Why would anyone want a TM???

[randy]

If you live that close to Terry I would suggest calling him up and checking out his truck mount. Many cleaners throughout the country (even some that charge .40 a square ) use a portable. Portables have come up in quality where there isn't as much different as there once was. I remember cleaning with a 75 PSI , single vac portable. Now $2500 will get you a pretty decent portable that will allow you perform a very good job (yes as clean as a truck mounted unit). It will take you longer and more effort but you can get excellent results with a quality portable.

You have to understand most of these guys are incrementalist. If they can clean 4% faster with a certain prespray, they use it. If they can clean earlier with a $200 glide, they use it. All those little things land at the bottom line $$$.

A truck mount for the average residential cleaner will pay for itself in labor savings alone. Literally a truck mounted cleaner can clean for square feet than any two guys using the very best portables. That being said I think you are a smart cookie for starting out with low costs. Watch your overhead, don't get your pocket picked by the IICRC or industry Gurus and you will be fine.
Best of luck

 

[Sticky]

300 psi is a joke...once you use a TM you will never go pack to a POS portable...you just started out, so why don't you try to listen to a bunch of us that been in the business for a long time....keep thinking they way you are...that type of thinking is why half the carpet cleaners go out of business every 3 years....

portables are a joke...most customers think this too....

 

[Chris A]

did anyone notice this guys from Bellingham? JHC...

 

[Brian R]

Fact of the matter is, the customer does not want you bringing a noisy ass porty into their home. It looks low budget, the exhaust screws up the indoor invironment and it just looks like you don't care enough to invest in your company. Or at least it looks like you are too inexperienced to be able to get a TM.

This is from the customers point of view.
Some of us started with porties, and we all tried to justify it to the custy.

I did more jobs per day, got more referrals (not because I did a better job, they just thought I was more professional) and didn't kill myself ...as much...when I traded up from my Ninja to at Steam Genie.

Image is huge, and with that comes referrals.

You can do a great job with tooth brush, but try going into someones home with just a toothbrush to clean their carpets and see what happens.


You will thank yourself when you get your TM.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Ok dude...now I have to call bullshit....exactly how many times this year did you really use your pump out to drain into the customers toilet...or spit it out over her lawn or garden....please ...I am new... not stupid. I would suggest that most TM's use their dump...not their pump.

Honest to God, dude, it's very very rare that we're not in compliance with state and local regs on dumping.
You may not believe that, but it's true.
Here's something you may not be aware of, regs vary from state to and local municipalities.
So don't assume that every outfit across the country is dumping their waste water in the salmon streams.

Just a quick mention on how "toxic" waste water is
(it's a whole 'nother debate)
You are aware that "normal" everyday waste water acts as fertilizer, correct?
That's the major reason for the restrictions.

I understand that there seems to be an over abundance enviro zealots in your part of the world.
(you guys banned common dish washing liquids for pete's sake)
The rest of country by and large, doesn't share the same extreme view.

I am not trying to rationalize my equipment...my equipment choice is rational and effective.
The extractor I use has 50' of hose, dual 3 stage vacs 200cfm, preheat, 2000 watts of inline heat...180 to 200 degree water...300psi seems very adequate, ...rotovac is the same for both of us, Op pre-scrubbing and post drying makes for a great product. On commercial grade ... OP... kicks ass. Oh...did I mention I actually own my equipment outright....not the loan company?

I never suggested that's not a wise move for "you".

I own my equipment too....It's nice not sweating a payment in winter time
We also use OP and rotary too .
I know many of us (dare I say most of us "here") use multiple methods to catch crawdads.

I did suggest that when (IF) you grow to a point you can't keep up with demand, you'll rethink your position.
and i have news for you, Bro, if you think it's as simple as outfitting a sub with a porty in the back of a Pinto to roll,
you're in for a rude awaking on the challenges of "duplicating yourself"

For the last 3 years I have been in a position to closely observe what a couple of large TM companies actually do...as opposed to what they say they do...on rental property.
quick urine scan...fast prespray...fast extraction, 2, sometimes 3 wand passes, once in a blue moon they might haul out a rotovac or RX 20 for a really bad spot...but I mean it is rare. Turn the heat to 70 , open a window, out the door in 1/2 to 1hr. Wet carpet...4hr dry minimum...often longer...Dump in the nearest convenient storm drain. And its all over ...except for the wick-backs. .18 per sqft.

Now for the same .18 sqft, I have stated what I do...who do you think provides a better product?

"IF" you're really doing what you "claim" to be doing as far as cleaning steps, I have have little doubt you're blowing them out of the water.
Good for you....actually, good for the prop manager, cause he's getting .40+ a sf restoration cleaning for down right CHEAP

I don't know if you're "really" making any money at .18 cents a sq doing all that though.
I know how long it takes to do a "quality" job using all those multi-steps.
If you're working along, you can't being doing much more production than 100 to 150sf pr hour when including set up time.
"IF" you're "really" doing all the steps you claim AND doing them "right"

You might "think" you're doing well with your $250 gross a day (based on average 700sf cleanable carpet in an apt)
But once you deduct taxes, ins, wear and tear, chems, and all other expenses, yada, yada, yada, you really ain't making much.
You could probably make as much slingin' joe at the Java hut and not have the headaches.

As for $70,000 for a TM ...$35,000 for TM and all the toys....$35,000 for the truck...

man-o-day, I don't know where to start.
a brand new cargo van can be bought for much less than $35K
A savvy buyer can find them in the $25K range and even less.
In fact, i paid more for my mini-van than i did for my extended cargo van (bought them both new)
Guess which one has more room?
and you know what? the fuel mileage isn't all that much different either..21mpg w/mini-van vs 18mpg with my ext cargo van

I don't know what TMs you're looking at either.
But there's a wide open market full of very nice brand new TMs for around $20K.

"all the toys" should be based on your "needs" and whether those options will make you more profitable, or give you better/as good results in less time or ease

..maybe in a couple of years I might want a TM....or maybe not

maybe, maybe not.
Time will tell.
You seem like sharp dude, it will be interesting to see if your position/thoughts change in several years

thanks for filling out your profile too


..L.T.A.

 

[Larry B]

The only reason everyone on this board is running a TM is because they are too old to lift the porty anymore. They all know they would trade that TM for a porty anyday.

 

[Dolly Llama]

PS..while you counting beans, be sure to ad the expense and time involved to replace OP pads and wash them.
Water, electric, washing machines and detergent ain't free.

and time involved in laundering them ain't nothing to sneeze at either


..L.T.A.

 

[Brian R]

The only reason everyone on this board is running a TM is because they are too old to lift the porty anymore. They all know they would trade that TM for a porty anyday.

Where's is that eye rolling emoticon again?....oh, there it is.

:roll:

 

[Mike Draper]

Facts are...product being equal...or appearing equal...most customers will go with price...just seems to be the way it is.

Wrong...most customers go with value, and the product you are pitching is not equal to all other cleaners. I started with a the exact same setup as you. Rv-360, portable, etc....as did many cleaners here. Some day you will see the light as many of us here have. My waste tank is 210 Gallons, so I can clean all day long. As far as environmental concerns, I'll be purchasing another van soon and converting it to CNG to meet with B. Hussein Obama's and Gores Socialist/ Communist tax the all mighty living shit out of us business owners agenda.

 

[Dolly Llama]

B. Hussein Obama's and Gores Socialist/ Communist tax the all mighty living shit out of us business owners agenda.

the sale of "carbon credits" will become a new commodities industry

..L.T.A.

 

[sweendogg]

70,000 for a truckmount??? There are only two truckmounts that even approach that price. I just invested in a EL Diablo for 1/7th of that will clean the doors off most anything on the market. If you are serious about your business do yourself a favor and find a TM you like and get it. Regardless of how nice a porty is its still a porty. You cant polish a turd.[/quote]


Actually, you can! :roll: They proved it on Mythbusters... (it was pretty gross though).

 

[Brian R]

I think owning and using a TM just makes your life easier all the way around.
The extra money spent on the machine should more than be made up by do-able extra jobs and the more referrals you will get by the customers.

Less fatigue will mean better quality of life.

You may be able to get a carpet just as clean...but it takes longer and it looks low budget....and customers know this.

 

[juniorc82]

I have been in business for three years using a porty. I do well and get plenty of referals. I do carry several iicrc certifications and I hope that my knowledge makes up for a bit of the power I loose using a porty. I will admit yes for rentals and commercial where you can be left alone a porty isnt that bad and can sometimes have small advantages over a tm. However with that said once you get going and get more residential you will get tired of all the porty hassles. I know this because I use a porty everyday and swore I wouldnt get a truck mount till I absolutley needed it and the time has come I am sick and tired of fumble farting around with power coards blowing breakers dragging the machine up and down steps ect. I would recomend before you do anything getting certified in carpet cleaning at the least. Once you know the right way to clean This will help you make more of an educated choice on equipment. Also that certification will help on tricky stains and help you stay out of trouble on more expensive carpets . Remember all carpet isnt as friendly as olefin and nylon! oh and as far as your concern for the environment try an electric tm like a bane or a savage which in most cases gives you tm power plus the advanteges of a porty.

 

[joey895]

When I first saw this dudes first post. I told my wife I'll bet you this guys from the northwest. Turns out Washington State, imagine that.

The words "environmental footprint" gave it away.

Most everything in favor of a truckmount has already been posted but I'd like to ad one thing. You talk about having access to places truckmounts can't go as an advantage for yourself. Don't you think a business that had the foresight and willingness to spend 20 g's on a truckmount, might also have been willing to spend 3 g's on a portable so he could still do the jobs his truckmount won't reach (assuming there is enough of those jobs to justify it where they are located)? I know I have a truckmount and a portable and a rotovac and a floor scrubber and ...........

 

[joey895]

Mercury. LOL Now that's funny because it's you westerners that are pushing for these damn cfl light bulbs that have mercury in them. Heaven forbid you break one inside your house and have to call a hazmat team to come clean it up. :roll:

By the way I'm not hating, I get it, he's out to save the world and I say more power to him just don't be hating on me for wanting to live in the 21st century.

 

[Larry B]

Actually, you can! :roll: They proved it on Mythbusters... (it was pretty gross though).

Only you would watch a show on polishing a turd :shock:

 

[Bob Foster]

I think this guy is actually a salesman from Rotovac and sales are real slow these days.

 

[Larry B]

I think this guy is actually a salesman from Rotovac and sales are real slow these days.

With all the freaking calls they place there phone bill is going to bust them.

 

[Dolly Llama]

a salesman from Rotovac.

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

don't make me drag up that old thread where I was RANTING AND RAVING over those IDIOTS telling me they had a sprayer in stock (for sure) and then charged my card only to call two hours latter tell me they really didn't have one.

Then some asshole "supposedly" in authority there tried to sell me that Chinese POS Hudson sprayer for 3 times more than I can buy the same POS at Harbor Freight !

take a deep breath, Larry. Calm down
it's behind you now.
No need to get all pi$$ed off again..
it won't do any good, cause you still won't have the sprayer you want and they will still be MORONS with their HEADS UP THEIR ASS

Yea, you're right.
OK, I'm calmed down now, thanks


..L.T.A.

 

[everfresh1]

B. Hussein Obama's and Gores Socialist/ Communist tax the all mighty living shit out of us business owners agenda.

the sale of "carbon credits" will become a new commodities industry

..L.T.A.

What a joke!! Obama and his cronies in congress are going to be taking money out of our pockets and giving it to all thier family and friends who own these front companies dealing in carbon credits. People actually voted for these idiots makes me sick!! :x

 

[cbcsi]

8) I clean with portys when my truck mount is broken (It happens).
It can be done. Just takes longer.

The only downside I see to truckmounts is a little learning curve on the maintenance. If you are mechanically inclined or have someone handy who can work on it for you; then, they are the best thing since sliced bread. 240 degree water is impossible get forget to keep up with a 1-2KW inline heater. And customers are convinced that portys don't do the job of firebreathing truckmounts.

That is they're preconceived idea. You can show them that you can clean as well, but only if they give you the job.

Start with portys and learn how to clean carpets. No debt is great.

 

[sweendogg]

Actually, you can! :roll: They proved it on Mythbusters... (it was pretty gross though).

Only you would watch a show on polishing a turd :shock:

It was the big explosion I was looking for,, they didn't mention.. well ok it was part of the advertisment! :shock:
To think our kids could be playing with lion dung marbles! 8)

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

PERCEPTION.

One major benefit of a TM is customer perception. If I have a 55k machine roaring in your
driveway a customer sees I have made a commitment to provide exceptional services.
If I roll something out of the back of my van that resembles something they could rent
at the hardware, their perception immediately changes. Guaranteed! Even if you can provide
a great cleaning job, your value to what a customer would expect as the "norm" has just deflated.

 

[Brian R]

It's like a limo service
You can show up in this one

or this one

They'll both get you there...but which one is going to get more referrals?

 

[DevilThomas]

is it our fault you out east guys like to dip your corn chips in mercury

forgive the guy he is young and stupid and going to take over the carpet cleaning world

Young?...no...you condesending Nordic assbite...

Stupid?... I'll tell you whats stupid..stupid is a manufacturer of an electric truckmount that calls a new Carpet Cleaner "stupid"...if these guys here are right... and I do come around in a year or two to the idea of a TM...you would be the last sob on this planet I would buy anything from...for a manufacturer and supplier that is world class stupid!

Lets talk about you for a minute...aren't you the guy that was doing rental turnovers for Apex Property Management for .10 a sqft...and finally got run off for poor performance? Apex went back to Swans for .18 a sqft.

Maybe your that guy that was hiring employees "under the table" in order to give you a competitive advantage?

Well one thing is for certain...I know you will be legally dumping your waste water...cause I'm going to be in town to help you.... :wink:

Your move "Sven"....I would suggest you apologise....but you decide.

 

[dealtimeman]

he is just new and when he gets to a point where he might become profitable he will need a truckmount. and i have a v and i dump at the self serve carwash with no problem at all. i dont think you have noticed but you are in the corner all by yourself thomas and you were the one that put yourself there. there are two ways of getting a valid point or opinion acrros and that is a right way and wrong way. i think you attempting to do it the wrong way buddy! :shock:

 

[DevilThomas]

he is just new and when he gets to a point where he might become profitable he will need a truckmount. and i have a v and i dump at the self serve carwash with no problem at all. i dont think you have noticed but you are in the corner all by yourself thomas and you were the one that put yourself there. there are two ways of getting a valid point or opinion acrros and that is a right way and wrong way. i think you attempting to do it the wrong way buddy! :shock:

Well opinions vary....that being said...I don't feel cornered...in fact I am enjoying myself and learning alot.

Things learned:

I can clean carpets as well and even better than the average truckmount, if I am willing to spend the time.

Because of "Image"....occupied residental should not be my primary target...and it is not.

My target market is and will continue to be Property Management Turnovers and Commercial...

Property managers are not impressed with image...they only care about what you actually do that makes/saves them money.

Commercial....again image is less important than performance....and TM's and myself are on more equal footing because OP is the same.

I've learned my "process" is sound and provides a superior product...I have to work harder...thats ok for now.

TM's do have limitations and special problems.

TM's often do only an average job because they are too busy chasing the next job...greed can affect performance.

Some TM owners have their "balls" tied up in their choice and are somewhat sensitive to questioning.

You see... I think unoccupied rental, and commercial are perfect for me...no image problems, no one standing over me, no furniture problems, no irrational homeowners, and since my Service is often already there providing other services to the rentals, and commercial establishments..it is logical and easy to pick up the carpets too....3 units a day and I can make $600 a day. Since everything happens in the first 15 days of every month in property rentals, I can make $9000 in a 1/2 a month and can chase commercial in the other half....or since I own my own home outright, located in the North Cascades mountains, along side a river, I could just fish the rest of the month... 8)

You see...I really can't lose...and I ain't scared... :wink: At this point, I really don't need a TM to help me over any "confidence" issues. If and when I need a TM for expansion...I will certainly seek this boards sage advice....well...except for that Nordic assbite...his ignorant remark makes me doubt the quality of his product...and the wisdom of doing any business with him.

I do thank most here for the "pointers" you have generously given...

 

[Mikey P]

Did Terri just get royally slapped?




again?



Deviltom, you've just been made a Supportive Member!


Welcome to the Board asshole, you fit right in.

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

WOW!!!

 

[captaincarpet]

This is Thomas playing the Devils advocate...

All the BS aside, do you really think you get 180-200 degrees at the wand with your portable consistantly? (wanna bet?)
Borrow a lie detector from Odin... and see. As for 300 psi being fine, my question is at what flow? Ive run portables, small entry level TM's, all the way to the "big" trucks, and you are kidding yourself to compare a 70,000 machine to a portable. With a portable and average small jet size, your flushing the carpet with 1/2 gallon to 3/4 gallon of luke warm water per minute...thats some flushing action there, do you really think that out performes even a mid range TM that actually produces 200+ degrees or more at 2-3 times the flow?
While the TM is faster production, it also does a better cleaning and flushing job than a portable ( unless you do 4-6 extra passes everywhere...then your dry times will be days.)
As far as dryer carpet in general, all things being equal if you use 1/3 to 1/4 the water, you will see faster dry times, but not better cleaning/flushing ... and FYI 2 little electric motors do not equal 1 Positive displacement blower either, so the better drying is doubtful at best even with the substantially lower flow.

So your "as clean or cleaner and dryer" is IMHO a little off.

I applaud your fervor and enthusiasm for what you do, but you must be a little naive to come here and expect a standing ovation for your obviously flawed perspective. And I'm not talking opinions here, simple applied physics...