Yeah, but was the customer happy and did he make money?

[Ron Werner]

I've seen this comment several times.
Got me thinking;

Who is the professional and why would I let the customer tell me how to do my work?
Why would I, as a professional cleaner, accept the standard set by someone who knows next to nothing about my work?

 

[Burtz]

every body knows how to vacuum

 

[Ron Werner]

not in my experience, and its not about vacuuming, everyone can push a vacuum, but who's setting the standard?

Would a builder let the customer tell him how to build a house?

 

[Dolly Llama]

I've seen this comment several times.
Got me thinking;

Who is the professional and why would I let the customer tell me how to do my work?
Why would I, as a professional cleaner, accept the standard set by someone who knows next to nothing about my work?

I donno
I was surprised to see your comment about not vaccing some jobs cause it wouldn't fit their budget

wasn't that you, Ron?

personally, I don't see a thing wrong with that either.
I sleep well at night knowing I've given the custy options and guidance of what is "best" in my professional opinion.
What "they" choose is up to them.
My job is to give them what "they" want

That might be the whole dog and pony show, might be a scrub 'n run sCampoo or anything in between

naw'mean?


..L.T.A.

 

[Burtz]

so you take all day to vacuum a house and your proud of it.
it's not like a real skill or some thing. yes you love your dirt cup.

 

[carpetcleaner]

I'm not sure if this is part of a different conversation or not.

Home builers let you have a lot of say in how your house will be built. Around here, I made all the decisions about the quality of carpet, paint, cabinets, tile or vinyl flooring. I picked how much insulation, type of AC/heat and the SEER rating. The list went on and on. I rarely do business with any company that tells me what I need without giving me choices or options of $.

 

[Brian R]

I've seen this comment several times.
Got me thinking;

Who is the professional and why would I let the customer tell me how to do my work?
Why would I, as a professional cleaner, accept the standard set by someone who knows next to nothing about my work?

Oh, I don't know, maybe because they are paying you and you are working for them. Without them you would have to stay home all day and vacuum your own carpet.

 

[Ken Snow]

LOLOL- good one Brian!

 

[GeneMiller]

I ask the customer what she wants and is expecting and I tell her the cost. I almost never discuss how I'm going to accomplish it. They are the boss but I decide how it's done.

gene

 

[Ron Werner]

forgot, I have to be VERY specific in my statements/questions.
Yes, a builder would give you options for carpets and cabinets etc etc, I had in mind the actual structure of the house.
Lets say the owner wanted a cheaper foundation, or wanted to only use 2x4's for joices, a builder would be held liable if that house ever crashed down.

Yes, there have been some jobs where I've offered to clean without "me" vacuuming and just relying on their vacuuming. I never like doing it and I tell them it won't produce the best result, but it fits their budget. I clean maybe 6 houses like that a year, if that many. But how many "start" from that position?
How many tell the customer their carpets are clean as possible but they skip a few steps BECAUSE thats how they clean and the customer doesn't know any different? Guess I should be asking this on ***, talking to the choir here.

 

[steve frasier]

I once put in a bid for a 2 day a week janitorial account

the guy asked me why the bid was so high

I told him the bid was so high because they were doing the cleaning the other 3 days of the week

he looked me square in the eye for what seems like quite a while trying to figure out what that meant

then said you got the job, been cleaning the place for 10 years

 

[Hoody]

This is an interesting topic, but here is something to think about.

If the client is new they've called you because they're not happy with previous service. There are a lot of scrub and run guys out there, and unfortunately our new clientele are more than likely accustomed to that experience. They now have a mindset on how the job should be done to get the end result that they're looking for, all based on what the other guy didn't do.

When you're passionate about what you do; sometimes its hard to not take situations like this personal. When a new client comes to you, they may have to be "de-programmed" from all of the bad information they've gotten from other cleaners, the bad propaganda from chem-dry, and they need a better experience than what they've received in the past. Don't take offense to what the client assumes that needs to be done, simply ask them why they think so, and kindly educate. People are not dumb, and when you're able to use simple logic with them more often than not you'll win.

On the same hand, not everyone that calls you wants the whole pony show - tiered pricing comes to mind.

 

[Brian R]

I concur

 

[floorguy]

I agree to...

I have had multipule jobs, where i come in and do MY job, and the custy is like :shock: Thats how its suppose to look/be??? Joes company never did it or had it look that way!!!!

Other times, i come in and ask them what and how they want it..

DO you want it clean? and dont care the method??

Also as hoody said, not everyone wants the pony show...NOR CAN THEY AFFORD IT!!!!

I ask/tell my commercial clients this all the time..."its your money how and when do you want to spend it" I can suggest what they do, but in the end its their money and place.

 

[ruff]

What also comes to mind is how much of a difference the the Ron's horse and pony show actually makes?

I am talking proven results like faster re soiling a lot more dirt left in carpet etc.

I doubt that there is much difference.

I am willing to bet that the actual difference in cleaning results between Ron’s semi religious experience and a cleaner that vacuums decently, uses high flow rinsing, slow passes with good suction, are going to be minimal if at all.

When you talk about perceived difference in the clients’ mind, now, that is a different story!

However, that is about marketing and not proven, measurable, scientific cleaning results.

Don't worry
Be happy

and if not you can always: Go vacuum like crazy or...
Get Happy.

 

[Ron Werner]

why is it "vacuuming like crazy" when I'm take the time that's needed to remove as much soil dry as possible? Why am I crazy for doing something that we are supposed to be doing, removing the soil.
I've seen so many comments "I can get is "just" as clean in half the time. Well, the soil only comes out so fast. If I could do it in less time, I would. I've vacuumed places larger in half the time that I spent in that ONE instance simply because there wasn't as much soil.

So when someone phones me for a quote, yes, I have to reprogram their mind as to what to expect.
Before I got in this industry I knew nothing; thought a shampoo method out of a spray can was how it was done. Then I was taught:
the machine will suck up the soil.
I can clean and rinse with the same solution.
Those black line along the wall are permanent
it will be wet for a couple days
A whole house can be cleaned in 1.5hrs WITH a portable
the customer can vacuum ahead and that will remove the dry soil

These are ALL excuses so the cleaner can move faster and get in more jobs. Like one guy who cleaned 10 jobs in a day! My hero!! NOT.

Then I learned;
it can be dry in a few hours
home owners vacuuming NOR the cleaning machine will remove the dry soil sufficiently
the black lines can come out, with effort
a whole house can take 3-4hrs
cleaning upholstery doesn't need to leave tide lines
and a whole wack of other things

I learned doing it right takes some effort, and that not everyone is willing to put in the effort. So they make an excuse and justify it.
Why can't cleaners be honest and just say, yes, this is how its supposed to be cleaned and this is what it will cost.
Oh, your budget doesn't allow for that? That's fine Ma'am, I can meet your budget but "this" is I'll have to leave out this and this.

Otherwise, we get videos online of some guys showing others "HOW its done" and they are doing a half assed job. ie the other post of the guy restretching and cleaning that rental.

 

[hogjowl]

Ron:

I will admit that I sometimes get lost in the vacuuming process too. Seriously. On slow days when I don't have another customer waiting on me, I will sometimes get in a trance while vacuuming and do it for so long that I over stay my profitability window. I don't mind most times because I only have that job to do that day and it's satisfying to give my customer what is, in my mind, a superior job. However, I can also find myself having days when I have 4 or 5 jobs to do and I have to vacuum like normal and get the job done. I am still giving superior cleaning relative to my competition, but not as good as it could be if I had all day. Surely you can see my point that it's ok to be anal if you don't have to move on to satisfy another customer.

Hoodie makes another good point. There are some customers who will call you because they have heard they can trust you to give good, honest service. However, they may not be in the position to be able to comfortably pay your top dollar and those customers really appreciate it when you offer them a way to lessen their bill. My experience has been that I spend around 25% of my time on the job vacuuming. If I get any sense from the customer that my bill is stressing them I will offer to discount it by that figure if they will do the vacuuming themselves. Yes, I also let them know that the bugs they leave in the corners and the cobb webs they leave on the baseboards may still be there when I leave and would otherwise not be, but they seem appreciative that I was honest with them and let them save that money.

I do this NOT because I am trying to be a cheap cleaner. I do it because I can't make a living being a detail cleaner. I HAVE to be able to give options or I would starve in my market.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Ron I see one flaw in your approach. Even if you don't get all the dry soil out it should 't matter anyways. Educate the customer on the importance of vacuuming and set them up on a daily or every other day vacuum plan and they will eventually get out what you left behind. You have mentioned that it is impossible to extract a wet hair. No it isn't. Just remove your glide or tell the customer to do a post vacuum the next day. Problem solved.

 

[Brian R]

Ron:

I will admit that I sometimes get lost in the vacuuming process too. Seriously. On slow days when I don't have another customer waiting on me, I will sometimes get in a trance while vacuuming and do it for so long that I over stay my profitability window. I don't mind most times because I only have that job to do that day and it's satisfying to give my customer what is, in my mind, a superior job. However, I can also find myself having days when I have 4 or 5 jobs to do and I have to vacuum like normal and get the job done. I am still giving superior cleaning relative to my competition, but not as good as it could be if I had all day. Surely you can see my point that it's ok to be anal if you don't have to move on to satisfy another customer.

Hoodie makes another good point. There are some customers who will call you because they have heard they can trust you to give good, honest service. However, they may not be in the position to be able to comfortably pay your top dollar and those customers really appreciate it when you offer them a way to lessen their bill. My experience has been that I spend around 25% of my time on the job vacuuming. If I get any sense from the customer that my bill is stressing them I will offer to discount it by that figure if they will do the vacuuming themselves. Yes, I also let them know that the bugs they leave in the corners and the cobb webs they leave on the baseboards may still be there when I leave and would otherwise not be, but they seem appreciative that I was honest with them and let them save that money.

I do this NOT because I am trying to be a cheap cleaner. I do it because I can't make a living being a detail cleaner. I HAVE to be able to give options or I would starve in my market.

Well said

 

[Ron Werner]

Ron I see one flaw in your approach. Even if you don't get all the dry soil out it should 't matter anyways. Educate the customer on the importance of vacuuming and set them up on a daily or every other day vacuum plan and they will eventually get out what you left behind. You have mentioned that it is impossible to extract a wet hair. No it isn't. Just remove your glide or tell the customer to do a post vacuum the next day. Problem solved.

Good excuse. So, you would leave hair all over their carpet and tell them its clean?

Yes, I do educate them, but their vacuum is usually a POS compared to mine, in most cases.
But here we have a perfect example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTshIR-X ... r_embedded
IS this how you vacuum in a clients house?

I guess I must be anal, I have a hard time doing work one way in one house and another way in another, JUST because of time and money. I price accordingly, and obviously because of time I won't be able to do 5 jobs in a day. I can't, in my own ethics, work differently. If I have to, ie they are going to call in some budget cleaner that I know I could out clean even without vacuuming, I'll offer that.

I guess what sticks in my craw about all this is the irony that we argue over what works best; which tools, which hose, which truck or porty, which chemistry, and even which vacuum, we critique a video because he's not doing things "right", etc etc etc, yet are so quick to clean in a way we call hackish on here because the "customer" wants just a "quick" clean because they don't want to spend the money yet they B&C if it doesn't look good afterward.
Guess I'll be quiet about it and just chuckle to myself when the issues come up from time to time and I know it could have been solved with just a little more effort, not necessarily with post padding etc, but with better prep work. Gees, the amount of effort it takes to post pad a carpet can simply be avoided with extra prep.
Painting is a good comparison. Yes, ma'am, I can paint you room in 20 min, or in 2 days (1 day prep-1 day painting) One will cost more, but last 20x longer.
Or all the talk about cleaning for "health"! More irony.

 

[sweendogg]

The problem is Daniel with that ideology, you can impact certain soils if the are not removed beforehand.

But the end line is we all want to make money, we all want happy customers turned Happy Cheerleaders and we all want to have excellent results to set us aside from the other services.

Ron you understand the dry soil removal part bettern than most cleaners. ( And it didn't take working in a Rug plant to make you a believer.) Dry soil is the largest part and I've yet to vacuum a home where I didn't walk out with 2 full dust cups. And I'm not going that slow either. I like to monitor the bad areas and hit them till nothing else comes out.

Yet, it seems this is the first service that gets dumped because when price is an issue. My question is is there something else we can adjust/not do to get the better production times while still leaving room for dry soil removal?

Well instead if you count the number of times you cover the same sqft, with dry vac, presrpay, agitate, rinse and post groom, you are looking at covering the same sqft 5 times. Do we always need prepsray... on light soil, not necessarily of you can use something like a soap free product through the truckmount rinse. (does a heck of a job) Even a non residual rinse detergent/emulsifier can be used in certain situations.

Another option in heavily soiled areas is to use either a groomer for slight agitation, don't agitate lightly soiled areas, or in heavily soiled areas, used a rotary extractor to get the agitation and rinsing in one step.

There are a lot of different little ways to get the bill down for a customer, even if its not cleaning as much or doing it in a two parts.

We all know which steps we personally need to emphasize on to get the results that give use the Happy Cheerleader, so only through communicating with our customer and discussing the different options and needs will you be able to come to a mutal agreement.

And its always different customer to customer. I for one would never not prevacuum at the house of the guy who has pets/children. But the old lady who gets bored and vacuums for fun, I may say it doesn't need it... (and they are the one's who go so slow they almost get all of the crud out.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Just give the carpet a good vacuum, clean it, and charge a fair price. Why is this so complicated? There is another issue here. Try to figure it out.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

No Ron I would vacuum the carpet and remove the hair and that would take about 15-20 minutes to do three rooms. If I don't get all the soil out I could care less. The carpet will look great and I will instruct the customer to vac a couple times a week.

 

[hogjowl]

Don't be silent about it Ron. I appreciate your remarks and completely understand your thoughts on the subject. I respect you for your commitment to quality cleaning. However, in like manner, don't think bad of me or think I am thinking bad of you when I bring to your attention that your position will limit your growth potential and the market share you will be able to gain.

There has to be a balance between time spent on the job and the amount of money your customer base can afford to spend.

My company motto is "Service sells cleaning." That's not really true. Price sells cleaning in my market, but I am trying to educate my customers away from that thought process.

 

[Ryan]

I know I'm chiming in here late, but my parents have remodeled and flipped houses for most of my life. After some of the crap I seen I WILL be telling my builder how to build my house. I think a lot of people have the same idea about carpet cleaning. Give 'em what they want and be sure to charge accordingly.

 

[Ron Werner]

Thanks Martin.
SInce I started on my own 16yrs ago, my biggest question has been What's it worth?
Then as I learned about "busn" and profit I realized I could either speed up or leave out some steps in order to get through more jobs in a day or I could charge more. With this industry being regarded as a commodity by the public, its hard to separate from the pack if I'm doing the same work and charging about the same. Why should they hire me over EZClean when he can be in and out, make it look clean, and charge half as much?
My answer was in the quality of the work. EZ got many complaints but also many repeats.
Then Bob got me on this board and some of the best cleaners I've been fortunate enough to share with. This board keeps raising the bar. I'm just trying to keep up sometimes.

You NOW know how to build a house Ryan, so now, when you spot someone skipping steps or skimping on materials you know the difference. With carpet cleaning most people haven't a clue, they've NEVER seen anyone do it properly, they have no reference.

 

[Ron Werner]

Just give the carpet a good vacuum, clean it, and charge a fair price. Why is this so complicated? There is another issue here. Try to figure it out.

no other issues Daniel, just defining those two terms. And it ain't complicated at all, not even rocket science. Makes me wonder why there are so many unsatisfied customers out there.

 

[J Scott W]

I've seen this comment several times.
Got me thinking;

Who is the professional and why would I let the customer tell me how to do my work?
Why would I, as a professional cleaner, accept the standard set by someone who knows next to nothing about my work?

The answer is becuase they are the customer.

Walk into a clothing store and the clerk wants to tell you which shirt, slacks or suit to buy. You may want to take his advice, maybe not. Should he sell you what you want or shoudl he be thinking, "Who is the professional and why would I let the customer tell me what clothes to buy. He knows nothing about designing clothing ro current style. ...

 

[Brian R]

Ron,
I think most of us who feel strongly about anything Carpet Cleaning related are at risk of feeling redundant. The cool thing is there are plenty of newbies seeing what you are saying and at the very least are thinking about how a carpet should be cleaned. Whether it be over the top or not it isn't going to hurt the carpet. Will it hurt the bottom line? If you let it. I like that most of the time you talk about your crazy vacuum habits that you also talk about charging more because of it. that's a good thing.

Let's face it, time is money and there is no denying that...not even a little bit.
If you want to do "extra" for your customer...you had better be ready to charge "extra".

I just like the opposite view of the vacuuming because I really don't think it needs to be so ...again...over the top.

Now let's talk about the name of your company. :mrgreen:
That's my area of interest really.

 

[Ron Werner]

I hear you Brian, it just hits me every now and then, esp when I see posts like Does it drive you nutzzzzz and the Berber thread.
For the newbies, start from the best, find out what service you want to provide, charge accordingly. Definitely DON'T undercharge!

If I didn't see the need for it Brian, I wouldn't be vacuuming as it does take up time. If I didn't see wicking issues happening because of the fine soil left in the carpet vacuuming wouldn't be an issue.

What interestes you about the name?