

[cu]

greenie im not crankey ya prick
but i do come from a country who,s greatest export was it,s young people
a country crippled by dishonest goverment that told it,s people the same bs that came from bush
...trust me i know whats best for the man on the street and the country.... the same lines that mccain and palin are giving you now
and they used our troubles in the north of Ireland as scare tactics for 30 years

but then we did take a chance on a new style of goverment that wanted and knew it had to change the way Ireland did business with the world within 8 years we where a member of the g8 (im sure that means nil to a lot of people ) but for a country with a pop of just 4mil that is a big deal ( im sure england was sick)
when i came here i sold my house in Ireland for 19,500 punt,s(irish pounds)
last time i was home 3years ago the same house was worth 79,000 euros (just under 100,000 punts)
fewer irish then ever are coming here(jimmy says thank god) and more are going back home(marty says thank god)
your biggest import of people now are from china and india into high tech jobs, they say on avg 6years and bring home what they learn here....the same places that takes a lot of jobs from here...and your training the owners and supervisors here

McCain has been in dc over 20years with no change
palin....i feel is a wrong one..something iffy about her
and no i dont think obama is god sent....but a bit better then macker
to me they are all a shower of shites

if you did not take a chance on change you would not have greenglides


this must be my longest rant ever

 

[Steve in Omaha]

-"Both the Wall Street Journal and CNN Money recently ran articles about a new study that concluded that American men in their 30s are earning less than their father’s generation after adjusting for inflation.

Probably a true statement. I will assume so, however the quality of life today can be far far superior. The information age, so many many things at your finger tips. The house and car of today barely resemble those of old. Our old people are getting body parts replaced at unrepresented rates vs getting planted, in part paid for by those said 30 year old's. Don't know about you, but i grew up without air conditioning and color tv, and we had one dial phone on the living room wall. One reason the average may be lower today is the huge dropout rate of students today. No education = no money, this will drop the average very quickly.

 

[WISE]

If you ever noticed, since Reagan became president, a smaller and smaller percentage of the population in the U.S. controls more and more of the wealth?

United States of America (Press Release) October 9, 2007 -- Houston, Texas (ActionAmerica.org) October 10, 2007 – Last Thursday, the IRS very quietly released their annual Tax Collections Data by Percentile. As in previous years, this report totally dispels the popular myth that the rich don’t pay tax. This collections report, broken down by income category or “percentiles,” shows that while the top earning five percent of income earners only earn just over a third (36%) of all income, they pay almost two-thirds (60%) of the tax that is actually collected.


so the top 5% pay 60% of the taxes and earn 36% of all income.

Mike,
60% on their taxable income.
That is after all the tax shelters have been deducted. And boy do they find tax shelters.
Yes it is all legal.
And boy are all those special interest lobbyist well funded.

Good lord, no wonder you like Obama...reading comprehension is not a strong suit.

It is NOT 60% on their taxable income. The top 5% of all wage earners pay 60% of all the income taxes collected. The bottom 50% of all wage earners pay 3% of all taxes collected.

In other words, half the people working pay 97% of all income taxes (5% of pay 60%; 45% pay 37%); the other half pay 3%. Obama has said he will cut taxes for middle and low income earners....
Problem 1. This group only pays 3% of ALL taxes collected.
Problem 2. Low income earners DO NOT pay income taxes on a Fed. level. Therefore, what Obama is really saying is he will further the redistribution of wealth.

There is nothing more Anti-American than this maniac's economic policies. Give people $1000 and tax Big Oil for it...that plan alone proves he does not have even a basic understanding of economics or how companies, large or small, operate. And then there is raising payroll taxes...that'll get the economy goin.



WISE

 

[Art Kelley]

" and the VP has 5 KIDS, that is a full time job by itself. She should of never of accepted the VP because here family will suffer in certain aspects. "

For those who like to blast Palin for accepting McCain's request to be his VP as something that will traumatize her children, just remember that Clinton set the bar very low by doinking a girl his daughter's age. Chelsea turned out alright.

"Plus McCain is soooooo old, so does he have the pulse of the nation??? Will he have a pulse in a few years???"

Does Obama have the pulse of the nation? It's wonderful that an African-American is a viable candidate for the presidency, but aside from that he is an ignorant twerp who would be paralyzed when Russia invades one of it's former holdings, or Iran fires a nuclear missile at Israel, or all the losses and gains we made in Iraq are obviated by a premature withdraw and a surrender to the enemies of democracy, real possibilities if a Carteresque pacifist is elected.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

"Does Obama have the pulse of the nation? It's wonderful that an African-American is a viable candidate for the presidency, but aside from that he is an ignorant twerp who would be paralyzed when Russia invades one of it's former holdings, or Iran fires a nuclear missile at Israel, or all the losses and gains we made in Iraq are obviated by a premature withdraw and a surrender to the enemies of democracy, real possibilities if a Carteresque pacifist is elected".[/quote]



In my opinion, yeah I do think Obama is more in touch with the heartbeat of America. I think Obama will make the right choices when faced with world issues and conflicts. This is what I was talking about living in fear. I think Bush and McCain has and will keep this country living in fear of what might happen and stray away from real American issues, like school, health ect.
Lets be honest Iraq was NOT a clear and present danger. If we were ridding the world of terroist then why stop there, why not go into Iran or Dufar too? We invaded Iraq because we knew we could overthrow the power will little effort and who is benifiting from the war? Alot of companies are making millions and billions by us being there. So since they were not a current threat and we all know other countries are bigger threats and genicide is happening in Africa, then why do it? Iraq doesn't even want us there.

I do feel McCain is an extention of the Bush way of doing things and look around its not working. Bush I think has a 20% approval rating. I just think he is going to focus to much of what other countries are doing and build a wall around America so to speak, while not focusing on what the life blood of America really needs. That is what I observe from McCain.

What I ment by Pailin is that with 5 kids, a big family one will have to suffer, her job or her family and her youngest child is a special needs child. A child with special needs require more attention and care, kinda hard to squeeze that in when your the VP of the greatest country in the world in my opinion.

Honestly I think people subconscious are afraid of Barak because he is black and have the middle name of Hussien. I bet the people voting here for McCain fall in the demographic of white middle age and up.

So somehow I have Barak and McCain to choose from. There are other Americans I would love to see be president, but since these are the two I have to pick from I vote Barak. I just think he can do a better job and making America BE a better place to live and offer what Americans need the most, HOPE.

Vote for who you want, vote proud and be thankful YOU live in America.

:mrgreen: