Why Manufacturers stay away from the boards

[ronbeatty]

Larry, I paid $58,000.00 for the Vortex machines. I had some small issues early on with Blueline that I was able to work thru with help from Jim Pemberton. When the blower issues started I had very little help from Blueline and had to rely on Tuthill's authorized service provider. I did not demand new trucks, money for lost revenue etc. I just wanted the trucks fixed correctly so I could provide income for my family. I have done all the maintenance required. There is a documented design flaw in not instructing me to clean the heat exchangers, which caused the failure of the first set of blowers. I did not find this problem until the blowers where rebuilt and reinstalled. Blueline enclosed the blowers and insulated the cover, smothering the blower which is another issue in its self.
These issues should have been brought to our attention, I shouldn't have had to find them on my own. These units should have lasted me eight years. My trucks are fine, but because of the lack of any engineering on Blueline's part, does not leave me with a lot of options.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Larry, I paid $58,000.00 for the Vortex machines. I had some small issues early on with Blueline that I was able to work thru with help from Jim Pemberton. When the blower issues started I had very little help from Blueline and had to rely on Tuthill's authorized service provider. I did not demand new trucks, money for lost revenue etc. I just wanted the trucks fixed correctly so I could provide income for my family. I have done all the maintenance required. There is a documented design flaw in not instructing me to clean the heat exchangers, which caused the failure of the first set of blowers. I did not find this problem until the blowers where rebuilt and reinstalled. Blueline enclosed the blowers and insulated the cover, smothering the blower which is another issue in its self.
These issues should have been brought to our attention, I shouldn't have had to find them on my own. These units should have lasted me eight years. My trucks are fine, but because of the lack of any engineering on Blueline's part, does not leave me with a lot of options.

I understand Ron
and I SINCERELY hope you get things squared away with as little cost and headache as possible.
I think we can all agree instruction/maintenance/care manuals should be as detailed as possible.
I think we can all agree too, they're often not ...regardless of the mouse trap

I'm just the doing the "hypothetical" thingie with Harper in my last post

I really do wish you well


..L.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

ronbeatty wrote:
Jim, That leg was manufactured by Blueline in place of the factory leg from Tuthill.



ronbeatty wrote:
Mike, The legs are the factory original legs. At this time I am not having legs fabricated without some input from an engineer.

Ron, you got me confused here with these two statements

 

[joe harper]

The only way that this discussion can CONTINUE....is hypothetically...!

:

oakie doakie then
I'm not sure i want to...but lets continue.
cause I think there CAN be a very constructive debate. and it doesn't even have to involve TMs.
It can be any tool or piece of equipment, be it a weed eater or a well drilling machine

Our hypothetical debate can be about materials, engineering and assy of a mouse trap (MT) and the responsibility/expectations of the manufactures of MT's

To remove a critical variable, we'll assume that end user performs all scheduled maintenance and is using MT within specifications .

There are a number of MT makers all claiming to build a better MT
Prices and options vary as well as designs

MT builder A makes a simple MT that's been around for years and has a proven record
MT builder B builds another MT that's constantly changing from year to year... from MT to MT even.

when the warranty is up, how long is the MT builder to bare financially responsibility for poor engineering/lack of R&D ?

After the warranty is up, at what point does the buyer bare responsibility for buying a poorly engineered and unproven MT ?

..L.T.A.

The MT builder should have no financial responsibility to the buyer after the specific
warranty has expired...

However if the MT builder has NOT corrected a issue, while the MT was under warranty...
The warranty is extended UNTIL the original issue is corrected...

For example...This NEW fancy ..MT in question has a component that has repeatedly FAILED
while under normal use...every time the MT builder "replaces" this component...That component shall bare a NEW full warranty..Which in effect..EXTENDS the warranty...!

At some point..the MT component will say "ENOUGH"..."Our MT component is FAILING.."
Due to the MT builder's application or DESIGN...!!!! At this point the buyer has NO choice
but to seek LEGAL representation to seek damages against the MT builder..!

The buyer of the MT...entered into the purchase with "clean hands"..and has a reasonable
expectation of receiving a warrantied MT...

If the MT builder...cannot deliver a MT that meets those reasonable expectations...They "may"
be considered "by law" to have entered into the agreement with "un-clean hands"...!

Ps If the NEW MT builder has purchased this MT company from a prior entity...with the
intention to discontinue the specific MT purchased...! This may be considered an act of
piracy..."Which is fine"...AS LONG AS THEY...maintain parts & service for a specified REASONABLE amount of time...!

If it is PROVEN in a court of law that "This was always the intention NEW Mt company"
You could here the term..."CLASS ACTION... :shock:

The NEW builder ...changed the patent of the previous MT & BRANDED it under their NAME...and NOW shall mitigate ALL damages to the MT buyer...and MAKE THEM WHOLE..!

 

[KevinL]

Case closed.

 

[ronbeatty]

Mike, I corrected that post. I meant Blueline factory legs.

 

[Johnny]

Good Morning
Every couple of months someone will post the question on this board as to why manufacturers don't participate on the boards, well what's going on right now an excellent example. People go on the boards to take their "case" to the court of public opinion where they can present their side of the story without any concern about being challenged on the accuracy. We have tried in the past to share our company's position in some of these cases only to have our openness twisted around. It seems that there is a growing trend which I personally find disappointing for individuals to take issues into these arenas in a effort to embarrass and harass companies into fixing problems that they do not feel responsible for. It's an easy avenue actually, if any manufacturer took on a cleaner in this industry in the manner that cleaners seem to feel they can attack manufacturers the "war" would be on forever. For this reason we have decided not to participate in any thread of this nature. We will of course continue to support all of our products at the highest level in the industry and assist people when we can in improving their business. Because we feel this board and others could be used in an constructive manner to improve the industry.
This will be the only comment we will make on this subject, our best for the New Year.

Yea, you never see Les Jones on this board.

OBAMALOGIC!

 

[Rob Allen]

Accountability scares many away. Instead of using it as an opportunity to shine they turn and leave. Shame. I welcome and encourage my customers to let us now if they are unhappy. We call and write all of our customers. If they are unhappy I jump on the chance to make them happy. Even though I don't work in field anymore many times I will take the back up truck and go make the customer happy with a 99.9% satisfaction rate. This type of service builds lifetime customers.

 

[Mikey P]

Rob have you ever fired a customer?

 

[Royal Man]

I think he mainly sticks to firing posters

 

[Rob Allen]

Rob have you ever fired a customer?

Rarely. Usually I just offer these type their money back and tell them I hope they can find a company that makes them happy.

 

[bob vawter]

Accountability scares many away. Instead of using it as an opportunity to shine they turn and leave. Shame. I welcome and encourage my customers to let us now if they are unhappy. We call and write all of our customers. If they are unhappy I jump on the chance to make them happy. Even though I don't work in field anymore many times I will take the back up truck and go make the customer happy with a 99.9% satisfaction rate. This type of service builds lifetime customers.

Rob..what do you think of my brand new Genies....?

 

[steve g]

I have a customer that called me out to clean her carpets, I told her I didn't think they would come that clean, so she wanted it done anyways, I cleaned them and sure enough they looked terrible when I was done. I flat out refused any sort of money for the job. This lead to her recommending another customer to me as well as selling them carpet and using me for a water damage job they had. That simple free job, paid off in so many spades I can't even tell you. These people will use me no water what their insurance company says if they have a loss again. and without question on the carpet cleaning. I believe if you take it in the shorts and do the right thing it will come back to you.

a company like mytee can blow through 600k fighting harris research but a company many times that size can't even pony up and fix the problem machines they sold, vortex may be no more, but I bet the front panel on the machine says vortex a blueline company. someone should ask tom fielding why on earth did they use that stupid blower HX design. its almost like they wanted to make the machine a slide in that was powered by the van.

 

[Burtz]

did a blue line vortex run over your puppy or something

 

[Mikey P]

Bill never told me about who you asked to come testify Shawn
It was the one guy you asked who told you no.

As it turns out they did indeed waste their time so who was being the better friend, me or you?

Chris and Ron did not help your rediculous case that the Vortex was killed by a internet forum and I'll bet 250 bucks you never actually paid them for their time and travle.

What other lies would you like to clear up today?

 

[Art Kelley]

Wow. Shawn really needs a day job. What a terrible waste of energy suing carpet cleaners who post their thoughts on a message board. I really appreciated how he threatened me in an IM for posting my thoughts :


August 8, 2010Shawn Lorenzo YorkGood Morning...Let me give you the heads up on what you are really dealing with here MR. Kelly;

Think along the lines of what you would do to any guy who started spouting off like you and Mike are - but in your local newspaper in front of all your customers - and about your carpet cleaning business and your character. Now imagine how much business you have lost and may continue to lose if you don't put a stop to it.

Got the picture? Good. That's EXACTLY what I am about to do to YOU.

If I ever log on to the internet and see your name next to my name or my company name ever again I will ******* CRUCIFY you Art. You have 24 hours to start taking everything down. (Don't forget your recent Facebook post.)

Im not gunna play around with you for one God-damned minute. Send me an email that says you removed every Vortex or Shawn York thread you have ever made and that you wont EVER mention me or my company again within 4 business days.

I am on a mission to make an example of Mr. Palliotet for every manufacturer and supplier in this entire industry. You DO NOT want to be sitting next to Mr. Palliotet when this train wreck happens. I promise you.

If you think I'm blowing smoke, TRY ME. I'm on a mission right now to make examples out of assholes like you.

 

[Mikey P]

People who I considered friends got ONE phone call from me telling them that they were wasting their time.

Not much trouble at all and I was right.

Why did you go through so much troble trying to convince the arbitrator that an online community could sustain a company perpetually ?

Nor a single company in this industry could survive off just Mikey Boarder sales.
You are a severely delusional man Shawn, I suugest you seek help out side of your bong.

 

[Jim Martin]

Are you claiming here that Bill Bruders never gave you one name from the witness list Mikey?

Shawn........I did.....right after you called me I thought about it for awhile and I called Mike.....I talked to him about what was going on and I rattled off names....

If someone was going to attempt to involve me in something then I want to know both sides.....even after talking with Mike it was apparent that there was more going on then what I cared to involve myself into.....to many un-answered questions...

 

[Mikey P]

Thanks for clearing that up Jim.



I believe Ron Beatty was also asked by Shawn and turned him down.



Sapphire has kept me out of the legal loop as much as possible. Only on a need to know basis.
Smart move as I talk to far too many people and can't keep all the stories straight.

In fact it was Shawn himself who gave me access to the complete court files/transcripts. The few people that I showed the documents too were in shock over how bad Shawn presented his (non existent) case.

 

[Willy P]

STFU YORKIE



y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDo-PK_wDgQy]

 

[Bob Foster]

Geeze Shawn, there isn't a single entrepreneur who hasn't been disappointed SEVERAL times by circumstances on the way to where they are going.

You're taking the better part of 5 years to get your shit together and all this self-defeating negative energy you keep putting yourself through is stopping you from getting ahead.

You know you have it in you to do it because you've already done it at least once so now go out and do it again. It's that simple.

 

[Mikey P]

no kidding


Either take YOUR Vortex company and do something with it or get off the pot already.


Spending another 2 years on some dude's couch hoping yet another judge finally sees it your way is such a waste of precious life.


Move on Shawn, you are not getting any younger.

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

I know I'll get smacked for this but I'm wondering how many of us know that Cleanco in Canada has been installing their PTO in cab forward trucks for a long time now. They use the 59 blower and dual (quad) heat exchangers they've used for years and years. You can even throw in the blower heat exchanger. And, they use an old school mechanical PTO gear box attached to the transmission with 4 v-belts coming up through the truck bed. You bring the truck to them (from the US) and they install in less then a week.

 

[Chris A]

That is interesting

 

[idreadnought]

I hate to say this but these machines are not rocket science. The number one thing that will damage a blower is excessive heat (and of course lack of lubrication). The number one cause of excesive heat is restrictions in airflow. Solve that problem and the angle the blower sits will not be an issue. As far as the heat exchanger is concerned. Have one manufactured. Again these are not rocket sceince. You have too much money invested to let a machine sit around and you will lose too much money in lost production if you don't address the issue and fix it with or without manufacture support.

 

[floorguy]

My question is,

for most of this, it was a dead/non issue.....

yet you come back on the board and stir the shit in the bottom of the pot????

for what??

sympathy???

on this board???