You'd never think I'd ask this

[Joel D]

some say i just vacced i say sounds good and skip it.

usually my wife vacs while i set up

many said we were the only ones to vac and use a fan. we have to differenciate ourselves from the competition thats huge

 

[Loren Egland]

It still amazes me at how some feel about pre-vac'n...this is the most basic step in carpet cleaning and to me is a must. Let's face it...dry soil is easier to remove than wet soil...I pre-vac all jobs and it usually doesn't take more than 5-10 minutes (average residential job). And a lot of custy's comment on how I'm the 1st cleaner to do it..."Thanx!".

So, it's an easy step in the process...it helps the cleaning, and it can impress custy's who you're trying to show you care...i don't care how many cfm's your TM's are getting, it's hackish to not vac :!:

I am not so sure that dry soil is easier to remove than wet soil.

If that were always true, why would all cleaning methods used in this industry use some moisture?

And why not just dry vacuum after you have wet cleaned if you feel you need to remove the dry soil with a vacuum cleaner instead of a wet flushing vacuum? Wet soil eventually becomes dry soil, right?

I'm just thinking to myself, maybe mud cleans better than dry soil.

Of course I could be wrong.

 

[rhino1]

well...let's see, if i'm doing 3BR's, LR/DR...BR's are what? 100 sq ft of "exposed" carpet (at most)...DR's are not big, and LR...come on...10 minutes is not that fast for that much...but yes, if i have an empty 5 BR house, LR, GR, DR, halls, stairs, then yes, it'll take longer. But if there are guys out there spending 45mins to an hour to vac an average job...they are just plain SLOW! And if they don't pre-vac at all...then they are just plain HACKS! And this coming from a Chem-Dry guy, so you know it's true! :shock:

Sure, and that will make up for 200 psi ATW, right?

 

[sweendogg]

It still amazes me at how some feel about pre-vac'n...this is the most basic step in carpet cleaning and to me is a must. Let's face it...dry soil is easier to remove than wet soil...I pre-vac all jobs and it usually doesn't take more than 5-10 minutes (average residential job). And a lot of custy's comment on how I'm the 1st cleaner to do it..."Thanx!".

So, it's an easy step in the process...it helps the cleaning, and it can impress custy's who you're trying to show you care...i don't care how many cfm's your TM's are getting, it's hackish to not vac :!:

I am not so sure that dry soil is easier to remove than wet soil.

If that were always true, why would all cleaning methods used in this industry use some moisture?

And why not just dry vacuum after you have wet cleaned if you feel you need to remove the dry soil with a vacuum cleaner instead of a wet flushing vacuum? Wet soil eventually becomes dry soil, right?

I'm just thinking to myself, maybe mud cleans better than dry soil.

Of course I could be wrong.

Do this test: Take two pieces of carpet, soil them equally with sand, soil grit and oil.

Let them dry out for a week. Then vacuum one very thoroughly and then extract it. Only extract the other one. Now turn upside down and use a beater bar brush on the back and then vacuum the front and see how much was missed when you went straight to extraction. This dry grittys soil that most likely came out after you exract is the stuff that wears out the carpet.

Most cleaning methods as you mention above, use some type of moisture or liquid solvent. This isn't meant to attack the dry soil. Its meant to emulsify, saponify and seperate the oily soils from the carpet fibers that may be holding fibers together or collecting dry soil .

 

[Loren Egland]

It is probably not that simple Sweendog. To many scenarios when it comes to cleaning. Machines, tools such as rotaries, chemicals, time, heat, agitation, cfm, lift, etc. Maybe there is no sand in the carpet, and if there is much sand, it will not all come out with vacuuming anyway, but it may have become part of the backing.

How many carpets have you cleaned that you turned upside down and beat it? Probably none wall to wall. So even if you vacuumed it first instead of after the cleaning, you will likely get to see that even if vacuumed at any time, you will also see what comes out of the carpet. It is simply not practical to take a wall to wall carpet up, turn it over, and beat it from behind.

However, if it is that simple, then just vacuum the dry soil out after cleaning instead of before.

After all, you have already "emulsified, saponified and separated the oily soils from the carpet fibers that may be holding fibers together or collecting dry soil."

I am not against prevacuuming when necessary, any more than I am against any other procedure, tool, or chemical that will improve the cleaning results. It doesn't matter how you get those results. There is more than one way to skin a cat. No matter how it is done, the cat gets skinned.

I use a fly swatter to kill a fly, but an elephant gun to kill an elephant. Make sense?

 

[LeeCory]

Someone has to be honest and help Ron out.

Vacuuming the carpet before carpet cleaning is something that can be done pretty quickly unless there is an out of the ordinary need.

This question is a cry for help. He needs a 12 step program to get off the vacuum.

If I am out of line and all his customers enjoy watching him vacuum all day, I am sorry....

P.S. I used to have a girl named Jen as a helper. One day a wealthy customer said to her as she was vacuuming "you're a good vacuumer" as she walked by. She was actually for some reason very insulted by the statement and still complains of it to this day. Moral of the story: Nobody wants to be simply known as a good vacuumer.

 

[Brian R]

Amen

 

[ACE]

Ron, You should have thought about this before you made the you tube video of vacuuming that 400 sq. Ft. for an hour.

 

[Brian R]

I can't believe I got into another vac or no vac thread.


It's like the tootsie-roll tootsie-pop....the world may never know. :roll:

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Ron I appreciate your business model but if you want to make more money, do a quality job, and feel good at the end of the day then you are going to have to do two things. First get a part time helper and pay a percentage. Second either run specials or just lower your price slightly. Oh one more thing; try advertising your specials. People may like you now but if you can offer a similar service for less then they will LOVE you and refer you a lot more. Just having someone to set up while you are talking to the customer and prevac in front of you should make a HUGE difference. You will be more productive and actually make more money. If you are cleaning 8-10 houses on a weekly basis try bumping it up to 15 with a helper. You will be able to take a three hour job and get it done in less than 2. My business model is just what I mentioned except I rely on referrals, but I do plan on advertising just a little more. Then again I like taking a couple days a week off and when you advertise you really can't do that and make a decent profit. If you feel like you aren't doing enough business to justify hiring someone try hiring someone with a part time job possibly and evening job and schedule all your jobs in the morning and early afternoon or vice versa. Your business model is based on referrals and being known as the best in your area and it may take years to achieve the clientelle to make what a high production company makes right from the get go.

 

[sweendogg]

I think he started this thread just to watch us a squirm.. I have yet to read his responce to this thread.

And loren the point was not to say that you are right or wrong. But I know from my experience, the carpet that I vacuumed will always drop less soil out that the carpet that was not vacuumed and that holds true for both carpets that are steamed cleaned or even rugs that have been pit soaked, worked over for 8 hrs and then high pressure washed and extracted again with the truckmount. Dry soil is better attacked with a dry removal source before going to a wet cleaning.

 

[Ron Werner]

been distracted with daughter and work all weekend, and in catching up on posts.
Along with vacuuming too much, sometimes, more often than not, I over think too much. This post I was thinking "out loud".
I've seen this debate over and over during the past 15yrs, lots of well established busy companies that don't prevac, lots of hacks that don't prevac, a few guys that do, more guys vacuuming now than 10 yrs ago.
The video job was an exception to the norm, most aren't like that.
A lot of times I'll answer my own question on the next few jobs, like Sat when vacuuming furn and getting an inch of really heavy dust, or basement room with a lot of actual soil. I see what I got out, realize that had I steam cleaned only, most of that would have remained or taken longer to flush out.
I'll try moving the vac faster, thing is to watch the canister, not the floor, and watch for the exceptionally soiled areas, like kitchen entrances, infront of chairs, or beside beds, top of stairs. tile-carpet interfaces.
I know the Sebo grooms slower than a good grooming brush, but its more thorough as well.
Lots to consider. Thanks.

The benefit of this board is the quality of the cleaners on it. I know I can ask a question such as this and get quality feedback and not just some stanley dude saying its all a waste and that he can clean 4 rooms in the time it takes me to do 6 stairs.

 

[bob vawter]

Hey Ron....
its all a waste and i can clean 4 rooms in the time it takes you to do 6 stairs.

 

[sweendogg]

Damn glad your retired. bawb... Bawb your still retired right?

 

[Ron Werner]

I'm always evaluating and re-evaluating.
What happens is that in re-evaluating things, most times I get stronger in my convictions.
I did vacuum a little faster today though, slowed down where I saw the soil coming in. Still took about an hour to get it all done.
I did get the job done sooner than I normally do. Been cleaning their house for the past 10+yrs. She was saying she needs to trust the person in her house.

Thanks again guys.

and Bob, if you could move through 4 rooms in the time it takes me to do 6 stairs, you're a hack.

 

[LeeCory]

"and Bob, if you could move through 4 rooms in the time it takes me to do 6 stairs, you're a hack."

Not true, I think most guys can clean 4 rooms inside an hour.

 

[Chris A]

Vacuuming makes $en$e for my business model, I am on the high end of the middle of my market. Now I do not take hours to vacuum, nor do I fly through it either, I guess I'm just somewhere in the middle, making money.