Hot Seat WillS meet Mike Lockhart and the future!

[Mikey P]

You all know @WillS, our resident VLM only champ.
I believe Will's method of spray with encap and follow with HOST/CRB to be the most effective low moisture method out there. It's easily trainable, done in a decent amount of time and lower cost than HWE by by a good margin. Will does very well in a sea of Larry Lunchpail HWE goofs in Vegas. He and his crew are dapper young gents who know how to charm the retires and those that have been bilked over and over by the Larry's.
Will has been at it for 4 or so years now and I truly believe its time to go deeper.

Will meet Mike Lockhart. Lockhart is the dude who is going to set you up with a repo'd ( or stolen) high pressure Sapphire 2500 in a trailer. With this truckmount in a trailer you are going to take your business to the next level.

Now Will this is difficult for me in the sense that it's difficult for me to tell a good friend that his breath smells like shit, but Will, some of your after shots of carpet....well... they look like shit.

Not because you are not trying hard but because you are trying to defy gravity.

Take this recent one in particular.

Sure its dramatically different. Sure the home owner pee'd themselves when they first saw it.


But my anal retentive, 30 year's of experienced eye sees lots off DEEP soil still there. Many on the board won't see it and those that do wont say anything but as your friend I feel I owe it to you. A truckmount and an RE ran over that would be nearly as dramatic a difference again.
You may not believe me or you may just hear those dollars of truckmount maintenance, fuel usage, more gadget costs, training headaches, break downs etc fighting off my suggestion like and want to ignore me or call me crazy but HEAR ME OUT!

Will. no amount of pulverizing, jiggling, twirling or agitating is going to bring that bottom layer of soil up IF YOU DON'T INVOLVE REAL WET EXTRACTION.

FACT!

GRAVITY!




I know your goal with you business is to get more crews on the road. IMO, in order to do this you'll need to be come more full service. You're going to lose too many customers who wont be happy with the cleaning after a week or so. When the groom marks go away and gravity happens, the soil that is still in that carpet above, is going to rear it's ugly head and people will notice and try a different company next time IF THEY THINK THATS THE BEST YOU CAN DO.


Here is how I would handle it. Get one trailer set up and put hitches on all your pick up trucks. Train your guys to recognize when your method has met it's match and say these magic words.

"Mrs Piftleton we did our very best on your dining room (or any too far gone area) and it looks really good, lets go take a look" let her exasperate and pat you on the back and then hit her with 'Would you mind if on our next visit we use a different machine (not method) that may be able to get a bit more soil out, it will take a little longer to dry and will cost a just a bit more but I think it would add some life to the carpet and would help our normal process that you like so much, work better the next time"

She wont argue and you then proceed to mark it in Service Monster to bring the trailer next time for such and such areas. She'll be thrilled that you care that much and will call you back sooner.

and tell her friends


and yelp! you.


Now when you go out and give bids on commercial work and large homes, you'll also mark the Monster notes to bring the trailer for trashed areas. Over time as you grow you'll need another trailer set up, maybe even three.
You can see that I'm in no way suggesting you stop your current Encap/Host method for the bulk of your work. Your repeats and light soil customers love it.


But just like I have a Cimex for light soil work, you'll have a canon for the deep soil work.

and tile, for christs sakes, quit trying to clean grout and stone by rubbing it. Blast and suck that filth out, way faster, way better. Way more referrals.
Upholstery too will be looked at entirely different by you, your crew and your happy clients.


You'll be the most adept cleaner in all of Vegas. No longer turning away trashed homes and pee pee jobs. Able to handle anything.


Get the trailer set up and fly me down for a week of training and I promise you this will be the move that takes you to the next level.

 

[Papa John]

WIIS, I know it might not seem like it--
But Mikey must like you enough to bother putting you through the Hot Seat. ie. If he didn't care-- he wouldn't bother with you.
Wiis you have shown some great business skills and would be unstoppable---Maybe "The Mark Saiger of LV"- if you took Mikey's advise.
WIIS, I realize your 1st reaction might be to defend yourself--- This is typical of most people who might feel attacked.
but Hopefully Mikey has "planted a Seed" in your brain-- and in about 6 months when you forget about this post-- Mikey's idea will become YOUR idea.

 

[PrimaDonna]

Mike, I see your point, but also realize that Las Vegas is one of the most transient cities in the US. The turn over is insane and people want a low price point.

I'd love to know how many of Will's clients are repeat or how many are one and done. It's it's own niche and if he is doing a lot of one and done due to the turn over, then his method works just fine for that. He's getting results that the clients are happy with at the right price point and he has an endless stream of clients due to turn over. I agree HWE would be better, but if this is working for him and he found a way to make it successful, then let him keep at it his way.

Will - do you see a lot of repeat customers? If you don't, do you want them? If you do then Mike is on to something. If you don't, then keep doing what you're doing.

 

[Mikey P]

Will has told me many times that he wants in on the high end market there, which there is PLENTY of and they ain't going no where.

He wont get in with only the one method and it's restrictions.

 

[PrimaDonna]

Will has told me many times that he wants in on the high end market there, which there is PLENTY of and they ain't going no where.

He wont get in with only the one method and it's restrictions.

Then he should take your advice...and fast.

 

[hogjowl]

If you won't listen to Mikey, call Saiger.
On a day when you have hours to spare.

 

[Onfire_02_01]

Mikey,
Since the results of wills encapsulate are nothing short of Amazing on the surface and much lacking in the undergrowth what do you attribute the problem to? Does the encap not penetrate the tops of the carpet fibers and therefor have triple strength at the surface and nothing below, or is there a problem with the system of spray, scrub, bonnet, groom?

 

[Papa John]

Mikey,
Since the results of wills encapsulate are nothing short of Amazing on the surface and much lacking in the undergrowth what do you attribute the problem to? Does the encap not penetrate the tops of the carpet fibers and therefor have triple strength at the surface and nothing below, or is there a problem with the system of spray, scrub, bonnet, groom?

Its because there IS NO Extraction/removal of contaminates!
- Sorry Mikey! I couldn't help myself to jump in.

 

[Mikey P]

John is correct.

Lots of soil left down at the roots

 

[Mikey P]

Only HWE will get out what you can clearly see in that photo

 

[steve_64]

The deeper soils need to be penetrated. Encapping lays the fibers over on each other not allowing penetraion to the nap.

Those soils also need stronger product because they themselves are already concentrated

Using a brush instead of bonnets as a first step helps as it does with hwe but I often prespray again after cleaning an area I see those shadows. It's why I charge extra on trashed carpet.

And how come nobody ever offered me a truck mount knowing I was running a bane?

 

[steve_64]

Hek a crb with the right product will dig all that crud out then hit it with bonnets.

I'm just shaking my head..

Let me suffer for ten years geesh

 

[WillS]

You all know @WillS, our resident VLM only champ.
I believe Will's method of spray with encap and follow with HOST/CRB to be the most effective low moisture method out there. It's easily trainable, done in a decent amount of time and lower cost than HWE by by a good margin. Will does very well in a sea of Larry Lunchpail HWE goofs in Vegas. He and his crew are dapper young gents who know how to charm the retires and those that have been bilked over and over by the Larry's.
Will has been at it for 4 or so years now and I truly believe its time to go deeper.

Will meet Mike Lockhart. Lockhart is the dude who is going to set you up with a repo'd ( or stolen) high pressure Sapphire 2500 in a trailer. With this truckmount in a trailer you are going to take your business to the next level.

Now Will this is difficult for me in the sense that it's difficult for me to tell a good friend that his breath smells like shit, but Will, some of your after shots of carpet....well... they look like shit.

Not because you are not trying hard but because you are trying to defy gravity.

Take this recent one in particular.

Sure its dramatically different. Sure the home owner pee'd themselves when they first saw it.


But my anal retentive, 30 year's of experienced eye sees lots off DEEP soil still there. Many on the board won't see it and those that do wont say anything but as your friend I feel I owe it to you. A truckmount and an RE ran over that would be nearly as dramatic a difference again.
You may not believe me or you may just hear those dollars of truckmount maintenance, fuel usage, more gadget costs, training headaches, break downs etc fighting off my suggestion like and want to ignore me or call me crazy but HEAR ME OUT!

Will. no amount of pulverizing, jiggling, twirling or agitating is going to bring that bottom layer of soil up IF YOU DON'T INVOLVE REAL WET EXTRACTION.

FACT!

GRAVITY!




I know your goal with you business is to get more crews on the road. IMO, in order to do this you'll need to be come more full service. You're going to lose too many customers who wont be happy with the cleaning after a week or so. When the groom marks go away and gravity happens, the soil that is still in that carpet above, is going to rear it's ugly head and people will notice and try a different company next time IF THEY THINK THATS THE BEST YOU CAN DO.


Here is how I would handle it. Get one trailer set up and put hitches on all your pick up trucks. Train your guys to recognize when your method has met it's match and say these magic words.

"Mrs Piftleton we did our very best on your dining room (or any too far gone area) and it looks really good, lets go take a look" let her exasperate and pat you on the back and then hit her with 'Would you mind if on our next visit we use a different machine (not method) that may be able to get a bit more soil out, it will take a little longer to dry and will cost a just a bit more but I think it would add some life to the carpet and would help our normal process that you like so much, work better the next time"

She wont argue and you then proceed to mark it in Service Monster to bring the trailer next time for such and such areas. She'll be thrilled that you care that much and will call you back sooner.

and tell her friends


and yelp! you.


Now when you go out and give bids on commercial work and large homes, you'll also mark the Monster notes to bring the trailer for trashed areas. Over time as you grow you'll need another trailer set up, maybe even three.
You can see that I'm in no way suggesting you stop your current Encap/Host method for the bulk of your work. Your repeats and light soil customers love it.


But just like I have a Cimex for light soil work, you'll have a canon for the deep soil work.

and tile, for christs sakes, quit trying to clean grout and stone by rubbing it. Blast and suck that filth out, way faster, way better. Way more referrals.
Upholstery too will be looked at entirely different by you, your crew and your happy clients.


You'll be the most adept cleaner in all of Vegas. No longer turning away trashed homes and pee pee jobs. Able to handle anything.


Get the trailer set up and fly me down for a week of training and I promise you this will be the move that takes you to the next level.

I've given into your to your theory over the last couple months. I know we need a TM in the very SOON near future. Especially for Tile. I've been looking at some of the new/used plans through Butler Financing. I looked on craigslist but am sketch about those. I don't know what to look for when buying and don't want to waste 7k on something that could 2 days later, blow up on me. Not knowing how they should sound, look etc. Just another excuse in getting one yet. My plan is January to begin the actual process of buying. I don't advertise tile enough right now, because it is such a pain in the ass to do. So you are correct there and I will be flying you down when I get to this point. I'll use my comp dollars for a good room for ya.

Two things on this subject: I would only use HWE on filthy BLACK dirty carpet. VLM will still be our main carpet cleaning. I would offer HWE only as secondary. In no way do we want to be known as another Steam/HWE cleaner in town. I've only had 1 request in the past from a commercial building asking for steam cleaning. Other then that, we want to still STAND out from competitors with the Dry Carpet Cleaning. Second: This means I'll be adding debt onto the business. (understandable this will be necessary to grow). Debt.. Something we haven't had because you are right. VLM is an affordable way to begin cleaning and you can grow it pretty quickly. Paid everything in cash. 10k to setup 1 truck for 2 guys to run. Easy enough to where we have 3 of those now compared to 1 truck mount and van. My credit is shit. When you can't get loans easy, entering this business VLM style is also more affordable. Just from being on this board I've had calls from cleaners around the country that are HOST/Encap method only. I don't think VLM will be going away and will become more preferred by home owners not wanting wet carpets, stains reappearing, etc. (sorry that's my only HWE dig).

From January 2016 to today, we have cleaned 1,200 homes. 970 of those are new customers 230 are return.

- Vegas is very transient. People are moving out of state all the time. Home owners buying staying for a few years and selling. Renters renters and more renters. There are also half the city not willing to pay $$$ to make dirty dirty carpet clean again. People with this carpet are usually low income renters. Over the last 2 years we have moved away from these by raising prices and have been doing homes in the zip codes that we want. High end has been growing to this last year 6 hours with 3 guys for $3,000 cleaning already clean Wool Drapes, Wool Carpet, Leather, Upholstery, Rugs. This has been helpful in growing from rich guys secretaries whose friends used us and mentioned us on Facebook or else where. And commercial is moy bueno! So another reason you see it is hard for me to believe that HWE is a better direction to move into.

Carpet like in the picture above that has heavy traffic, after we've cleaned it, I can go back into the home 8 months later and see traffic lanes barley starting to form. Promise that is not a lie. lol These places really do stay up well after we have cleaned them. I'm not sure about the comment with dirt rising back in a week and a lot of it. Most of our customer comments say how long the carpet has stayed clean after we did it. I've had only 1 phone call in all 4.5 years in business that the carpet became dirty or sticky a few days later. It was because the tech didn't use enough HOST. As long as they didn't use a rug doctor or some cheap 2 room for $39 dude, the carpet does well. The second time around is even easier to clean.

Many HWE cleaners have a bad name in this town. There are so many and people associate "HWE and Steam Cleaning" as having their carpets soaked again, stains re-appear a few days later, bait and switch type guys coming to their home. That is why we have been able to do so well within our market. "Dry in 1 hour" "Eco-Friendly" and the retirees really do love talking to our guys. Young customers love the process and have been very high on referrals for us.


Expect NaturalDry to have a TM beginning 2017 then you can turn me over to the dark side.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Heavier soiled carpets are going to need more product. Spray more and grind more in.

As far as residue, the company line is that the "sponges" keep working gathering more soil until removed during regular vacuuming.

 

[WillS]

Heavier soiled carpets are going to need more product. Spray more and grind more in.

As far as residue, the company line is that the "sponges" keep working gathering more soil until removed during regular vacuuming.

Collecting soil not causing it.

 

[Mikey P]

Lets get you up to 60% repeat..


How often are resi jobs pre bid?

 

[WillS]

Lets get you up to 60% repeat..


How often are resi jobs pre bid?

Last year was 78% new customers 22% return. Just beginning 2015 we signed up for SM and started sending the reminder cards and do pretty good on those.

We never pre bid residential properties.

 

[Mikey P]

In no way do we want to be known as another Steam/HWE cleaner in town

Get out of that Method Mind Set.

Become a master of them all, because they all have their place.

In my humdrum life as a carpet cleaner I have two great joys to look forward to every day.

One is telling a new customer that..

"Unlike all those other companies in town who only offer one method and try their best to convince you it's the best, we offer ALL the methods and pick our plan of attack once we see and survey your particular situation, often times combining two or more methods to get the deepest cleaning and the quickest dry times"
That right there stops the conversation. It makes sense to them and they never bring up method again.

They don't even ask what method you did once you're done.





the Second joy in my day is picking on Marty.

Hey Will, "Knock Knock!"

What Mike?




Who's there?





"Nothing"








Nothing who?






























"Nothing in Marty's Customer's Email Address Box on Service Monster" That's Who!

 

[Desk Jockey]

LOL

 

[hogjowl]

Oh ATTITUDE!

 

[Mikey P]

Hey Marty what does this symbol mean..?

@

 

[hogjowl]

That's the Californian symbol for asshole. @Mikey P

 

[Desk Jockey]

LOL

 

[Cleanworks]

I think Will has his system down as long as his guys follow the proper format. Hwe will be a nice option especially for large tile jobs. Where people go wrong with vlm, is they only do a portion of the steps. For example, a building that I do the hallways in had always been cleaned by someone using host. Regardless of what they may used as a prespray, if any, they were not removing the Host powder. You could spread the fibers and see compacted Host powder (or sponges if you like) I brought along a certified pile lifter to vacuum the carpets with and I started by the managers door. She came out after about 10 minutes of vacuuming and exclaims, "Wow, the other guys never got the carpet this clean". If I was smart, I would have finished vacuuming and collected the cheque. Instead, I explained that we were just vacuuming and we still were going to steam clean the carpets. After the job, she was really blown away. Using Host on commercial carpets like this can produce amazing results but you have to follow all the steps and the last one is vacuuming the Host out. Sounds and looks like Will has that down pat.

 

[Papa John]

Hum-- I hope you guys who use HOST are wearing respirators!-- Or do you like inhaling solvent laced particles?

 

[dealtimeman]

So can I expect a pickup truck to come get this trailer?

 

[Mikey P]

Find him a primo SS

With no service bulletins

 

[Onfire_02_01]

Its because there IS NO Extraction/removal of contaminates!
- Sorry Mikey! I couldn't help myself to jump in.

Isn't that what the pre and especially the post vacuum is all about? My understanding is that the the remaining soiling is encapsulated and then a post vacuum when dry is necessary to remove the encap+soil.

 

[Onfire_02_01]

The deeper soils need to be penetrated. Encapping lays the fibers over on each other not allowing penetraion to the nap.

Those soils also need stronger product because they themselves are already concentrated

Using a brush instead of bonnets as a first step helps as it does with hwe but I often prespray again after cleaning an area I see those shadows. It's why I charge extra on trashed carpet.

And how come nobody ever offered me a truck mount knowing I was running a bane?

When you are using the crb doesn't that bring the encap down the fibers and the loose soil up the fibers to be wiped away by the follow up bonnet and all layers vacuumed away by the follow up vacuuming?

 

[Onfire_02_01]

John is correct.

Lots of soil left down at the roots

What is the reasoning for the soil left down at the bottom? Is there a flaw in the chemistry that doesn't allow the encap down to the bottom of the fibers? If you pre vacuum the carpet 80% of the soil should be removed. The remaining 20% should be touched by the encap by either the crb scrubbing the carpet or the bonnets describing/wiping the dirt away. Then there is the post vacuum that should take away the remainder. Now I can see if the full process isn't being followed that there would be significant soil remaining. But if the process is followed correctly what specifically is the shortcoming?