45 vs 47 blower

[Larry Cobb]

Mine has both, now what?

Electric Clutch engages the shaft which turns the blower.

I am talking about PTO's WITHOUT an electric clutch . . .

which is the weak link.

Larry

 

[Art Kelley]

I had 22000 hrs on my '87 electric clutch before the van rusted out and close to 10000 hrs on my present electric clutch on my '03 WM. Just exactly when does the weak link come into play?

 

[Dolly Llama]

Mine has both, now what?

Electric Clutch engages the shaft which turns the blower.

Jus sayin ; )

I "think" Lar is talking about a real PTO (drive shaft/transfer case)
the electric clutch used on TMs is the weak link of the system .
as i understand it, they're good for appx 30-35HP


most manufactures (even backyard ones) can make a pretty reliable TM using 45 and smaller blowers running them at full capacity .
It's when they go bigger and try to run 47, 56, 59 blowers at or near full capacity (lift and RPM) the driveline troubles start..even for the NON backyard manufactures



..L.T.A.

 

[Dolly Llama]

I had 22000 hrs on my '87 electric clutch before the van rusted out and close to 10000 hrs on my present electric clutch on my '03 WM. Just exactly when does the weak link come into play?

when you try to run that blower at, or near it's full capacity .
None of the direct drive TMs run their blowers anywhere near the blower's capacity


..L.T.A.

 

[Art Kelley]

when you try to run that blower at, or near it's full capacity .
None of the direct drive TMs run their blowers anywhere near the blower's capacity


..L.T.A.

I'm pretty sure my vac motor is maxxed out. When I've run the engine RPMs up to 2000 and the lift set at 20" then the belts on the blower start to slip and fail after about 45 minutes, so I keep the RPMs at 1600 and the lift at 16" which it handles easily. I don't know what the vac motor RPMs are but the CFMs seem to be double that of my 230 cfm Air Hog Plus so it would appear that the Roots 56 blower is running at it's 500 cfm capacity.

 

[Russ T.]

Mine has both, now what?

Electric Clutch engages the shaft which turns the blower.

Jus sayin ; )

I think that's what my Cleanco 47 Compact has but this thread is starting to make me feel like an idiot.


The Clean Machine

 

[Dolly Llama]

I'm pretty sure my vac motor is maxxed out. When I've run the engine RPMs up to 2000 and the lift set at 20" then the belts on the blower start to slip and fail after about 45 minutes, so I keep the RPMs at 1600 and the lift at 16" which it handles easily.

only reenforces my point, Art

nowhere near maxed out @2000 RPM..
AND you have problems before you even get near max


..L.T.A.

 

[Jimmy L]

I know damn well I can't run my cleanco 56 at 16hg's because either the clutch (will fail) or more likely the "rubber band" serpentine belt will stretch out inside of a week.

And slip and squeel.

12 hg is my limit

 

[Art Kelley]

only reenforces my point, Art

nowhere near maxed out @2000 RPM..
AND you have problems before you even get near max


..L.T.A.

What I'm saying is the blower just can't go any faster without overheating. It is turning much faster than the 1600 rpm van engine speed. Maybe 2-1, I don't know.White Magic used a water cooling device on the blower for their hi-vac version that was run at 2000 van engine rpms and 20 lift but I don't have that.

 

[juniorc82]

That is because a 47 requires 5 more hp than a 45 to spin at any useful rpm. The 45 doesn't develop 15-16" until a much higher RPM. At 2620rpm the 47 blower is already developing 14" and more cfm than the 45 is capable of......

BUT I have seen what I think is a 39hp 47 blower (direct coupled) option built by Nick...so the power is available...but I still think Larry is FOS

I have a 34 horse 47 blower machine nick built for me and the 34 hp kohler seems to have plenty of power. After doing some resurch the Judson c4 was pushing a 4008 gardner Denver blower on a 30hp briggs if Im not mistaken, the 454ss was using a 35hp briggs or vanguard maybe to push the 4008 also and I think the titan 575 also runs the equivalent. I think
you can get the job done on 30 horse but to push a 47 or more you need to be in the 34-40 range. I normally run mine at 15'' inches and like 3300 rpm seems to run fine for now doesn't struggle one bit even when we got a poodle in the inline filter . Ive heard from several people that running an air cooled engine such as a kohler like mine well below its maximum rpm's is actualy harder on the enging because the cooling fan doesn't draw in as much fresh air to cool the engine. My small engine guy who is a certified kohler dealer and warranty guy said he hears misinformation all the time guys like us are getting fed by truck mount makers and distributors

 

[GCCLee]

Where is Bawb?
Better yet, where's Shawn : )

 

[FredC]

Where is Bawb?

In denial about the limitations of the pitts clutch he uses.......

 

[GCCLee]

In denial about the limitations of the pitts clutch he uses.......

I squirted it with oil once : ) yikes

 

[Dolly Llama]

Ive heard from several people that running an air cooled engine such as a kohler like mine well below its maximum rpm's is actualy harder on the enging because the cooling fan doesn't draw in as much fresh air to cool the engine.s

absolutely true, Jon

30hp is actually plenty to run a 47.
Matter of fact, TM manufactures generally use larger than needed engines simply due to increase heat for HX'ers
...not power needs .
If you look at blower manufacture HP specs needed to drive blowers, you'll be surprised how little they actually require ..
I'll venture a guess a 47 only needs 15 to 18HP...add 4 or 5 HP for the pump and "needs" are actually lower than most realize



it isn't power you're lacking ..it's the torque on the drive line where your issues will manifest.
spinning 47 and up blowers to capacity put WAY more stress on the system


..L.T.A.

 

[GCCLee]

But But..... It's a V8


Be cooler if it was a LS3 : )

Running at max doesn't scare me as much as running at max an letting it run wide open without suckin somethin : )

 

[juniorc82]

absolutely true, Jon

30hp is actually plenty to run a 47.
Matter of fact, TM manufactures generally use larger than needed engines simply due to increase heat for HX'ers
...not power needs .
If you look at blower manufacture HP specs needed to drive blowers, you'll be surprised how little they actually require ..
I'll venture a guess a 47 only needs 15 to 18HP...add 4 or 5 HP for the pump and "needs" are actually lower than most realize



it isn't power you're lacking ..it's the torque on the drive line where your issues will manifest.
spinning 47 and up blowers to capacity put WAY more stress on the system


..L.T.A.

Larry since my 47 machine is a direct coupled slide in with a 34hp kohler, what rpm in your opinion should I be running my unit at for normal use to avoid unwanted wear and tear?

 

[Dolly Llama]

Larry since my 47 machine is a direct coupled slide in with a 34hp kohler, what rpm in your opinion should I be running my unit at for normal use to avoid unwanted wear and tear?

I'd defer to what the manufacture suggests, Jon....since he's the one that built it and warranties it


..L.T.A.

 

[bob vawter]

if the 45 was so good.....WTF would a company spend hundreds of thousands
tooling up for production of a 47....?

ohh...and in 40 years of using an electric clutch...
i have NEVER ever fried one........~

pee s

the trans pto imho has to turn to much of a mass to last a tenth of the time of a direct drive...PLUS are TEN TIMES the cost!

 

[ruff]

only reenforces my point, Art

nowhere near maxed out @2000 RPM..
AND you have problems before you even get near max .L.T.A.

That's all nice and dandy.
However, the good PTO's like the CDs or WM, currently Pro-1200, have plenty of heat and leave the carpet fluffy dry.
So it is really nice to know that the other set ups are all maxed out to their absolute best potential.

But WGAS?

They serve a different niche.
Capiche?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

if the 45 was so good.....WTF would a company spend hundreds of thousands
tooling up for production of a 47....?
All the major manufacturers make and sell lots of both sizes.
ohh...and in 40 years of using an electric clutch...
i have NEVER ever fried one........~

...so you haven't really cleaned that many carpets?

 

[Dolly Llama]

But WGAS?

honestly, i don't

.L.T.A.

 

[bob vawter]

...so you haven't really cleaned that many carpets?

jebus Lee...i cleant a LOT a carpet....

 

[Russ T.]

the trans pto imho has to turn to much of a mass to last a tenth of the time of a direct drive...PLUS are TEN TIMES the cost!

What's the difference between clutch and transmission driven PTO? I think my Cleanco is clutch driven...explain it to me like I'm a 4 year old please :-)
Thanks!


The Clean Machine

 

[bob vawter]

What's the difference between clutch and transmission driven PTO?

about TEN GRAND

 

[GCCLee]

Clutch driven

Rawwr : )

 

[Russ T.]

Thanks Chris. Mine is clutch driven too. Which is better and why? Hope I'm not hijacking this thread ;-)


The Clean Machine

 

[GCCLee]

Thanks Chris. Mine is clutch driven too. Which is better and why? Hope I'm not hijacking this thread ;-)


The Clean Machine

Bawb says so : )

You can get em at the neighborhood autoparts store. that and I can change out a Serp belt in about 30second,s over what I otherwise would image a detonation if anything went wrong : )

Hey, Someone has to do it : )

 

[bob vawter]

ya price a transfer PTO drive........
and get back wit me..........

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Ford has them from 99 on. About 3500.

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[Lee Stockwell]

4r100

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