Why would anyone want a TM???

[DevilThomas]

Ok, I am new to the business and maybe I am missing something....but

Got a new 17" HD pad machine...reasonably priced...$1500

Got a lightly used CleanMaster Raptor R230H extractor...very reasonable price $1000

Got a lightly used original Rotovac at the reasonable price of $1015.

With these three reasonably priced tools.. used alone or better in combination.... I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would choose the expense,hassle, limitations, and enviromental footprint of a truck mount...I mean in the case of a Vortec system... it seems mentally ill! :shock:

TM's, using only one tool... ...most of the time... are 2 times faster than I am ...but I believe its my duty to clean the carpet the very best I can. They might clean twice as many as I do in a day...but by using a combination of tools, I know my carpets are as clean or cleaner and dryer.

In a hard economy, I can work for a sqft amount that a TM could not live with....though in fact, I am very happy to let the TM set the price.

But perhaps I am overlooking something?

 

[FB7777]

sounds like you are well prepared for most jobs


The fundamental thing a TM offers over other tools is efficiency


When you gain more jobs you may want to seek out tools that have higher production output...


or not

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Here is why you buy a truckmount. I bought my Legend XL completely set up for 14,500 dollars. Sounds like a lot, but I paid off the loan in 6 weeks because my business was great and was also all residential. I have been using the machine for 3 years and have made so much money I could have never made with a portable. I could easily sell the machine right now for 9-10 thousand. You will absolutely get more repeat customers and referrals if you know what you are doing. A truckmount doesn't cost money. They make money. If you have never cleaned with one and you do use one for just a short period, I guarantee you will never use a portable again, and if you do use a portable, you will wonder how you ever cleaned carpet with it in the first place.

 

[SRI Cleaning]

What dan said!

 

[royalkid]

fred said it well...you can achieve the same results with a porty...but it's gonna be more of a PITA...and you're not gonna be able to do the same amnt of jobs as TM owner...if $$ wasn't an issue everyone would/should have a TM...but i understand that start-up is expensive...i think for a newbie...a porty, and KNOWLEDGE of how to properly clean carpet will get you by for the 1st year or 2...then you'll have to step it up with a TM...and use the porty when needed.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

A lot of guys think like you do when they start out. Let's see what you have to say after a few years.

Trying to sell your porty services is a hard sell in many areas.

A lot of people do not want polluted air recycled in their house or the noise. Also increased risk of damaging "softer" hardwood and marble floors.

Why work harder when you can work smarter?

 

[Johnny]

I like my TM for the environmental footprint.

_________________________________________


STOP GLOBAL COOLING!

 

[Out of Character - 0]

I'd rather burn myself out than burn gas any day.

 

[Brian R]

Answers in Red.

Ok, I am new to the business and maybe I am missing something....but

Got a new 17" HD pad machine...reasonably priced...$1500

Got a lightly used CleanMaster Raptor R230H extractor...very reasonable price $1000

Got a lightly used original Rotovac at the reasonable price of $1015.

With these three reasonably priced tools.. used alone or better in combination.... I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would choose the expense,hassle, limitations, and enviromental footprint of a truck mount...I mean in the case of a Vortec system... it seems mentally ill! :shock:

TM's, using only one tool... ...most of the time... are 2 times faster than I am ...but I believe its my duty to clean the carpet the very best I can. They might clean twice as many as I do in a day...but by using a combination of tools, I know my carpets are as clean or cleaner and dryer.

In a hard economy, I can work for a sqft amount that a TM could not live with....though in fact, I am very happy to let the TM set the price.

But perhaps I am overlooking something?

 

[Greenie]

Damn, Brian beat me to it.

I was gonna answer all the "reasonably" price second hand comments with; Sometimes you luck out and can find a reasonably priced second hand TM too, and it makes most of what you just listed moot. Time is money unless this is your weekend hobby and the wife has a good job?

 

[Dolly Llama]

Got a new 17" HD pad machine...reasonably priced...$1500

Got a lightly used CleanMaster Raptor R230H extractor...very reasonable price $1000

Got a lightly used original Rotovac at the reasonable price of $1015.

glad to see you care about doing quality work.
However, you do know you're soaking the carpets with that Rotovac, right?
Don't tell me you don't, cause even hooked to a TM they're a soaker, let alone hooked to a porty

With these three reasonably priced tools.. used alone or better in combination.... I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would choose the expense,hassle, limitations,

as mentioned, it's about efficiency most.

Not sure what "limitations" you're referring to, unless doing hi-rise buildings

another factor is Image in the custy's eyes.
Like or not, the truth is, most will "perceive" they're getting a better job with a Tm compared to your porty and buckets.
Not to mention how thrilled she is when you use her tub to fill and dump your dirty water in her toilet.

and enviromental footprint of a truck mount...

you'll have to tell me what your "footprint" is.
Electric use DOES have a "footprint".
They have to generate the stuff somehow. coal, gas, nuke, hydro .
You're taking twice as long to do the same job a TM can do.
I have no clue which one is the bigger "footprint"
Two hours of heavy amp draw from you, or 1 hour on an engine that meets current regs

TM's, using only one tool... ...most of the time... are 2 times faster than I am ...but I believe its my duty to clean the carpet the very best I can. They might clean twice as many as I do in a day...but by using a combination of tools, I know my carpets are as clean or cleaner and dryer.

That may be true depending on your know-how
but unless you're a part timer, or only want to work a pt time schedule, what happens when you reach the point you can't keep up with the work load?

In a hard economy, I can work for a sqft amount that a TM could not live with...

You and many other part timers and janitors think that too.
You don't know anyone's cost of doing biz.
a TM adds appx $15 a day to own in 5 years.
Keep it for ten years, and the cost goes down.
That $15 a day doubled the production rates too, don't forget.

Now, if you're "flying under the radar" like many part timers and some full time owner/ops, then yes, you can charge less regardless of your equipment

But perhaps I am overlooking something?

yes, i think you are.

here's why

I am new to the business and maybe I am missing something...

talk to us in 5 years .

If you intend to own a full time biz, I think your suppositions will change quite a bit by then


..L.T.A.

 

[Chris A]

my TM has no more environmental footprint than a standard one ton Chevy... I did three fatties today and was home by 5, how 'bout you?

 

[Ron K]

You can clean a carpet with a toothbrush if you want to and you know what you are doing but why would you? Give the customer the best you can ...that is the name of the game I just believe my toothbrush is more better. First couple of rooms are dry before we leave. Can your process say the same thing? We work in the Seattle area and sometimes the Humidity Outside is !00% it's raining sideways still my little TM is doing great. I did the the porty thing and it just is not the same. Been there done that.

 

[rhyde]

yeah, what ron said

how did your meeting/ Tour go Ron?

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

Truckmounts don't really cost very much if you use them correctly.

 

[CarpetKING]

I started with a portable and thought it did a pretty good job. But the bottom line is most customers do not respect portables. A Truckmount is far superior in cleaning capacity and efficiency and will give you and your customers WAY more confidence in your work. I would not respect someone coming into my house with a portable

 

[DevilThomas]

Yes, I hear what you gentlemen are saying...TM's get much better production times...though they are hard pressed to get a better product. Typically I:
vacuum
Pre spot
Prespray
quick scrub with Op machine to work it in for agitation and dwell time.
Extract with Raptor...using glided wand .... rotovac on the traffic lanes and bad spots.
light post spray with encap
wipe with Op machine to finish and dry.
vacuum

I currently work rental turnovers.... "bad" carpets ....but no furniture problems...
Polluted "air" is not a big problem for me.

Speaking of Polluted...if you TM guys actually had to dump your waste tanks according to law....how much faster would you be than me? Production is great...but I don't think I would be comfortable illegally dumping every day I went to work....and some day the government might really start enforcing "dumping" laws!
Correct me if I am wrong....but don't most TM's have waste tanks in the 35...100 gallon range? With TM's high flow...how many average jobs can you do before having to go to an approved dumping station?

What if gas goes to 4, 5, or 6 dollars a gallon? What if "carbon" taxes are imposed? The future of TM carpet cleaning seems too unstable to justify a $70,000 investment when you cannot produce a unique product. In terms of expansion...for the cost of 1 TM... I could put out 7+ "Porty" crews. I guess the clincher is....In an all out, hard economy, price war....I don't see how a TM could prevail.

One other thing...TM's seem to set the price out there....if it is true that "porty" guys can profitably work for less....it would seem that a well equipped "porty" guy with his own equipment, vehicle, license, insurance, freedom of movement, would be the logical choice for a subcontractor to a well established Carpet Cleaning company rather than the cost, potential environmental problems, etc... of buying a new truck and having more problematic employees...

 

[CarpetKING]

70,000 for a truckmount??? There are only two truckmounts that even approach that price. I just invested in a EL Diablo for 1/7th of that will clean the doors off most anything on the market. If you are serious about your business do yourself a favor and find a TM you like and get it. Regardless of how nice a porty is its still a porty. You cant polish a turd.

 

[Johnny]

Get back to us after you've tried a truckmount.

________________________

STOP GLOBAL COOLING!

 

[Chads]

I say your bull$hit us that you do all that process with a pita portable all for a rental units, next thing your going to say is you do all of them for 20 dollars per room. If you do you have alot to learn but I think your just blowing smoke. :roll:

 

[Dolly Llama]

where do you live, dude?

many places in the country allow some form of ground dumping.
nearly all allow dumping in sanitary sewer.

There's a thing called a "pump out" that will pump your waste water to any toilet or sink in those apts you're cleaning.
It pumps while you're working..you don't have to stop cleaning to drain

and again, I'll say, you're talking out of your hat.
Your trying to rationalize your equipment as better cause that's all you have.
There's no need to do that.
No one is putting you down because of your choice of equipment.
Just don't try to rationalize something that most of us know from "experience" doesn't hold water

I'm telling you, you'll see it different in a few years.
IF..you plan to be a full time biz

..L.T.A.

 

[Able 1]

FILL OUT YOUR PROFILE!

 

[Brian R]

We cleaned an REI building last week. The "people" they had in there before us "cleaning" rented home depot portables and tried to clean...they had to ask them to leave.

That what price shoppers get.
When I gave them my bid, they said it was too high. They ended up going with us because the Manager liked the way I presented my company....

The Company went ahead and used us....because of what the manager said....and I had to lower my prices a little.
Mary would be proud of me.

 

[DevilThomas]

Got a new 17" HD pad machine...reasonably priced...$1500

Got a lightly used CleanMaster Raptor R230H extractor...very reasonable price $1000

Got a lightly used original Rotovac at the reasonable price of $1015.

glad to see you care about doing quality work.
However, you do know you're soaking the carpets with that Rotovac, right?
Don't tell me you don't, cause even hooked to a TM they're a soaker, let alone hooked to a porty

With these three reasonably priced tools.. used alone or better in combination.... I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone would choose the expense,hassle, limitations,

as mentioned, it's about efficiency most.

Not sure what "limitations" you're referring to, unless doing hi-rise buildings

another factor is Image in the custy's eyes.
Like or not, the truth is, most will "perceive" they're getting a better job with a Tm compared to your porty and buckets.
Not to mention how thrilled she is when you use her tub to fill and dump your dirty water in her toilet.


[quote:3uscws7f]and enviromental footprint of a truck mount...

you'll have to tell me what your "footprint" is.
Electric use DOES have a "footprint".
They have to generate the stuff somehow. coal, gas, nuke, hydro .
You're taking twice as long to do the same job a TM can do.
I have no clue which one is the bigger "footprint"
Two hours of heavy amp draw from you, or 1 hour on an engine that meets current regs

TM's, using only one tool... ...most of the time... are 2 times faster than I am ...but I believe its my duty to clean the carpet the very best I can. They might clean twice as many as I do in a day...but by using a combination of tools, I know my carpets are as clean or cleaner and dryer.

That may be true depending on your know-how
but unless you're a part timer, or only want to work a pt time schedule, what happens when you reach the point you can't keep up with the work load?

In a hard economy, I can work for a sqft amount that a TM could not live with...

You and many other part timers and janitors think that too.
You don't know anyone's cost of doing biz.
a TM adds appx $15 a day to own in 5 years.
Keep it for ten years, and the cost goes down.
That $15 a day doubled the production rates too, don't forget.

Now, if you're "flying under the radar" like many part timers and some full time owner/ops, then yes, you can charge less regardless of your equipment

But perhaps I am overlooking something?

yes, i think you are.

here's why

I am new to the business and maybe I am missing something...

talk to us in 5 years .

If you intend to own a full time biz, I think your suppositions will change quite a bit by then


..L.T.A.[/quote:3uscws7f]

Yes the Rotovac is a real soaker...that is why I prespot, prespray and agitate with an OP machine "Orbitec Defender"...before I extract with glided wand...only on toughest limited areas do I rotovac....later I dry pad OP those rotovac areas to dry them up.

Limitations...Yes, high rise, anything behind a security door that must remain closed, all the stuff TM's just can't reach.

Like I said above....currently only work rental turnover ....don't have any customer problems...deal with an excellent Property Management company..very professional and very steady. They think I turn out a better product for the same money as the TM company they used to use.

As for Image...I think that is starting to change...environmental awarness is not helping TM's.
Carbon footprint....here is where perception works against the TM....electricity is perceived as "cleaner" by the general public. But a TM's real environmental problem is waste dumping. Illegal dumping currently is like drunk driving in the 50's and 60's...frowned on... but not a big deal...the occasional fine....in the next 10 years ...illegal dumping ...will become no joke..like drunk driving today. I don't want being a daily toxic waste criminal to be part of my business model. If a TM adds the time and maybe expense to dump legally between jobs...or heaven forbid ...have to roll up leave a job. go dump, and come back to finish it...how much more productive will you be?

Facts are...product being equal...or appearing equal...most customers will go with price...just seems to be the way it is.

When I reach the point I personally can't handle the work load...I spend a few thousand more...find an employee with his own transportation (I can fit my equipment in a mini-van) and outfit him...pretty much like any TM outfit...but again without the large debt..

Not flying under the radar...just doing business....

 

[Mikey P]

Yes, I hear what you gentlemen are saying...TM's get much better production times...though they are hard pressed to get a better product. Typically I:
vacuum
Pre spot
Prespray
quick scrub with Op machine to work it in for agitation and dwell time.
Extract with Raptor...using glided wand .... rotovac on the traffic lanes and bad spots.
light post spray with encap
wipe with Op machine to finish and dry.
vacuum

Great method but you wont do more then two homes a day..If you live in your van down by the viadock, then good for you.

I currently work rental turnovers.... "bad" carpets ....but no furniture problems...
Polluted "air" is not a big problem for me.

All that work for .12 a foot that no one will really appreciate. You style of cleaning should be saved for penthouses.

Speaking of Polluted...if you TM guys actually had to dump your waste tanks according to law....how much faster would you be than me? Production is great...but I don't think I would be comfortable illegally dumping every day I went to work....and some day the government might really start enforcing "dumping" laws!
Correct me if I am wrong....but don't most TM's have waste tanks in the 35...100 gallon range? With TM's high flow...how many average jobs can you do before having to go to an approved dumping station?


My VorteX holds a 4 typical carpet jobs worth of dirty water and I only dump in the sewer. Which once you've been at this game for a while you'll be able to find real easy.

What if gas goes to 4, 5, or 6 dollars a gallon? What if "carbon" taxes are imposed? The future of TM carpet cleaning seems too unstable to justify a $70,000 investment when you cannot produce a unique product. In terms of expansion...for the cost of 1 TM... I could put out 7+ "Porty" crews. I guess the clincher is....In an all out, hard economy, price war....I don't see how a TM could prevail.


Gas/Diesel was already at $5.00 a gal. Not that big a deal. an extra $150 a week.

One other thing...TM's seem to set the price out there....if it is true that "porty" guys can profitably work for less....it would seem that a well equipped "porty" guy with his own equipment, vehicle, license, insurance, freedom of movement, would be the logical choice for a subcontractor to a well established Carpet Cleaning company rather than the cost, potential environmental problems, etc... of buying a new truck and having more problematic employees...


Keep dreaming. It's hard to get over the misconceptions that plague this industry that the $6.95 a room porty/coupon co's of the world create. Most choosy mothers chose a Truckmount.


It can be done, but for a rookie with a porty set up to create a good profitable client base that will survive times like these, will be nearly impossible. You'll soon grow real tired of cleaning those rat hole moves outs.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Like I said above....currently only work rental turnover ....don't have any customer problems...deal with an excellent Property Management company..very professional and very steady. They think I turn out a better product for the same money as the TM company they used to use.

As for Image...I think that is starting to change...environmental awarness is not helping TM's.
Carbon footprint....here is where perception works against the TM....electricity is perceived as "cleaner" by the general public. But a TM's real environmental problem is waste dumping. Illegal dumping currently is like drunk driving in the 50's and 60's...frowned on... but not a big deal...the occasional fine....in the next 10 years ...illegal dumping ...will become no joke..like drunk driving today. I don't want being a daily toxic waste criminal to be part of my business model. If a TM adds the time and maybe expense to dump legally between jobs...or heaven forbid ...have to roll up leave a job. go dump, and come back to finish it...how much more productive will you be?

Facts are...product being equal...or appearing equal...most customers will go with price...just seems to be the way it is.

When I reach the point I personally can't handle the work load...I spend a few thousand more...find an employee with his own transportation (I can fit my equipment in a mini-van) and outfit him...pretty much like any TM outfit...but again without the large debt..

Not flying under the radar...just doing business....

I wish you well, dude

But I think i agree with Chads.
You're just blowing smoke.
My guess is, you're phoney as a three dollar bill

..L.T.A.

 

[DevilThomas]

where do you live, dude?

many places in the country allow some form of ground dumping.
nearly all allow dumping in sanitary sewer.

There's a thing called a "pump out" that will pump your waste water to any toilet or sink in those apts you're cleaning.
It pumps while you're working..you don't have to stop cleaning to drain

and again, I'll say, you're talking out of your hat.
Your trying to rationalize your equipment as better cause that's all you have.
There's no need to do that.
No one is putting you down because of your choice of equipment.
Just don't try to rationalize something that most of us know from "experience" doesn't hold water

I'm telling you, you'll see it different in a few years.
IF..you plan to be a full time biz

..L.T.A.

Ok dude...now I have to call bullshit....exactly how many times this year did you really use your pump out to drain into the customers toilet...or spit it out over her lawn or garden....please ...I am new... not stupid. I would suggest that most TM's use their dump...not their pump.

I am not trying to rationalize my equipment...my equipment choice is rational and effective.
The extractor I use has 50' of hose, dual 3 stage vacs 200cfm, preheat, 2000 watts of inline heat...180 to 200 degree water...300psi seems very adequate, ...rotovac is the same for both of us, Op pre-scrubbing and post drying makes for a great product. On commercial grade ... OP... kicks ass. Oh...did I mention I actually own my equipment outright....not the loan company?

For the last 3 years I have been in a position to closely observe what a couple of large TM companies actually do...as opposed to what they say they do...on rental property.
quick urine scan...fast prespray...fast extraction, 2, sometimes 3 wand passes, once in a blue moon they might haul out a rotovac or RX 20 for a really bad spot...but I mean it is rare. Turn the heat to 70 , open a window, out the door in 1/2 to 1hr. Wet carpet...4hr dry minimum...often longer...Dump in the nearest convenient storm drain. And its all over ...except for the wick-backs. .18 per sqft.

Now for the same .18 sqft, I have stated what I do...who do you think provides a better product?

As for $70,000 for a TM ...$35,000 for TM and all the toys....$35,000 for the truck...

Maybe you guys are right...maybe in a couple of years I might want a TM....or maybe not

 

[DevilThomas]

I say your bull$hit us that you do all that process with a pita portable all for a rental units, next thing your going to say is you do all of them for 20 dollars per room. If you do you have alot to learn but I think your just blowing smoke. :roll:

No... I do that process for the same price set by the TM's in town..$.18 per sqft...I would love to get more...but the TM's set the price on rental turnovers...I do more...but I can afford to do more for the same money. Now if you TM guys will stop cutting each others throats...we can all make more money...especially me.

 

[Bob Foster]

Thomas. When the BS detectors start going off everywhere we have a simple solution. .

We are asking that you fill out your profile completely and accurately or you're going to be toast. Your information will be verified.

When many of us see some new guy, with little to no experience, come in here and start to argue with some of the best professionals in the industry we can just about guarantee you will turn into this weeks piñata.

We are far too busy fighting and criticizing each other than to argue with someone who hasn't got much to back up what they are saying - unless you are genuine. In which case, we will be glad to give you just as hard a time (an as much help) as the rest get.

So did you come here to stir up the gang for the hell of it or did you join to get some valuable advice to start your business off on the right foot?

 

[DevilThomas]

Thomas. When the BS detectors start going off everywhere we have a simple solution. .

We are asking that you fill out your profile completely and accurately or you're going to be toast. Your information will be verified.

When many of us see some new guy, with little to no experience, come in here and start to argue with some of the best professionals in the industry we can just about guarantee you will turn into this weeks piñata.

We are far too busy fighting and criticizing each other than to argue with someone who hasn't got much to back up what they are saying - unless you are genuine. In which case, we will be glad to give you just as hard a time (an as much help) as the rest get.

So did you come here to stir up the gang for the hell of it or did you join to get some valuable advice to start your business off on the right foot?

No BS...profile filled out...work in the same town as Odin...not looking to start a fight...looking for all the advice I can get....have gotton great insite by reading this board....just don't think that a bigger extractor is the definative answer in carpet cleaning...I think the product produced is far more important than how you produced it, and so far my customers have agreed... :wink: