Can you, will you, have you sperated business from religion?

[XTREME1]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

he was led down the catholic trail but he has been exposed to other religions. I am a non practicing catholic and my wife is a non practicing jew. So he knows what the benefits of religion are and he chose his path,

 

[Goomer]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

did you get sober after that Frank, did you wake up or did you stop taking LSD or did you try to explain the imbalance in chemicals you expereinced?

That was the last ride I ever took. It was a doosie.
Nothing really to try to explain.
I acknowledge it was purely my imagination. Any other attempt at an explanation would be illogical, irrational, and delusional.

 

[Jimbo]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2011/0 ... ve-sinned/

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

he was led down the catholic trail but he has been exposed to other religions. I am a non practicing catholic and my wife is a non practicing jew. So he knows what the benefits of religion are and he chose his path,

I am a 31 year old sexy man and I havent even been exposed to all the religions, I even have google.

What does that mean that you and your wife are non practicing?

 

[Dolly Llama]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

I stopped reading the posts in the middle of page 4 to point out an observation

Brent, what you're teaching your kids is simply another man's viewpoint/thoughts/"feelings" of how HE/THEY thinks the world "should" be

you're no less "indoctrinating" your kids than anyone else.

you "pathless truth" or whatever the quote is you got from some inTelleCtuAl...is baloney .
you only want your kids to be "free thinkers" AS LONG AS it coincides with YOUR views.

Your "pathless truth" is a euphemism for .."I'll believe this is the right way to think until I read something that sounds better"


..L.T.A.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

I stopped reading the posts in the middle of page 4 to point out an observation

Brent, what you're teaching your kids is simply another man's viewpoint/thoughts/"feelings" of how HE/THEY thinks the world "should" be

you're no less "indoctrinating" your kids than anyone else.

you "pathless truth" or whatever the quote is you got from some inTelleCtuAl...is baloney .
you only want your kids to be "free thinkers" AS LONG AS it coincides with YOUR views.

Your "pathless truth" is a euphemism for .."I'll believe this is the right way to think until I read something that sounds better"


..L.T.A.

I dont indocturnate my kids into any ideology that was created by man for the means of control.

Its "truth is a pathless land", it doesnt mean that you should void out all that people say, it to be true to yourself and not just believe something is true because someone said it is or uses the fear of god. This is who I am and like with science does change when new information is learned. I never claim to know it all and teach my kids to use critical thought when presented with information. That is all I hope they learn for a basic fundimental, I will teach them about the world with an unbias view and it will then be up to them to think for themself.... If they turn gay, no problem...if they became christians...no problem, I just want them to have every chance to believe in themself and what they think.

 

[Goomer]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

Freethought is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that opinions should be formed on the basis of science, logic, and reason, and should not be influenced by authority, tradition, or any dogma.[1] The cognitive application of freethought is known as 'freethinking', and practitioners of freethought are known as 'freethinkers'.

Freethought holds that individuals should not accept ideas proposed as truth without recourse to knowledge and reason. Thus, freethinkers strive to build their opinions on the basis of facts, scientific inquiry, and logical principles, independent of any logical fallacies or the intellectually limiting effects of authority, confirmation bias, cognitive bias, conventional wisdom, popular culture, prejudice, sectarianism, tradition, urban legend, and all other dogmas. Regarding religion, freethinkers hold that there is insufficient evidence to support the existence of supernatural phenomena.

A line from "Clifford's Credo" by the 19th Century British mathematician and philosopher William Kingdon Clifford perhaps best describes the premise of freethought: "It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence."

Wikipedia

 

[Ron Werner]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

Do you want to debate opinion or facts?

There aren't really many facts supporting evolution, just a lot of assumptions that happen to contradict the Biblical story. They take a look at nature and then "imagine how it could have happened". They look at how animals "adapt" to changing environmental conditions and then extrapolate that those adaptations could lead to new species.

I dont know about your idea about god surrounds the universe, thats on you to prove it. He doesnt believe it to be a lie because he never had the chance to think anything else other then what he was told to think. Kinda a closed world view of reality in my opinion.

Every school is now a closed world view. You CANNOT discuss anything other than evolution. Every book, every movie, etc TELLS kids that the world is XBillion years old and that this animal came from that animal, etc etc etc.

Talk about control. If you can get the entire world believing that then gov'ts, judges etc have total control, science has total control. He who gains the most control has the control, "natural selection". People become disposable, anything goes "morally".

A Christian is not controlled, there are rules laid down but those are to prevent pain. We live by grace.
According to the defn, IF someone "chose" to follow a religion/faith they are not a freethinker. Bull.

 

[Johnny]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

[quote="Alexander Supertramp":2kqxkrou]Do you want to debate opinion or facts?

There aren't really many facts supporting evolution, just a lot of assumptions that happen to contradict the Biblical story. They take a look at nature and then "imagine how it could have happened". They look at how animals "adapt" to changing environmental conditions and then extrapolate that those adaptations could lead to new species.

I dont know about your idea about god surrounds the universe, thats on you to prove it. He doesnt believe it to be a lie because he never had the chance to think anything else other then what he was told to think. Kinda a closed world view of reality in my opinion.

Every school is now a closed world view. You CANNOT discuss anything other than evolution. Every book, every movie, etc TELLS kids that the world is XBillion years old and that this animal came from that animal, etc etc etc.

Talk about control. If you can get the entire world believing that then gov'ts, judges etc have total control, science has total control. He who gains the most control has the control, "natural selection". People become disposable, anything goes "morally".

A Christian is not controlled, there are rules laid down but those are to prevent pain. We live by grace.
According to the defn, IF someone "chose" to follow a religion/faith they are not a freethinker. Bull.[/quote:2kqxkrou]

+1!

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

[quote="Alexander Supertramp":37kunxmz]Do you want to debate opinion or facts?

There aren't really many facts supporting evolution, just a lot of assumptions that happen to contradict the Biblical story. They take a look at nature and then "imagine how it could have happened". They look at how animals "adapt" to changing environmental conditions and then extrapolate that those adaptations could lead to new species.
Arent many facts supporting evolution? Did your church tell you that "fact"?

I dont know about your idea about god surrounds the universe, thats on you to prove it. He doesnt believe it to be a lie because he never had the chance to think anything else other then what he was told to think. Kinda a closed world view of reality in my opinion.

Every school is now a closed world view. You CANNOT discuss anything other than evolution. Every book, every movie, etc TELLS kids that the world is XBillion years old and that this animal came from that animal, etc etc etc.

Evolution is not a religion, it doesnt make you worship anything, it doesnt give you rules you must follow or you go to hell. Evolution has a bases in scientific information, which should be taught in school because of the process. When you start dealing in gods, beliefs and so on, that has no place in school, that is what church is for. You can fill up the whole day talking about all the different religions. You would have to talk about them all so the students dont get indocturnated in one religion. You cant compare religion to science.

Talk about control. If you can get the entire world believing that then gov'ts, judges etc have total control, science has total control. He who gains the most control has the control, "natural selection". People become disposable, anything goes "morally".

Science looks for truth and is based off the scientific method, which is always expanding due to our own expanding knowledge. I dont believe religion is the only way to have a moral society, in fact i believe it to cause more conflict and pain than any other ideology.

A Christian is not controlled, there are rules laid down but those are to prevent pain. We live by grace.
According to the defn, IF someone "chose" to follow a religion/faith they are not a freethinker. Bull.

If youre not controlled then why do you need to follow rules. Not able to gain morality without it?

[/quote:37kunxmz]

 

[Goomer]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

According to the defn, IF someone "chose" to follow a religion/faith they are not a freethinker. Bull.

I think that is correct, I think they are both contradictory.
A freethinker applies logic, reason, observation, and supportive evidence to a decision.
The only way to "believe", and be a freethinker, is to have your own warped definition of logic and reason.

 

[Ron Werner]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

Arent many facts supporting evolution? Did your church tell you that "fact"?

No, all I had to do was start reading about the theory. They start stating things as "fact", ie that it "happened" this way or that way or this animal is related to this animal etc etc, yet when you start getting into the process they start saying "IF this was present it would have happened this way" or variations there of.

Evolution is not a religion, it doesnt make you worship anything, it doesnt give you rules you must follow or you go to hell. Evolution has a bases in scientific information, which should be taught in school because of the process.

You mean it should be taught in a school even if it could be a lie?
It has its basis in scientific imagination.
It doesn't make you worship anything, except yourself.

Science looks for truth and is based off the scientific method, which is always expanding due to our own expanding knowledge. I dont believe religion is the only way to have a moral society, in fact i believe it to cause more conflict and pain than any other ideology.

Science also can have its own agenda, to prove what it wants to prove regardless of where the facts lead.

We'll never know if there is another way to have a moral society since many religions have contributed to our present morals, Christianity having a major influence. If anything, morals have been going down hill since Christianity has been removed from schools and court rooms etc.

If youre not controlled then why do you need to follow rules. Not able to gain morality without it?

We follow the rules by our choice, out of respect.
Gov't doesnt control us because we know who is really in control.
A "church" can't control us since they aren't in control either.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

Arent many facts supporting evolution? Did your church tell you that "fact"?

No, all I had to do was start reading about the theory. They start stating things as "fact", ie that it "happened" this way or that way or this animal is related to this animal etc etc, yet when you start getting into the process they start saying "IF this was present it would have happened this way" or variations there of.

It goes back to the rejection of information. Evolution at present is the best explaination of our origins. Is it 100% correct, I doubt it, it is a theory just like gravity. Able to be built upon and altered as we learn more about the world we live in. You are already taught what you believe to be fact, so its understandable that you reject everything else. Galileo sure got in a lot of shit from the church by saying the earth revolved around the sun...guess that was accidently left out of the bible.

[quote:2fr5g7g6] Evolution is not a religion, it doesnt make you worship anything, it doesnt give you rules you must follow or you go to hell. Evolution has a bases in scientific information, which should be taught in school because of the process.

You mean it should be taught in a school even if it could be a lie?
It has its basis in scientific imagination.
It doesn't make you worship anything, except yourself.

Its not a lie, its the best that the scientific method can do with the level of our knowledge...Theory... Again i would only expect you restraint against it because it conflict with your outdated ideology.

Science looks for truth and is based off the scientific method, which is always expanding due to our own expanding knowledge. I dont believe religion is the only way to have a moral society, in fact i believe it to cause more conflict and pain than any other ideology.

Science also can have its own agenda, to prove what it wants to prove regardless of where the facts lead.

That depends on the person behind the agenda, religion has a far greater agenda for mankind than science does.

We'll never know if there is another way to have a moral society since many religions have contributed to our present morals, Christianity having a major influence. If anything, morals have been going down hill since Christianity has been removed from schools and court rooms etc.

I will use myself as an example. I had zero religious ideology and yet I still have morals and ethics without the self help book called the bible. I contribute it to understanding cause and effect & empathy. I dont think people can live without the idea of god, some people need that comfort to get through life, to not feel so alone in the world.

That is quite a statment to say that since christianity has been in recession that it is the reason for the downward slide of morality. 75% of americans consider themself christians, so you have the foothold on the majority. I see christians in crime, prostitution and so on. So I dont think your statment has much behind it except as only your opinion.

If youre not controlled then why do you need to follow rules. Not able to gain morality without it?

We follow the rules by our choice, out of respect.
Gov't doesnt control us because we know who is really in control.
A "church" can't control us since they aren't in control either.

Its interesting that you dont see the shakles you must carry and the obedience you must have.

[/quote:2fr5g7g6]

 

[Ron Werner]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

It goes back to the rejection of information.

You bet it does. Church taught me about creation, school taught me about evolution. The more I learned about the science the more I thought any scientist worth his/her salt would have to be a fool to believe in the probability that we are here by chance. Far too many leaps of faith.

Its not a lie

And that's your opinion

That depends on the person behind the agenda, religion has a far greater agenda for mankind than science does.

Very true, religion does, and so does men who feel people are theirs to control because they feel they are in control.
Good thing I'm in a relationship, not a religion.

That is quite a statment to say that since christianity has been in recession that it is the reason for the downward slide of morality.

Just using science, observed behaviour coinciding with political actions.

Its interesting that you dont see the shakles you must carry and the obedience you must have.

Shackles? what am I limited by?
What rules would you have me break to prove to you I'm free? Adultery, drugs, drunkeness, fornication, steal, lie, cheat, kill, over charge? Tell me please. Which of these would you have me do? Which of these would be of any benefit to me?

You do not see the burden on your back.

 

[Ron Werner]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

Getting back to topic since its been hijacked:
Mikey, what prompted the thread?

 

[Brian R]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

Getting back to topic since its been hijacked:
Mikey, what prompted the thread?

Religious threads always get at least 4 pages of crap. shiteatinggrin



Very simple...nobody knows....everybody feels....I would go with that feeling...it's probably there for a reason.

Logic only goes so far when it's something unexplainable.

And until you're dead (Maybe not even then) we cannot comprehend....we can only pretend.
(no I didn't mean to rhyme. lol)

But I do know the only thing that goes on in the world that I am aware of that I cannot see or feel....but know is there.
Are my thoughts.

Good luck...you know who you are....Devils Advocate is just that name for a reason.

 

[Goomer]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

I think everyone understands that no one is going to change the mind of anyone else here. I appreciate lively debate, and respect all debaters, but we all know this debate can and will go on forever.

I'm outta here.

What's your favorite pre-spray?

 

[truckmount girl]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

maybe we should just move this whole thread to the Rubber Room where the religious threads belong.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Brian R]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

I've always thought this...as far as changing minds go.

When in the heat of the arguement...you won't change one's mind BUT

If they hear you and you're right...they will recognize it later and that's ok.

The problem with "debating" is people rarely listen to the arguement......they are too busy thinking of their reply to actually think about what the other is saying.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

People determine "who you are" by what you repeatedly DO, not what you say or profess.

If you feel compelled to talk about your beliefs to promote your business I think it shows you feel your beliefs are just for show. Time and again that has proven to be the case.

I understand Mike's beef, and I share a disgust for what happened. Whatever that person SAYS, we see what he did.

 

[Brian R]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

People determine "who you are" by what you repeatedly DO, not what you say or profess.

If you feel compelled to talk about your beliefs to promote your business I think it shows you feel your beliefs are just for show. Time and again that has proven to be the case.

I understand Mike's beef, and I share a disgust for what happened. Whatever that person SAYS, we see what he did.

And the truth shall set you free. Good point.

 

[Ron Werner]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

A friend and I discussed this a bit yesterday. Reminded me of some guy I really have no respect for because of his actions, where one day he was talking to a custy and said, "Maam, I'm a Christian. I wouldn't have taken your $50 from your dresser." Not sure how she took it, but knowing the guy, that didn't convince me.

If your religion or your faith isn't worth "living", not much substance to it.

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

It goes back to the rejection of information.

You bet it does. Church taught me about creation, school taught me about evolution. The more I learned about the science the more I thought any scientist worth his/her salt would have to be a fool to believe in the probability that we are here by chance. Far too many leaps of faith.


[quote:2gtdd4qe]Its not a lie

And that's your opinion

That depends on the person behind the agenda, religion has a far greater agenda for mankind than science does.

Very true, religion does, and so does men who feel people are theirs to control because they feel they are in control.
Good thing I'm in a relationship, not a religion.

That is quite a statment to say that since christianity has been in recession that it is the reason for the downward slide of morality.

Just using science, observed behaviour coinciding with political actions.

Its interesting that you dont see the shakles you must carry and the obedience you must have.

Shackles? what am I limited by?
What rules would you have me break to prove to you I'm free? Adultery, drugs, drunkeness, fornication, steal, lie, cheat, kill, over charge? Tell me please. Which of these would you have me do? Which of these would be of any benefit to me?

You do not see the burden on your back.[/quote:2gtdd4qe]


Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....

 

[Loren Egland]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

Interesting short article here: http://www.watchtower.org/e/200609a/article_01.htm entitled "Does Science Contradict the Genesis Account?"

 

[renegade_cowboy]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

Interesting short article here: http://www.watchtower.org/e/200609a/article_01.htm entitled "Does Science Contradict the Genesis Account?"

Very interesting...really makes me wanna become a Jehovah’s Witness...

 

[rhyde]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

years ago I gave a cleaner in the area (a husband and wife team) my rug clients referrals for WW carpet cleaning i knew they where religious but they seemed like nice people and did decent work. I was delivering rugs back to a customer, an older widow that lives alone who I referred to them and asked how they did on the carpet cleaning. She responded, they did a good job but she would never have them back in her house! turns out the bible beaters where cleaning the family room, living room at one end of the house and at some point one maybe both ? went to the bedrooms at the other end of the house and left religious literature on the bedroom pillows.


morals of this story....Theres a fine line between being religious and just plain creepy! A small token can cost your business big in repeat customer and industry referrals

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

Yep.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

turns out the bible beaters where cleaning the family room, living room at one end of the house and at some point one maybe both ? went to the bedrooms at the other end of the house and left religious literature on the bedroom pillows.

WOW!!! :shock:
really REALLY dumb
not just the unsolicited proselytizing , but going into other rooms they have no business being in in the first place

I'm might of given them a Bible study lesson over the literature
But I'd of raised HOLY HELL over going into a room they had no good reason to be in



..L.T.A.

 

[Jim Williams]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

years ago I gave a cleaner in the area (a husband and wife team) my rug clients referrals for WW carpet cleaning i knew they where religious but they seemed like nice people and did decent work. I was delivering rugs back to a customer, an older widow that lives alone who I referred to them and asked how they did on the carpet cleaning. She responded, they did a good job but she would never have them back in her house! turns out the bible beaters where cleaning the family room, living room at one end of the house and at some point one maybe both ? went to the bedrooms at the other end of the house and left religious literature on the bedroom pillows.


morals of this story....Theres a fine line between being religious and just plain creepy! A small token can cost your business big in repeat customer and industry referrals

It's ashamed so many people like that have given God a bad name. No wonder so many are against organized religeon. I live out my faith quietly without forcing anything on anybody. The bible says they will know we are christians by our love, not by how much literature we distribute. I truly believe that actions are so much louder than words. If christians spend there time forcefully imposing our faith on others instead of living it people are just going to be turned off.

When I think back to who the people were in my life who were the greatest christian examples, they were the ones who didn't go around preaching all the time, but they lived lives of integrity and love.

 

[Mikey P]

Re: Can you, will you, have you sperated business from relig

Good news, after I filed a complaint against the Allens, Twitter removed their MB impersonation page.