Encapsulation Questions

[Jim Pemberton]

I recently read an article in the November issue of Cleanfax that interested me, and mildly troubled me.

The author asked a question that I have often asked myself:

Do encap products and the dirt that the products supposedly encapsulate come out readily with vacuuming, if they come out at all?

He conducted some tests, and came to some conclusions that I'm not yet prepared to comment on directly, but I'd appreciate the feedback of anyone who read that article before I share my own.

Encapsulation has been "around" for a while now, and a lot of cleaners are making a lot of money, and surely making a lot of customers happy with the results. Of that there is no debate.

But what's actually happening on the carpet during and after the process is what I'd like to see a beginning of some open and informed discussion.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Do encap products and the dirt that the products supposedly encapsulate come out readily with vacuuming, if they come out at all?

I did not read the article but I will now. Thank you Jim.

I will say that not all Encap products are equal. At the high end we have found them to be very comparable but we've also used some that did not do what they were sold to do.

There are always those that jump on the bandwagon trying to take advantage of a products popularity.

 

[ruff]

We would also like to know if the left over polymer can become airborne, and if so health concerns regarding exposure.

 

[Scott S.]

hmm. time to buy myself a micro camera or something i can take a microscopic picture with to see..

i also have a couple carpeted areas i am going to test next, ones that i can encap and then vacuum a few days later and see what comes out after encapsulation, with no traffic happening on them to add soil to the area, so a controlled test, then vacuum and check out what all i get in the bag, i'm interested to see if there are any encapsulation crystals like the manufacturer says.

 

[Desk Jockey]

We would also like to know if the left over polymer can become airborne, and if so health concerns regarding exposure.

Once the water evaporates 2-4 oz per gallon spread over 500-600 sq/ft is not much encap solution left.

 

[Nate The Great]

Once the water evaporates 2-4 oz per gallon spread over 500-600 sq/ft is not much encap solution left.

Still enough to cause IAQ problems..........

@dealtimeman on Nate's computer.....

 

[Scott S.]

just remember its the little things that kill you, viruses, colds, phenomena, bet all them weighed is less than 1 oz when they kill you. hah

 

[Desk Jockey]

Yes little things over time. Watch the precondition vapors & solvent exposure. There are few "safe solvents", just those that haven't damaged enough people to make the hit list yet.

 

[Mikey P]

Is it the pixie portion of the juice or the space age agitation (and possible follow up absorption that us Cleaners with a Conscience provide) that does the trick?

 

[encapman]

My response...

 

[dealtimeman]

Looks like marketing to me, not real testing

 

[Ray Burnfield]

I recently read an article in the November issue of Cleanfax that interested me, and mildly troubled me.

The author asked a question that I have often asked myself:

Do encap products and the dirt that the products supposedly encapsulate come out readily with vacuuming, if they come out at all?

He conducted some tests, and came to some conclusions that I'm not yet prepared to comment on directly, but I'd appreciate the feedback of anyone who read that article before I share my own.

Encapsulation has been "around" for a while now, and a lot of cleaners are making a lot of money, and surely making a lot of customers happy with the results. Of that there is no debate.

But what's actually happening on the carpet during and after the process is what I'd like to see a beginning of some open and informed discussion.

I could not find my November edition but they did have an article in September. The September article was about testing the different products in the market.
They nixed the petri dish test altogether. They used carpet samples and some of the products tested didn't do so well.
No names were mentioned in the article.
I'm looking forward to reading the follow up in the November edition

 

[Mikey P]

Darn good chance Jim and I will be doing some debunking in Atlanta..

 

[dgardner]

Bunking - sharing a hotel room to save expenses
Debunking - get your own darn room, you snore!

 

[Desk Jockey]

"Not that there's anything wrong with it"

 

[Desk Jockey]

Looks like marketing to me, not real testing

MR Lookharder you would not be a one trick pony would ya?

 

[dealtimeman]

No offense

 

[Desk Jockey]

ig:

 

[hogjowl]

 

[Desk Jockey]

Dinner?

 

[Ray Burnfield]

View attachment 8307 View attachment 8308

Breakfast?

 

[hogjowl]

 

[hogjowl]

That last one was after I busted them up a bit.

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Looks like you tested them without diluting per directions.

 

[hogjowl]

I've never been good at towing the party line.

 

[Desk Jockey]

May I request that I not be seated near you in Hotlanta?

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Telephones?
We had a party line growing up until about 1961

 

[Goomer]

Do encap products and the dirt that the products supposedly encapsulate come out readily with vacuuming, if they come out at all?

Although I consider the process of encapsulation to be somewhat valid in theory, if there is any part of the process that warrants scrutiny, I think it is more in regards to the vacuuming process, than in the performance of the polymers.

Does the general, common term of "vacuuming", accurately portray the requirements necessary to be effective when post-encapsulation vacuuming?

They should be considered 2 different animals.

Assuming the polymers perform anywhere close to as advertised, anything less than methodically Wernerizing it using a efficient, well maintained vacuum matched to the carpet pile/style should be considered a poor attempt at maximizing the amount of material recovered.

I think it's to the product manufacturers benefit and convenience to over-simplify what is required in reality during post-encapsulation vacuuming to really be effective if even possible, and to portray "general" vacuuming as being adequate, when what is most likely required involves so much more.

Even under ideal vacuuming, the amounts capable of being recovered are still an unknown, as examples of recovered encapsulated material in vac canisters continues to be quite elusive, and remains nothing but folk-lore as far as I'm concerned.

Petri dish tests don't prove a thing if not at RTU dilutions, which I have yet to see.

Wouldn't it be interesting if the polymers contained just enough optical brighteners to fluoresce under black light?

 

[dealtimeman]

Once the water evaporates 2-4 oz per gallon spread over 500-600 sq/ft is not much encap solution left.

what i see here is a guy just trying to defend his method of raking in the dough by fibbing to his customer by feeding them mediocre lies while he just soaks up all of the fame and glamour of being a rich encapsulating carpet filth spreader maker evener.

but i could be wrong, maybe!!!

and i said maybe!!!!

 

[Nate The Great]

what i see here is a guy just trying to defend his method of raking in the dough by fibbing to his customer by feeding them mediocre lies while he just soaks up all of the fame and glamour of being a rich encapsulating carpet filth spreader maker evener.

but i could be wrong, maybe!!!

and i said maybe!!!!

Tell us how you really feel.....