harryhides
Member
Darrel L - I'm confused.
I need an explanation, please!
What is the need for a 2" tubed wand with no 1 1/2" lead hose.
I keep reading how everyone says that you get better vacuum because of less air restriction.
But here is why I'm confused.
Everyone talks about how they get better vacuum and dry times when they restrict the amount of air flow at the end of a wand with a glide.
Wouldn't the same principle work to increase the airflow when going from 2" hose down to a 1 1/2" tubed wand.
Please help me understand where I'm getting this wrong or right!
The Cleaning Artist - My reason is so I can pull the wand easier and for many more sqft per day. The other attributes is faster drying carpets, less wicking for those that have the problem and it really helps the smaller blower machines.
The glide restriction is at the carpet surface which causes a higher velocity of air to enter the wand of which pulles more moisture with it. The glide in most cases will not seal to the carpet so that your cfm remains higher.
Lift is the real power!
mikey p - The magic seems to happen when the air is choked down right at the wand orifice.
It's kind of hard to figure out in your head and probably on paper unless your last name is FORSYTHE.
Besides the air going further into the pile it also makes multiple dry strokes just so damn easy...
Not to mention the other benefits of:
Non marking on base boards and transistions areas to wood and tile.
Less over wetting with jets properly adjusted to strike the the glide's edge.
Adds years of life to your lower back, neck and shoulders.
Ease of wanding on small rugs.
Gentle on damged pile and seams
Great for fringe cleaning
Darrel L - What about the size of the wand. Does the smaller tubing then work to increase lift. I understand the ease of wanding with a glide, Im just trying to figure out the airflow thing.
Greenie - You want raw airflow all the way, until you hit fiber, then you need the lift to spike, and airflow to drop some....it's just magic.
The Cleaning Artist - the smaller tube will restrict the cfm of the machine at that piont. At the cleaning head your getting even less.
Albert Lazo - I don't understand how it works but turning my 1 1/2 rx to 2 all the way to the vacuum heads increased vac considerably.
Darrel L - So if this is how it works, why dont wand manufactures just seal the wand end except for a few small slots or a line of small holes. Wouldn't this accomplish the same thing.
They could even make the thing open up somehow so we could unplug any debrie or hair buildup.
If so couldnt that beat the ChemWho lawsuit, and give us all the performance we are looking for?
steve g - imgaine a crevice tool that focues the vacuum on one spot, right at the end, this is creating a much faster airflow point, meaning its more prone to suck things in near or around the end of the crevice tool, but what would happen if you placed the crevice tool inside the vacuum hose 50ft back from the end of the hose?? you would get much less air flow, and with that less velocity when the restriction happens. also depending on how your glide fits it may be a little loose on the wand head and leak a bit, most machines have a vac relief, well instead of releaving at the machine some of the air is relieved at the wand head, common sense says this will work much better
Darrel L - Thanks for the great explanation Steve G. That really helps.
Jimmy Ladwig! - Two holes drilled on the ends of my castex wand solved the lock down .
They are breather holes and my wand glides fine with out a expensive piece of plastic on the bottom. Laughing
Ken Harris - Well, I have covered this topic many times before, but never here, so here goes. I will try to avoid being too technical except where I believe it necessary to explain my point properly:
Airflow(cfm) is what causes cleaning to be effective or not.All airflow is created by there being a differential of pressure between the air on the outside of the wand cleaning head, and the presure on the inside of the cleaning head of the wand. This is where lift comes in. The greater the lift your vacuum blower can generate, the greater the difference becomes between the pressure inside the wand head and the outside atmosheric pressure. The problem of too much lift on a wand that has no glide on it is that the pressure on the wand pushes the steel lips of the wand hard into the carpet back, causing great restriction of airflow. The airflow that was above 200 cfms when the wand was not locked to the carpet, may drop to as low as 50 cfms when that wand locks down onto a damp carpet.Lift inside the wand may be as high as 14"HG or more, but not enough air(cfm)flow can make it threw this critical area of restriction. If the airflow falls off to under 8000 ft/min or less, the water/soil mix you extract out of the carpet will fall out of the airflow and puddle in the hose instead, producing poor cleaning performance.In addition to the wand being hard to push and tiring to you, the carpet will take longer to dry and your rate of cleaning will be slower.
What a glide does is retore the balance between the cfm and the lift to a better relationship, so that you get superior cleaning. Because the glide has a large round radius, as compared to the small round radius of the wands steel lips, it can't lock down on the carpet and restrict airflow to the same degree that an unglided wand can.The net effect is that the cfm with the glided wand on the wet carpet is still able to flow over 100 cfms in operation. The lift will be slightly lower at 12" to 13" HG because the greater airflow, but at least the vacuum release in your vacuum tank is not relieving the airflow and wasting as much as before. The round shape of the glide and the low co-efficient of friction that teflon has allows you to clean better & faster. It is not unusaul for cleaning speeds to increase 20 to 30% which leaving carpets cleaner & dryer. The effort to move the wand is often 60 to 80% less depending on carpet type & equipment used.
If you want to fine tune your cleaning beyond this, it is not that hard to do. Those wanting the easiest pushing wand should pick a holed face on the glide. The reason that this is the easiest to push is because this design allows the greatest amount of contact between the carpet and the surface area of the teflon glide. The water on the carpet's face fibers rides on the increased surface area of the glide and reduces friction per square inch of glide area. The holes will also give you the fastest dry times as well. This is because the act of forcing the air into them causes the speed of air going through to increase. The higher velocity draws more water off the face fibers than is possible with the lesser velocity that a slot operates at. The downside is that aggitation to the fibers is reduced as well, so if you did not properly vacuum the carpet and pre-aggitate the fibers with a pre-conditioner on heavily soiled carpeting, you will be leaving some debrie behind. This type of glide forces you to be a better cleaner on your jobs.
On the other hand, the slotted glides have many supporters as well. These glides flow even more cfms than the hole type, and run the lift a bit lower as well. They will not dry carpets as well as the holed glide will, but are more forgiving if a less than perfect vacuum job is done, or if the carpet contains much above normal debrie. Many cleaners unfortunatly fall into the not vacuum properly catagory, which probably explaines why this is the most popular glide type sold these days. If you op to use the lip glides, this is the only type of opening you can do as the lips fit exactly on the existing steel lips.
For those that want some of the both characteristics that holed glides and slotted glides possess, there is a third choice that is available now. That is the Hybrid glides.They have holes and slots on their facing. Easier to push than a slotted glide and faster drying, they are a good choice for those that give equal weight to easy to push with increased aggitation over that of the holed glide. If you are only going to have one type for your wand, this may be a good choice. My personal preferance is a holed glide on one wand for the lightly to medium soiled carpets, and a set of Ultralip glides on a second wand for the nasty carpets, or those with a fair amount of dog or cat hair in them. That works better there.
harryhides - For those of you that don't know about Ken's track record just be aware that he has never had a problem with making up "facts and figures" without any scientific studies to back them up. Also notice the weasel words that he inserts in to these pontifications:
The round shape of the glide and the low co-efficient of friction that teflon has allows you to clean better and faster. It is not unusual for cleaning speeds to increase 20 to 30% which leaving carpets cleaner and dryer. The effort to move the wand is often 60 to 80% less depending on carpet type and equipment used.
And we all know about Kens emminently scientic definition of a dry carpet - does it pass the "toilet paper" test.
Ken Harris - Well Harry, while I do thank you for your comments, the qualifiers that I put in there I thought were needed, because we are not dealing in absolutes here. There are too many variables when it comes to both equipment and carpet types out there to state it as absolute fact in all instances and occasions. I wanted the statement to be as honest as posibble, so I did pre-qualify it a bit. But for the vast majority of users of the product, it is just as described.No BS on this board from me. I may have played fast and loose with the facts in the past for entertainment purposes, but those days are behind me now. These days I restrict my posting to a factual nature. I know that will not be welcome news to some, but that is how it is. But I appreciate your comments anyways.
High heat/flow guy - Ken - harryhides said: "For those of you that don't know about Ken's track record just be aware that he has never had a problem with making up "facts and figures" without any scientific studies to back them up."
To that you respond: "These days I restrict my posting to a factual nature."
What scientific studies (facts) do you have to show "It is not unusual for cleaning speeds to increase 20 to 30% which leaving carpets cleaner and dryer. The effort to move the wand is often 60 to 80% less depending on carpet type and equipment used."?
Ken Harris - The figures used to denote decreased wanding effort and otherwise were what I observe from my own testing in my business here in Calgary. I do not consider them very scientific at all and have never claimed otherwise. But I do consider them roughly equivalent to what others would obtain in their operations as well. Thousands of hours talking on the phone to purchasers of my glides tells me that most users experience the same thing and bears out my observations.Very scientific method? No not at all, but sometimes hearing confirmation from those "on the ground" is all you need to form a solid opinion as to the perform of a product.
BrianE - I question the slot glides flowing slightly more air than holes as they tend to lock down with large blowers. I think they only flow more air when they are off the carpet. Brian E
Ken Harris - Brian:
Larry Cobb has tested this as well with the equipment he uses, and it tests the same way with a 4M Sutorbuilt blower set at 16" HG. But there is some validity to what you say at higher lift levels than this. When I tested the hole glides on a vortex set at 18"HG back in the summer of 2003, they did flow air as well as the slotted glides did. But at lower lift levels than 15" HG, the slots outflow the hole glides to to their greater restriction of the slotted openning on the wands.
I need an explanation, please!
What is the need for a 2" tubed wand with no 1 1/2" lead hose.
I keep reading how everyone says that you get better vacuum because of less air restriction.
But here is why I'm confused.
Everyone talks about how they get better vacuum and dry times when they restrict the amount of air flow at the end of a wand with a glide.
Wouldn't the same principle work to increase the airflow when going from 2" hose down to a 1 1/2" tubed wand.
Please help me understand where I'm getting this wrong or right!
The Cleaning Artist - My reason is so I can pull the wand easier and for many more sqft per day. The other attributes is faster drying carpets, less wicking for those that have the problem and it really helps the smaller blower machines.
The glide restriction is at the carpet surface which causes a higher velocity of air to enter the wand of which pulles more moisture with it. The glide in most cases will not seal to the carpet so that your cfm remains higher.
Lift is the real power!
mikey p - The magic seems to happen when the air is choked down right at the wand orifice.
It's kind of hard to figure out in your head and probably on paper unless your last name is FORSYTHE.
Besides the air going further into the pile it also makes multiple dry strokes just so damn easy...
Not to mention the other benefits of:
Non marking on base boards and transistions areas to wood and tile.
Less over wetting with jets properly adjusted to strike the the glide's edge.
Adds years of life to your lower back, neck and shoulders.
Ease of wanding on small rugs.
Gentle on damged pile and seams
Great for fringe cleaning
Darrel L - What about the size of the wand. Does the smaller tubing then work to increase lift. I understand the ease of wanding with a glide, Im just trying to figure out the airflow thing.
Greenie - You want raw airflow all the way, until you hit fiber, then you need the lift to spike, and airflow to drop some....it's just magic.
The Cleaning Artist - the smaller tube will restrict the cfm of the machine at that piont. At the cleaning head your getting even less.
Albert Lazo - I don't understand how it works but turning my 1 1/2 rx to 2 all the way to the vacuum heads increased vac considerably.
Darrel L - So if this is how it works, why dont wand manufactures just seal the wand end except for a few small slots or a line of small holes. Wouldn't this accomplish the same thing.
They could even make the thing open up somehow so we could unplug any debrie or hair buildup.
If so couldnt that beat the ChemWho lawsuit, and give us all the performance we are looking for?
steve g - imgaine a crevice tool that focues the vacuum on one spot, right at the end, this is creating a much faster airflow point, meaning its more prone to suck things in near or around the end of the crevice tool, but what would happen if you placed the crevice tool inside the vacuum hose 50ft back from the end of the hose?? you would get much less air flow, and with that less velocity when the restriction happens. also depending on how your glide fits it may be a little loose on the wand head and leak a bit, most machines have a vac relief, well instead of releaving at the machine some of the air is relieved at the wand head, common sense says this will work much better
Darrel L - Thanks for the great explanation Steve G. That really helps.
Jimmy Ladwig! - Two holes drilled on the ends of my castex wand solved the lock down .
They are breather holes and my wand glides fine with out a expensive piece of plastic on the bottom. Laughing
Ken Harris - Well, I have covered this topic many times before, but never here, so here goes. I will try to avoid being too technical except where I believe it necessary to explain my point properly:
Airflow(cfm) is what causes cleaning to be effective or not.All airflow is created by there being a differential of pressure between the air on the outside of the wand cleaning head, and the presure on the inside of the cleaning head of the wand. This is where lift comes in. The greater the lift your vacuum blower can generate, the greater the difference becomes between the pressure inside the wand head and the outside atmosheric pressure. The problem of too much lift on a wand that has no glide on it is that the pressure on the wand pushes the steel lips of the wand hard into the carpet back, causing great restriction of airflow. The airflow that was above 200 cfms when the wand was not locked to the carpet, may drop to as low as 50 cfms when that wand locks down onto a damp carpet.Lift inside the wand may be as high as 14"HG or more, but not enough air(cfm)flow can make it threw this critical area of restriction. If the airflow falls off to under 8000 ft/min or less, the water/soil mix you extract out of the carpet will fall out of the airflow and puddle in the hose instead, producing poor cleaning performance.In addition to the wand being hard to push and tiring to you, the carpet will take longer to dry and your rate of cleaning will be slower.
What a glide does is retore the balance between the cfm and the lift to a better relationship, so that you get superior cleaning. Because the glide has a large round radius, as compared to the small round radius of the wands steel lips, it can't lock down on the carpet and restrict airflow to the same degree that an unglided wand can.The net effect is that the cfm with the glided wand on the wet carpet is still able to flow over 100 cfms in operation. The lift will be slightly lower at 12" to 13" HG because the greater airflow, but at least the vacuum release in your vacuum tank is not relieving the airflow and wasting as much as before. The round shape of the glide and the low co-efficient of friction that teflon has allows you to clean better & faster. It is not unusaul for cleaning speeds to increase 20 to 30% which leaving carpets cleaner & dryer. The effort to move the wand is often 60 to 80% less depending on carpet type & equipment used.
If you want to fine tune your cleaning beyond this, it is not that hard to do. Those wanting the easiest pushing wand should pick a holed face on the glide. The reason that this is the easiest to push is because this design allows the greatest amount of contact between the carpet and the surface area of the teflon glide. The water on the carpet's face fibers rides on the increased surface area of the glide and reduces friction per square inch of glide area. The holes will also give you the fastest dry times as well. This is because the act of forcing the air into them causes the speed of air going through to increase. The higher velocity draws more water off the face fibers than is possible with the lesser velocity that a slot operates at. The downside is that aggitation to the fibers is reduced as well, so if you did not properly vacuum the carpet and pre-aggitate the fibers with a pre-conditioner on heavily soiled carpeting, you will be leaving some debrie behind. This type of glide forces you to be a better cleaner on your jobs.
On the other hand, the slotted glides have many supporters as well. These glides flow even more cfms than the hole type, and run the lift a bit lower as well. They will not dry carpets as well as the holed glide will, but are more forgiving if a less than perfect vacuum job is done, or if the carpet contains much above normal debrie. Many cleaners unfortunatly fall into the not vacuum properly catagory, which probably explaines why this is the most popular glide type sold these days. If you op to use the lip glides, this is the only type of opening you can do as the lips fit exactly on the existing steel lips.
For those that want some of the both characteristics that holed glides and slotted glides possess, there is a third choice that is available now. That is the Hybrid glides.They have holes and slots on their facing. Easier to push than a slotted glide and faster drying, they are a good choice for those that give equal weight to easy to push with increased aggitation over that of the holed glide. If you are only going to have one type for your wand, this may be a good choice. My personal preferance is a holed glide on one wand for the lightly to medium soiled carpets, and a set of Ultralip glides on a second wand for the nasty carpets, or those with a fair amount of dog or cat hair in them. That works better there.
harryhides - For those of you that don't know about Ken's track record just be aware that he has never had a problem with making up "facts and figures" without any scientific studies to back them up. Also notice the weasel words that he inserts in to these pontifications:
The round shape of the glide and the low co-efficient of friction that teflon has allows you to clean better and faster. It is not unusual for cleaning speeds to increase 20 to 30% which leaving carpets cleaner and dryer. The effort to move the wand is often 60 to 80% less depending on carpet type and equipment used.
And we all know about Kens emminently scientic definition of a dry carpet - does it pass the "toilet paper" test.
Ken Harris - Well Harry, while I do thank you for your comments, the qualifiers that I put in there I thought were needed, because we are not dealing in absolutes here. There are too many variables when it comes to both equipment and carpet types out there to state it as absolute fact in all instances and occasions. I wanted the statement to be as honest as posibble, so I did pre-qualify it a bit. But for the vast majority of users of the product, it is just as described.No BS on this board from me. I may have played fast and loose with the facts in the past for entertainment purposes, but those days are behind me now. These days I restrict my posting to a factual nature. I know that will not be welcome news to some, but that is how it is. But I appreciate your comments anyways.
High heat/flow guy - Ken - harryhides said: "For those of you that don't know about Ken's track record just be aware that he has never had a problem with making up "facts and figures" without any scientific studies to back them up."
To that you respond: "These days I restrict my posting to a factual nature."
What scientific studies (facts) do you have to show "It is not unusual for cleaning speeds to increase 20 to 30% which leaving carpets cleaner and dryer. The effort to move the wand is often 60 to 80% less depending on carpet type and equipment used."?
Ken Harris - The figures used to denote decreased wanding effort and otherwise were what I observe from my own testing in my business here in Calgary. I do not consider them very scientific at all and have never claimed otherwise. But I do consider them roughly equivalent to what others would obtain in their operations as well. Thousands of hours talking on the phone to purchasers of my glides tells me that most users experience the same thing and bears out my observations.Very scientific method? No not at all, but sometimes hearing confirmation from those "on the ground" is all you need to form a solid opinion as to the perform of a product.
BrianE - I question the slot glides flowing slightly more air than holes as they tend to lock down with large blowers. I think they only flow more air when they are off the carpet. Brian E
Ken Harris - Brian:
Larry Cobb has tested this as well with the equipment he uses, and it tests the same way with a 4M Sutorbuilt blower set at 16" HG. But there is some validity to what you say at higher lift levels than this. When I tested the hole glides on a vortex set at 18"HG back in the summer of 2003, they did flow air as well as the slotted glides did. But at lower lift levels than 15" HG, the slots outflow the hole glides to to their greater restriction of the slotted openning on the wands.
