Cleaner died here this morning unnecessarily

[Blue Monarch]

Been using a detector for a few years. Wind in wrong direction and custy opening window on other end of house can cause a problem situation.

 

[Buck1955]

Sad. Our fundraiser uses Firstgivings website for donations, maybe his family could set something up there.

 

[Billy]

I'm sorry billy. I strongly disagree! CO is a heavy gas. And with most tms that gas is forced out the front of the machine. Co levels could be fairly low near the van. But extreamly high is the lower parts of a home. I'd also wonder. With sucking large volumes of air out of a house while cleaning, well that air gets replaced. If a guy sets up wrong. He is just sucking co into the house.

That is OK your entitled to your opinion. I do understand CO weight is effected by temperature of the air. Isn't it that Carbon monoxide gas is lighter when cold, but heavier when hot? in my early days when I sometimes parked to close to house not taking into account the winds & obstructions we set off CO Detectors that were ceiling mounted in clients house so I would assume it is possible to fill any space with CO although I don't claim to be an expert.

Now my situation is different with the box & we don't have the detector mounted on the ceiling either. Actually it is a little high though since I left it portable for digital readout, but based on what has transpired I just ordered a second one to actually use portable when needed & I will mount the one in truck more permanent now.

I will stick by my belief that even though no one can say with 100% accuracy a CO Detector would have saved his life, even 1% chance was enough for me.

I am a little obsessive on safety though so Im sure some would question many of my choices.

 

[Becker]

Co detector at van is useless. Most tm operators would have way to many false alarms. Co detector in the house would have saved his life. Remember. You run a truck powered machine. Most cars and trucks release very little co.

 

[Blue Monarch]

It's only useless at the van for knowing what the home levels are Beck! Sure as hell is useful for me to know the levels in my cab when I pull out.

 

[Becker]

Your gunna die cleaning. Not leaving a job. I've never heard of a cleaner having issues in he truck. But time and time again. Cleaner passes out while at the wand.

I'd rather have some alert while wanding. So much cfm blows out the front of my machines carbon build up is zero concern in the vehicle. Once the machine is shut down. Side and rear doors open, any co will sink out.

Wanding away he would be dead before he heard or saw an alert at or near the truck.

The main point is. It is just plain stupid to park in an I enclosed space. Even with the garage door open.

 

[Spurlington]

To me, it looks like he took out the 175 pad driver and mop bucket to make room for a small heater.

I would say he was using a truckmount with fresh water tank, If it was an ETM- I would think he would use house power, and it wasn't a portable, most guys don't have hose reels and shelves with a portable.

From the pic, you can see the grey 2" hose and grey pressure line on the ground





View attachment 3743

Good Eye Carpet Guy !!! I also think he was running a space heater .. sticker on the cord prolly says don't use crappy extension cord too.

 

[Billy]

Your gunna die cleaning. Not leaving a job. I've never heard of a cleaner having issues in he truck. But time and time again. Cleaner passes out while at the wand.

I'd rather have some alert while wanding. So much cfm blows out the front of my machines carbon build up is zero concern in the vehicle. Once the machine is shut down. Side and rear doors open, any co will sink out.

Wanding away he would be dead before he heard or saw an alert at or near the truck.

The main point is. It is just plain stupid to park in an I enclosed space. Even with the garage door open.

Again with Garage Closed The CO filled the Garage & Van most likely, although from pics I haven't been able to completely determine what machine he was using portable or Truck Mount. If it was a portable with genset, based on the cord running in the rear doors it could have easily been placed outside the garage door. I have never run any setup with a genset though so I may be missing something. The witness said the house smelled like exhaust when he entered, if I remember correct so it was everywhere most likely until aired out. By your analogy you are saying it was below safe levels the entire time it was filling the garage & house which if that is true a CO Detector in the van would have never alerted him.

Now with that said I wouldn't have volunteered to stay in the van for any length of time based on your assumption. Now your analogy does make more sense with a slide in running from the doors out in the open. In the past when I have had no choice where to hook up I have used air movement to keep the inside areas safe along with detectors


I just spent a whole 21.00 on an extra CO detector so if it never does anything I didn't lose much. But the truck one has let me know if CO rises inside the box while running which has been well worth the cost.

 

[Mardie]

I could never figure out why TMs do not have emission standards such as vehicles have. The raw pollution TMs produce is horrendous .

 

[Becker]

Do you have co issues in your box running the aerotech, or elevated co?

I am not debating using a co detector at the van. Any money spent on safety for you. Your staff and clients is well spent.

A co detector at the work area would be more effective. IMO. Like I said. We have all head stories of cleaners passing out at the wand.

However in all the cases I've heard of. They could have been prevented by not parking in enclosed spaces. Or vans directly exhausting into a doorway or window.

Other cases we hear of are during power outages. People using charcoal BBQ indoors for heat. Or using generators in garages because they are afraid if theft.

 

[Jim Martin]

Again with Garage Closed The CO filled the Garage & Van most likely, although from pics I haven't been able to completely determine what machine he was using portable or Truck Mount. If it was a portable with genset, based on the cord running in the rear doors it could have easily been placed outside the garage door. I have never run any setup with a genset though so I may be missing something. The witness said the house smelled like exhaust when he entered, if I remember correct so it was everywhere most likely until aired out. By your analogy you are saying it was below safe levels the entire time it was filling the garage & house which if that is true a CO Detector in the van would have never alerted him.

Now with that said I wouldn't have volunteered to stay in the van for any length of time based on your assumption. Now your analogy does make more sense with a slide in running from the doors out in the open. In the past when I have had no choice where to hook up I have used air movement to keep the inside areas safe along with detectors


I just spent a whole 21.00 on an extra CO detector so if it never does anything I didn't lose much. But the truck one has let me know if CO rises inside the box while running which has been well worth the cost.

Tell me how it is possible for a A/T unit it get CO in the box with the side door wide open and the exhaust from the truck way under the box pointing down at the ground....Or in your case re-directed to the other non working side of the box.................

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I could never figure out why TMs do not have emission standards such as vehicles have. The raw pollution TMs produce is horrendous .

You wouldn't know.

TM engines have always met EPA carb standards for pollution. The "raw pollution" comment is BS.

Mardie this conversation has been focused on Carbon Monoxide, a combustion byproduct of all hydrocarbon fuel use.

Park your Prius running in an enclosed garage and the result will be just as certain and deadly as any gas engine.

 

[Mardie]

You wouldn't know.

TM engines have always met EPA carb standards for pollution. The "raw pollution" comment is BS.

Mardie this conversation has been focused on Carbon Monoxide, a combustion byproduct of all hydrocarbon fuel use.

Park your Prius running in an enclosed garage and the result will be just as certain and deadly as any gas engine.

But not the same level of standards as vehicles . Your gas lawn mower is also EPA compliant. But yet they produce a horrendous amount of raw pollution. Is that ok NO!

 

[Billy]

Do you have co issues in your box running the aerotech?

No not anymore.

 

[Becker]

Surprised you ever did. Extremely surprised.

 

[bob vawter]

long long time ago...i had a buddy seal up his garage with towels and blankets...
started up his car....
and they found him the next morning

 

[Becker]

Ok billy. Besides adding a co detector to your box. You say you no longer have issues. But did. So what other steps have you taken?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

But not the same level of standards as vehicles . Your gas lawn mower is also EPA compliant. But yet they produce a horrendous amount of raw pollution. Is that ok NO!

So you use an electric lawn mower?

 

[Mardie]

So you use an electric lawn mower?

Then I guess you should be using an electric TM. I have never seen a catalytic converter on any TM. Or do they come in the invisible kind. Why do you not acknowledge the low level pollution controls on TMs ?

 

[Billy]

Ok billy. Besides adding a co detector to your box. You say you no longer have issues. But did. So what other steps have you taken?

LOL I don't say, I know I don't have a CO issue anymore because mine is taken care of & tested in use with monitoring. It would be a long story & way off the current subject but none of the steps I took are needed by anyone else that I know of at this point.

 

[FredC]

Then I guess you should be using an electric TM. I have never seen a catalytic converter on any TM. Or do they come in the invisible kind. Why do you not acknowledge the low level pollution controls on TMs ?

http://www.sapphirescientific.com/Content_003.aspx?cid=1377


now you have.................and there are other slide ins....not to mention ALL the direct drives

 

[Becker]

Then I guess you should be using an electric TM. I have never seen a catalytic converter on any TM. Or do they come in the invisible kind. Why do you not acknowledge the low level pollution controls on TMs ?

My 405 has one.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Then I guess you should be using an electric TM. I have never seen a catalytic converter on any TM. Or do they come in the invisible kind. Why do you not acknowledge the low level pollution controls on TMs ?

You didn't answer my question Mardie, so I take that as an admission you DON'T have an electric mower.

By the way, if I may waste a little more effort trying to educate you, my gas 405's DO have catalytic converters...imagine that. Just like other Nissans. For at least the last decade.

 

[Jim Martin]

My 405 has one.

both my machines have them..........so the only problem I see is if you park in a garage....or have a A/T.....

 

[Becker]

Well. Perhaps my thermalwave has one. Not looked to closely at it. If it does it is not like the one one the 405.

I know my current machines burn cleaner than my past machines. 20-25hp Hondas and kolhers.

But then and now. When I drive up to a house or job. I consider my machines exhaust based on the layout of the job, and near by homes or buildings.

 

[Mardie]

You didn't answer my question Mardie, so I take that as an admission you DON'T have an electric mower.

By the way, if I may waste a little more effort trying to educate you, my gas 405's DO have catalytic converters...imagine that. Just like other Nissans. For at least the last decade.

I do not own a lawn mower. The landscapers cut my grass and weed my flower beds. I can see the larger water cooled engines having catalytic converters. BUT what about the MAJORITY of TMs which are air cooled. Do they have catalytic converters ??

 

[Goomer]

You didn't answer my question Mardie, so I take that as an admission you DON'T have an electric mower.

As yet another indicator of Mardie's strong preference for outdated technology, he still prefers his trusty bubble mower..........

View attachment 3746

 

[Desk Jockey]

 

[Vivers]

I hate to hear about these sad stories that are unfortunate and unnecessary

 

[Mardie]

I could never figure out why TMs do not have emission standards such as vehicles have. The raw pollution TMs produce is horrendous .

Lee I did answer your lawnmower question silly as it may be. I will ask you again about air cooled TMs and weather or not they have catalytic converters ??