Why rugs aren't cleaned in the home...

[Ken Snow]

Ofer- with due respect back Lisa can't be speaking from a good place of knowledge because she is not an on location cleaner and I can't because I am and because I have a large company? I hear that you want to disagree with someone who has a different opinion than you and I get that. I often defend my opinion and sometimes without opening my mind to the others perspective (not saying that you are doing that but may be something to consider for yourself).

Yes, we can clean carpet and rugs for less than many choose to and make money still~but I don't know what that has to do with being able to convince clients to let the rugs leave their home or not. Like I said if we can clean in 40,000 homes and convince 99.94% to let us clean them in our Rug Spa then I would think anyone could do that if they believe they can. Actually you have the advantage as an owner operator of BEING the one doing the convincing, where I am never the one and always relying on my employees and my marketing to do it.

Ken
Ps As for being an owner operator, I have nothing but respect for OOs but definitely hope I do not need to be one.

 

[ruff]

1) I'm just curious if you did not offer an "option" - what change would you see. Especially when repeat clients see the true difference in the cleaning quality.

2) And BTW - if Ken was simply a "volume" person of a big company so "detached" from your reality... it seems that he'd want to clean rugs in-home to save time to do a quick spray and suck and collect and get out of Dodge. Washing in-plant certainly is not the lazy man's way to rug riches. =)

Lisa

1) That's easy, I've done it for years. I used not to offer on location rug cleaning at all.
Answer: Substantial drop in business. Some people are just not willing to pay the $$$ required for in plant cleaning. Now maybe you have the zeal and skill of the rug evangelist to convert those people, great.
Those that are not willing to plunk the $$$ (and get real Lisa, some won't) if I refuse to do it, I will be opening the door to a competitor that will.

2) In Ken's case and yes his high volume (it is not a bad or a derogatory term, it is a fact. Notice, I did not say low quality.) I suspect there is not much of a price difference for him between on location and in plant. It may even be that with his two men on location crews, in plant might be faster and less costly for him. And the added bonus for him and his clients (though I suspect Ken has only 'customers' ) will be a much better cleaning.

This is not comparing on location to in plant cleaning, this is about being realistic about what clients are willing to pay.

Here is an example of not living in our market place: I emailed you a suggestion about one of your articles about urine stains on area rugs. (And I really like your blog and your articles, they are like a free mini university for me.) I suggested that you advise them to insert a piece of plastic between the floor and the rug, while spotting the stain to protect the wood floor from water damage. Your response was (and this is a copy): "I've not seen urine be able to penetrate the Durahold pads, because of the thickness."
Lisa, most clients have cheaper pads under their rugs and some have no pads at all. You need to go to people's home more frequently.

Yes, I know, I am the expert and that is a golden opportunity to sell them a quality pad that will really......................

Shall I refuse to take their rugs for in plant cleaning till they buy good pads?

 

[ruff]

Ofer- with due respect back Lisa can't be speaking from a good place of knowledge because she is not an on location cleaner and I can't because I am and because I have a large company? I hear that you want to disagree with someone who has a different opinion than you and I get that. I often defend my opinion and sometimes without opening my mind to the others perspective (not saying that you are doing that but may be something to consider for yourself).

Yes, we can clean carpet and rugs for less than many choose to and make money still~but I don't know what that has to do with being able to convince clients to let the rugs leave their home or not. Like I said if we can clean in 40,000 homes and convince 99.94% to let us clean them in our Rug Spa then I would think anyone could do that if they believe they can. Actually you have the advantage as an owner operator of BEING the one doing the convincing, where I am never the one and always relying on my employees and my marketing to do it.

Ken
Ps As for being an owner operator, I have nothing but respect for OOs but definitely hope I do not need to be one.

Ken,
With the same due respect and more

Your technicians can offer in plant cleaning at such ridiculously low prices that it is a no brainer for the client.
The rest of us pedestrians can not. That is our reality. Maybe you can relate.

I have no problem opening my mind to other opinions and options.
Do you?

I always advise my clients what is best for them, not for me. However I do know the realities. Your particular one in this case is not what we come across on a daily basis.
We have to adjust to what the clients wants, advise them on what is right and or best for them, and provide them with solutions that they both need and are acceptable for them.

 

[Ken Snow]

Ofer- with due respect back Lisa can't be speaking from a good place of knowledge because she is not an on location cleaner and I can't because I am and because I have a large company? I hear that you want to disagree with someone who has a different opinion than you and I get that. I often defend my opinion and sometimes without opening my mind to the others perspective (not saying that you are doing that but may be something to consider for yourself).

Yes, we can clean carpet and rugs for less than many choose to and make money still~but I don't know what that has to do with being able to convince clients to let the rugs leave their home or not. Like I said if we can clean in 40,000 homes and convince 99.94% to let us clean their rugs in our Rug Spa then I would think anyone could do that if they believe they can. Actually you have the advantage as an owner operator of BEING the one doing the convincing, where I am never the one and always relying on my employees and my marketing to do it.

Ken
Ps As for being an owner operator, I have nothing but respect for OOs but definitely hope I do not need to be one.

 

[Ken Snow]

Oops didn't mean to double post- it our office staff that does most of the customer communication about when/where to clean rugs. The 50+carpet cleaners in our market who use us to clean their customers rugs also know that they are giving their customer a better product than can be delivered in the home, and like Lisa said the thing they look at the most to judge cleaning (the fringe) is clean.

 

[Art Kelley]

, and like Lisa said the thing they look at the most to judge cleaning (the fringe) is clean.

Ah, the fringe. That is the weak link in on location rug cleaning. If there was a way to safely and effectivly clean the fringe on a rug on a customer's wood floor or wherever it is laid out, that would obviate the need for in plant cleaning and all the hassles that entails.

 

[ruff]

Ken, contact me pronto.
We carry a special set of glasses you can sell to your clients.

It will make any fringe look bright and clean.
It improves life's outlook.
It is better than Prozac and no prescription required.
it requires no fringe deteriorating solutions

Due to all it's benefits it's the practical and ethical thing to do and :shock:

 

[Ken Snow]

shiteatinggrin shiteatinggrin

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

1) I'm just curious if you did not offer an "option" - what change would you see. Especially when repeat clients see the true difference in the cleaning quality.

2) And BTW - if Ken was simply a "volume" person of a big company so "detached" from your reality... it seems that he'd want to clean rugs in-home to save time to do a quick spray and suck and collect and get out of Dodge. Washing in-plant certainly is not the lazy man's way to rug riches. =)

Lisa

1) That's easy, I've done it for years. I used not to offer on location rug cleaning at all.
Answer: Substantial drop in business. Some people are just not willing to pay the $$$ required for in plant cleaning. Now maybe you have the zeal and skill of the rug evangelist to convert those people, great.
Those that are not willing to plunk the $$$ (and get real Lisa, some won't) if I refuse to do it, I will be opening the door to a competitor that will.

2) In Ken's case and yes his high volume (it is not a bad or a derogatory term, it is a fact. Notice, I did not say low quality.) I suspect there is not much of a price difference for him between on location and in plant. It may even be that with his two men on location crews, in plant might be faster and less costly for him. And the added bonus for him and his clients (though I suspect Ken has only 'customers' ) will be a much better cleaning.

This is not comparing on location to in plant cleaning, this is about being realistic about what clients are willing to pay.

Here is an example of not living in our market place: I emailed you a suggestion about one of your articles about urine stains on area rugs. (And I really like your blog and your articles, they are like a free mini university for me.) I suggested that you advise them to insert a piece of plastic between the floor and the rug, while spotting the stain to protect the wood floor from water damage. Your response was (and this is a copy): "I've not seen urine be able to penetrate the Durahold pads, because of the thickness."
Lisa, most clients have cheaper pads under their rugs and some have no pads at all. You need to go to people's home more frequently.

Yes, I know, I am the expert and that is a golden opportunity to sell them a quality pad that will really......................

Shall I refuse to take their rugs for in plant cleaning till they buy good pads?

Soooo... sell them Durahold pad!

You know... it's amazing when you truly believe you are doing the best for your clients and their rugs, how easy the "sale" happens.

This is not a "market reality" conversation... I'm in consumers' homes all of the time, and advising hundreds of Piranha Members in large numbers of homes... I think maybe you need to consider stepping back a bit and simply asking "what if" you made it a different conversation with your customers.

What if taking it to your plant was LESS money than cleaning it in their home (due to risk, and you being unable to give your best cleaning to them in that venue)? Would that change their decision? To "save" money going in plant?

My feeling is that their choice to have you do it in the home is not convenience based - it's price based, with convenience an added point after the fact.

Because as many of us have shared, myself in sunny, pricey CA, and Ken in less-sunny, harder economically hit MI and of course O'Haleck in less-sunny but WAY pricer Seattle - people do in fact let their rugs leave their home. A lot of them do.

I just want to plant the seed Ofer. Because your different perspective may be costing you quite a bit of money.

Lisa

 

[ruff]

Lisa,
I give up.
Something tells me that no matter what the argument is, you are going to ignore any other point of view and only 'hear' what works for your point of view.
Its done in Washington every day. Sarah, ignore all facts, Palin comes to mind.

I offer both options to my clients, and unlike you, I listen to what they want and need.

You and Ken and Bryan, though excellent at what you do, are not the right example.

Please feel free to ignore

And here is something Lisa..... eh.........a little... extra for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU9r50sZZy4

 

[The Great Oz]

You and Ken and Bryan, though excellent at what you do, are not the right example.

Think I'm going to argue with you?

 

[GCP]

interesting.

 

[ruff]

Absolutely not, Bryan!
And that alone is worth the price of a good microbrewery quart and a dinner on me on your next trip to the Bay Area.

That is off course if you are not a teetotaler :shock:

Other wise a good glass of milk and a chocolate chip cookie.
Naturally all organic

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

Lisa,
I give up.
Something tells me that no matter what the argument is, you are going to ignore any other point of view and only 'hear' what works for your point of view.
Its done in Washington every day. Sarah, ignore all facts, Palin comes to mind.

I offer both options to my clients, and unlike you, I listen to what they want and need.

You and Ken and Bryan, though excellent at what you do, are not the right example.

Please feel free to ignore

And here is something Lisa..... eh.........a little... extra for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yU9r50sZZy4

And what exactly is "not the right example"? That we are successful at rug cleaning?

I guess some BD failure at rug cleaning would be the guy you want to get advice from?

That makes no sense at all... WINNING!!!

Lisa

 

[ruff]

Exactly Lisa!
Give us some BDCC that you recommend.
No doubt they will also belong to the 'Ethical Rug Cleaning Net.'
And will 'eat the competition alive!'

Go for it :shock:

If you were interested in an exchange of ideas, a good response would have been: Why aren't Ken, Bryan etc...not a good example?
However, I must have mistaken your intentions.
See, I thought you wanted an open to discussion and some exchange (not necessarily an agreement) of ideas and or different points of view. Evidently, however, you want to bestow us with wisdom from the pulpit.

As my kids say: "my bad."
Preach on, the pulpit is all yours.

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

You are in the same state as me... I am just astounded that with so many successful rug cleaning operations all over your half of the state, that you can sit there and say no one is going to let their rugs leave their homes.

And that some of the most successful rug operations are not the "right example" to reference is equally just plain weird.

Is there a dispensary near your cleaning company too? (If so -good for you!)

If you want to keep cleaning rugs in homes, more power to you. But that is your choice, not theirs.

I appreciate the back and forth on it though. =)

Lisa

 

[ruff]

As usual, you ignore what does not suit your argument. There is no 'back and forth', Lisa, it's all in your imagination.

Preach on :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

As usual, you ignore what does not suit your argument. There is no 'back and forth', Lisa, it's all in your imagination.

Preach on :roll: :roll: :roll:

Is this Shawn York?!?

I'm seeing a weird similarity in the posts....

WINNING!!!

 

[ruff]

Scenario one:
High horse lady from ethical rug cleaning.com, comes to poor woman's house. Sees her $ 650.00; 9x12 Pakistani Costco special.

Informs her that only specialized in plant cleaning will do justice to her Karachi heirloom.
At the bargain price of $4.00 per s.f. = $432.00 + pick up and delivery, give or take a few.

Naturally nothing but a Durahold pad will do for the natural treasure= $250.00.
Off course the little heirloom, as little Pakistanis often do, develops a little 'fringe blush' after the cleaning. High horse babe, as most ethicals do, proceeds to brighten them using acids, reducer and or a mild dash of oxidizers to give it that white 'sharkish' look. Note to delivery person: "Do not move, let alone sneeze by fringes when delivering."

A little $$$$ for fringe repair and reweaving here and there, after all it's not the ethi's fault that the little Karachi wonder was never that robust to begin with. Naturally she will spear no expenses.

End of story: Old lady presented with the total $$$$ bill. Can't afford payment,looses home, kids and little pooch. Clutching with her arthritic fingers, the priceless heirloom, all the way to the homeless shelter.

Scenario two:
Knight in shining armor advices lady that he also can offer her a superior, in plant cleaning.

However, considering the rug and her budget, an on location surface cleaning, though far inferior to the other method, may be a reasonable option. "No, mam, your existing pad is just fine."
At a grand total of $125.00 he vacuums the rug. Puts a tarp on half the rug, flips the other side over it and vacuums with a beater bar causing the send to fall into tarp. Using the same method say, as L. Wag and the chipmunks do in their sweat shop. Flips rug back removes sand flips to other side and proceeds.

He cleans the rug with a 'Woolsafe' dye stabilizing product. To avoid wetting the foundation of the rug our knight in shining armor reduces pressure and clean on the pull only.

Working diligently and with precise movements his chiseled body hardly breaks a sweat. Immediately he places an air mover by the rug, which dries within an hour. Fringes not cleaned, yet develop no blush and no 'feebleness'.

Carpet looks great!
Old lady keeps her house. With the difference in costs she can now afford to buy another heirloom for her cold bedroom + a cheeseburger. She wants her beautiful daughter to marry the shining dude.

End of story:
High Horse Ethi drives Lexus home. (P.S. What are you driving these days Lisa?)

Pondering a new career: "How to intimidate your clients to clean more than they ever thought was necessary and or possible, while gaining friends and status."
Moves on to politics.
Later, 'high horse ethi' wins the white house on the ticket: "Un-tax the rich, sock it to the poor baby

Anybody here wants to buy a VORTEX?

Oh........Preach on Lisa :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

 

[Ken Snow]

For $149.99 we will pick it up, take to our spa for that "superior" cleaning, then return it to this woman's home.

 

[Mikey P]

Ofer, what is this Woolsafe product you use?




BTW, I am on your side, we clean a LOT of rugs in the home. Many many customers would not clean at all if they only had the $4.00 option. If Mrs Perky Pony was out in the field like you and I she would realize that.


and we send a LOT of rugs to our buddies at Artisan Rug Care and Talisman.

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

For $149.99 we will pick it up, take to our spa for that "superior" cleaning, then return it to this woman's home.

Well Ken, since you aren't the one talking about bleeding the fringes, and using lots of bleach to "fix" it, I'd obviously choose you to clean her rug. :mrgreen: Ofer may be sniffing up some of those products a bit too much.

Lisa

P.S. I drive a 3 year old Mercury Milan sedan. I like to buy American. Nice to know Ofer that you think anyone who is talking about doing the "best" for their clients automatically means that they are ripping them off. Not sure where you learned your business skills from, but none of the rug cleaning companies I know operate like that.

 

[DGT]

Sounds like someone needs to get better clients. All that work done in the home?! No way. I'd rather do more wall to wall in all the
time that it is going to take. I charge $3.50 per foot and higher. If they don't like it, they are free to go elsewhere to have the rug
cleaned/ruined.
As for bleaching fringes, who does that anymore? That stuff is not even allowed through the door of our shop. If they are not snow
white, that is their fault and I make certain that they know it.

Everything that you tell them before you start the job is education. Everything after, is an excuse.
Educate them and get top dollar. Most of it is how much you tell them and how you tell them.

Greg
"Nothin but rugs!"

 

[Zee]

P.S. I drive a 3 year old Mercury Milan sedan. I like to buy American. .

:| so you bought a car made in Mexico?

That was my thought too....this whole buy American stuff gets a little ridiculous sometimes.

A lot of Japanese/Asian and German cars are made in the USA and are using American workforce and American materials. Its almost better for America to buy a German or Asian car that was made here, than to buy the American cars that are made in Austria or Mexico..etc...



Sorry for contributing to the thread high jacking.

 

[LisaWagnerCRS]

P.S. I drive a 3 year old Mercury Milan sedan. I like to buy American. .

:| so you bought a car made in Mexico?

That was my thought too....this whole buy American stuff gets a little ridiculous sometimes.

A lot of Japanese/Asian and German cars are made in the USA and are using American workforce and American materials. Its almost better for America to buy a German or Asian car that was made here, than to buy the American cars that are made in Austria or Mexico..etc...



Sorry for contributing to the thread high jacking.

Hey - it's a nice local long time dealership. And when car sales tanked the first time gas was hitting $4 a gallon back then, it actually did matter to me that it was an American brand.

But you're right - I even mentioned in my rug equip thread how equipment made in the US is sourced from other countries, so what was the distinction. Is a BMW built in South Carolina still a German car, or not? Today it doesn't really matter anymore because all large companies are pretty much global. That's why I put the links to the companies in Greece and Turkey selling affordable rug cleaning equipment - because a lot of rug cleaning companies buy from Europe.

My model Mercury was built in the US (the higher end model is built down south - or was... they don't build Mercuries any more).

I'm actually trying to decide on a new car. I usually keep mine 4 years. Had my 4-runner for 6 until it got wrecked. =( I loved that car.

Anyway... at the time I did specifically choose on of the big three brands, because US cars were taking a hit at that time. I know it seems silly, but it mattered to me.

Lisa

 

[ruff]

For $149.99 we will pick it up, take to our spa for that "superior" cleaning, then return it to this woman's home.

We've already discussed this Ken.
No deal!
As that offer comes attached with the teeth less dancing girls from Pontiac Bob has been providing Hagopian with.

No way our clients can stomach that

P.S. That $149 price sounds mighty fine, Ken..........
Till one realizes that in Mowtown you can practically buy a house for that price.
Dog made in America, included :mrgreen:

 

[ruff]

Ofer, what is this Woolsafe product you use?




BTW, I am on your side, we clean a LOT of rugs in the home. Many many customers would not clean at all if they only had the $4.00 option. If Mrs Perky Pony was out in the field like you and I she would realize that.


and we send a LOT of rugs to our buddies at Artisan Rug Care and Talisman.

Mike, I like a few products, depending on how soiled the rugs are and what are the client's needs.
Here are a few:
'Evolution' by Orbeco ('WoolSafe' +scent free + green seal approved. A mild cleaner.)

Prochem's 'DeepClean.' (Acid side, stabilizer. Very perfumy.)

"Fiber Plus" I think it is an interlink product.

'3n1RF' by 'MixedRite' ( I don't think it is 'WoolSafe' however it is all natural and mild and can be followed by a fresh water or acid rinse.)

Hope this helps.

 

[ruff]

Sounds like someone needs to get better clients. All that work done in the home?! No way. I'd rather do more wall to wall in all the
time that it is going to take. I charge $3.50 per foot and higher. If they don't like it, they are free to go elsewhere to have the rug
cleaned/ruined.
As for bleaching fringes, who does that anymore? That stuff is not even allowed through the door of our shop. If they are not snow
white, that is their fault and I make certain that they know it.

Everything that you tell them before you start the job is education. Everything after, is an excuse.
Educate them and get top dollar. Most of it is how much you tell them and how you tell them.

Greg
"Nothin but rugs!"

Greg, I very much doubt it. I've got pretty good clients here in SF.

The bleach was in jest. An exaggeration. A jab at Ms. Perky Pony.
I know that Lisa, does a fine job. I even emailed her in the past that I really like her posts and still do. I also follow her blog. Free, good education and knowledgeable.

My response was to her going on her high horse and ignoring any other point of view that does not suit or confirms to her agenda/opinion/point of view.

Read my other posts on this thread. We educate our clients. We offer both in plant and on location services. We reject many rugs we judge improper to be cleaned on location. However we do not ignore our clients needs. Once we gave them the right info, now they are able to make an educated decision. We respect their inteligence.

A good company and hopefully yours is, pays attention to what their clients need and provides the right solution. We don't ride a high horse, nor do we patronize our clients. We provide solutions to their needs.

It is not an either or game Greg.
The world is not black or white, unless one still lives in the fifties.

 

[ruff]

[/quote]
Well Ken, since you aren't the one talking about bleeding the fringes, and using lots of bleach to "fix" it, I'd obviously choose you to clean her rug. :mrgreen: Ofer may be sniffing up some of those products a bit too much.

Lisa

P.S. I drive a 3 year old Mercury Milan sedan. I like to buy American. Nice to know Ofer that you think anyone who is talking about doing the "best" for their clients automatically means that they are ripping them off. Not sure where you learned your business skills from, but none of the rug cleaning companies I know operate like that.[/quote]

Strictly non scented Ms. Perky :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

And if I ever run for the presidency, I'd like to make it clear that "I did not inhale."
Oops
I wasn't born in America, can't run for that job.
Well......I can still run for Governor of CA.


I don't think you rip off your clients Lisa. You know it was in jest. And I know that you provide your clients with great service and cleaning results. I even follow your Rug Chick blog and other posts and find them very informative.

Just do not get on a high horse and ignore that there are other needs and solutions out there. And that anybody not following what you think is right, is committing a crime against humanity.

A good cleaning company educates the clients and still understands that they are a service provider.

In other words, we are in the business of providing good, suitable, ethical solutions to our clients' needs.

 

[Ken Snow]

Hey ofer- I don't disagree that offering options is an okay way to go. Heck we clean 4 room for 99.95 where everyone here charges $2000 or more for that. My only real issue was hearing that cleints won't let their rugs out of their home and here is where I believe it is not truly them that are making the decision but rather you (or your staff) are convinced that they won't.