enlighten me.....

[Jim Martin]

first time I say your name and that makes me determined..???... KMA!

so even though you can still make money you turn it away...but yet..anyone who don't try to up sell protector is leaving money on the table....??????????

Selling protector & sticking to your prices is two different things. IMO It isn't fair to the clients that pay the regular price.





---
I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?kscebp
Sent from my iPhone

Leaving money on the table....is leaving money on the table...no matter what the circumstances may be...

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Jim of course you are right on this subject.

Billy does three to five jobs per week, his wife and son draw no salary except what the company brings in, he only has 1000 hours on his 140k dollar machine for five years, and likely has only grossed 300k over the past five years. Pretty shitty if you ask me. He has clearly drank the kook aid.

You asked about sq ft versus room. I think you should do free estimates and use a combination of the two. Just never advertise a price. Some jobs are harder than others and pricing by the room can bite you in the ass unless you are there to do an estimate. And you don't have to drive all over town. You can give the customer an estimated price range.

And for the love of god don't offer to do three and a hall with no chance at all to upsell a better job for 79 dollars.

Just keep doing what you are doing if you are making money.

You have a good thing going and a company that would be easy to sell which is better than most.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

Is it just my computer but what is up with the pop up ads coming from the text I typed?

Making money and dollars each have a link in them with pop ups.

 

[Ken Snow]

Joe- pretty much for most all your points I would say that is exactly why we believe room pricing is better. Different strokes for different folks- you say Potayto and I say Potaato and we can both be right.

To whoever it was who asked, yes I am an owner (there are 4 equal partners) and I am the President of our Cleaning business including on location, rug care services and our fire & flood division. My partners operate our retail business.

 

[Mikey P]

[quote="Mikey P":3det01dp]I made 72k the last year I was at coit.


I worked 6 days a week usually and worked all day



the commission scale was all over the place b ut I recall making 43% if they asked for me personally.


you tell me how many I did Ken, most likely you're right and I did 1200 or so

So let me get this straight,the average smo working at Coit gets 18% and 22% for upsales but you get 43%?Come on man!


Hey Ken,are you the owner of Hagopian?[/quote:3det01dp]


Excuse me, I had to call Demein to get it right, 43% was given on "Blinds" which were new customers I brought to the table.

Repeats who asked for me paid a bit over 30%.... I forget exactly, its been too long

 

[Ken Snow]

Makes sense. oh yes, blinds- the good old days.

 

[mcatt]

I agree with Mike,

A turn key business like Mike describes would be a very good deal at that price.
What other business can you buy that will pay for itself in one year?

Exactly! 4 years has nothing to do with it. Just good business sense and forward thinking and planning.

 

[ruff]

so you guys that are high end cleaners like Billy says he is....when you get a call and you know that you can make money if you just dropped you price a bit...do you take it or hold your ground.......??????

http://tapatalk.com/map.php?kscebp[/url]
Sent from my iPhone

Leaving money on the table....is leaving money on the table...no matter what the circumstances may be...[/quote:2ewl6m5h]

You're absolutely wrong Jim.
What you call "Leaving money on the table" by lowering the price to the tougher negotiator, tells the client who paid full price, that they were just taken advantage of.

It would be highly unfair.

Unless of course you happen to run a sudden "sale," which if its like some big franchise here, is actually their everyday real price. I can tell you that through my years in business, I got many of their disgruntled client who felt that they were taken advantage of. I love it.

I guess it's a dog eat dog world out there, however, if I was that client who paid more, I'd be furious.
Like Billy, I never negotiate my price. I lose quite a few and that's fine with me. (I stay quite busy as it is.) And some come back later and end up referring friends. However, all my clients know that what they paid is what anybody (and their sister) else pays. Bar none.

Selling protector is a completely different issue, and people here have different opinions about how well they work.
However, the client does get something of value when they buy Protector.

 

[Jim Martin]

Agree...but I am not saying that you negotiate with the client....what I am saying is that if you run across a job and you know you can make money on it...Why in the world would you not take it...

Making money is the objective.....

 

[Mardie]

Agree...but I am not saying that you negotiate with the client....what I am saying is that if you run across a job and you know you can make money on it...Why in the world would you not take it...

Making money is the objective.....

The way i see it is that once you start negotiating or lowering the price after giving a price,YOU LOOSE ALL TRUST AND CREDIBILITY.

 

[ruff]

Here is an example of our pricing to help anyone who is delusional like Joe about it. My condo is about 2000 sq ft in total on the upper 2 floors. The bathrooms, large kitchen & foyer/hall being wood. The cost to clean the remaining carpet would be $246.49 and if Scotchgard is applied which I do when I clean it, the total would be $369.35. I live about 13 minutes from the office and my portal to portal time was about 2 hours and 5 minutes so call it an hour and 40ish from time I pulled into my driveway till the time I pulled out. This was without an assistant and my first cleaning of any carpet in a number of months so I am not in cleaning shape. When I had one of my crews do it they were done in just barely over an hour. Looked great, great production.

Ken,
I do not have an argument with your business decisions, ethics and or logic. Hagopian is a well established and reputable business and I find you to be honorable and trustworthy.

I do with the time it takes you and or your crews to do the work in conjunctions with the claim for top notch cleaning results.

Let me qualify: Without knowing your clientele or seeing any of your cleaning results, based solely on your internet posts: I think that you offer great price for decent quality cleaning, which gives the client a good return for their money.

However, as someone who's been cleaning for many years: Your numbers and quality claims do not add up.
Even if we take the formula of 65%, your condo will have at least 1300 square foot. Doing that + ScotchGuarding + good quality in 1 hour and 40 minutes is unrealistic. And you are the "slow one."
As is your claim from a while ago, that you cleaned your ex wife's 16 (or was it 14?) foot sectional in 40 minutes and did a great job.
If you did that in 40 minutes- clean is not exactly what I would call it. And I clean a lot of sofas.

This is not a bash Ken response and I hope you do not take it as such.
It is just that in many of your posts, you present it as the norm.

It ain't.

 

[Mikey P]

Makes sense. oh yes, blinds- the good old days.

I don't mean blinds as in "mini", Blinds was the term Coit used for a customer that we/I personally found

 

[Jim Martin]

Agree...but I am not saying that you negotiate with the client....what I am saying is that if you run across a job and you know you can make money on it...Why in the world would you not take it...

Making money is the objective.....

The way i see it is that once you start negotiating or lowering the price after giving a price,YOU LOOSE ALL TRUST AND CREDIBILITY.

Again...I agree but that's not what I am asking .......

 

[joe harper]

Jim...

If you walk into a $400.00 "empty"....And they offer to pay $300.00...?

Then you decide...WTH...."I am already here.... so" OK...!

Don't tell me the "wand" doesn't move a little ...FASTER.... eat shit!

 

[ruff]

Agree...but I am not saying that you negotiate with the client....what I am saying is that if you run across a job and you know you can make money on it...Why in the world would you not take it...

Making money is the objective.....

If that is the case- You should.

After all making money is the objective and cleaning carpet, is definitely not our hobby.

Cause, regardless of the rumors, the moment I win the lottery, I ain't cleaning carpets no more. oh my...

 

[Jim Martin]

If I walk up and I have already gave my price and they try to talk me down....my wand is not even going to come out of the truck......


But if I get a call and I know that I can make money off of it...even if it is not a " high end cleaning " I would be a fool not to take it.....

 

[Jim Martin]

[quote="Jim Martin"0ve6zoa]Agree...but I am not saying that you negotiate with the client....what I am saying is that if you run across a job and you know you can make money on it...Why in the world would you not take it...

Making money is the objective.....

If that is the case- You should.

After all making money is the objective and cleaning carpet, is definitely not our hobby.

Cause, regardless of the rumors, the moment I win the lottery, I ain't cleaning carpets no more. oh my...[/quote0ve6zoa]

If you win....remember me....

 

[Mardie]

If I walk up and I have already gave my price and they try to talk me down....my wand is not even going to come out of the truck......


But if I get a call and I know that I can make money off of it...even if it is not a " high end cleaning " I would be a fool not to take it.....

X2

 

[Able 1]

[quote="Ken Snow":1kpe98fa]

Here is an example of our pricing to help anyone who is delusional like Joe about it. My condo is about 2000 sq ft in total on the upper 2 floors. The bathrooms, large kitchen & foyer/hall being wood. The cost to clean the remaining carpet would be $246.49 and if Scotchgard is applied which I do when I clean it, the total would be $369.35. I live about 13 minutes from the office and my portal to portal time was about 2 hours and 5 minutes so call it an hour and 40ish from time I pulled into my driveway till the time I pulled out. This was without an assistant and my first cleaning of any carpet in a number of months so I am not in cleaning shape. When I had one of my crews do it they were done in just barely over an hour. Looked great, great production.

Ken,
I do not have an argument with your business decisions, ethics and or logic. Hagopian is a well established and reputable business and I find you to be honorable and trustworthy.

I do with the time it takes you and or your crews to do the work in conjunctions with the claim for top notch cleaning results.

Let me qualify: Without knowing your clientele or seeing any of your cleaning results, based solely on your internet posts: I think that you offer great price for decent quality cleaning, which gives the client a good return for their money.

However, as someone who's been cleaning for many years: Your numbers and quality claims do not add up.
Even if we take the formula of 65%, your condo will have at least 1300 square foot. Doing that + ScotchGuarding + good quality in 1 hour and 40 minutes is unrealistic. And you are the "slow one."
As is your claim from a while ago, that you cleaned your ex wife's 16 (or was it 14?) foot sectional in 40 minutes and did a great job.
If you did that in 40 minutes- clean is not exactly what I would call it. And I clean a lot of sofas.

This is not a bash Ken response and I hope you do not take it as such.
It is just that in many of your posts, you present it as the norm.

It ain't.[/quote:1kpe98fa]

You have a CDS and an Apex and you can't duel upholstery tool a 14' sofa in 40mins with either TM? Do you have a helper, or a guy you could send on his own that works with you? Do you work by yourself? I find it funny all the guys that work by themselves and say "if you clean it THAT fast you are a hack", I on the other hand I think if you do it that slow by yourowndanmself you are a cheap retard!

 

[bob vawter]

Once you give away something for free....
you've pretty much established it's worth............

 

[floorguy]

If I walk up and I have already gave my price and they try to talk me down....my wand is not even going to come out of the truck......


But if I get a call and I know that I can make money off of it...even if it is not a " high end cleaning " I would be a fool not to take it.....

X2

x3....

with a big giant DUH......

which is why room pricing for phone stuff is easier and better....no one guessing....bigger areas, you shoot big add in an "extra" room....so if they say 6 rooms at $25 = $150, but arent sure on 2 of them being bigger...tell them $200....you get there, they are BOTH bigger..then no suprizes...you get there and 1 is boarderline, you can choose....BUT if you drop that room and go $175...they will remember....

over estimate phone calls, with room pricing....

 

[floorguy]

Jim of course you are right on this subject.

Billy does three to five jobs per week, his wife and son draw no salary except what the company brings in, he only has 1000 hours on his 140k dollar machine for five years, and likely has only grossed 300k over the past five years. Pretty shitty if you ask me. He has clearly drank the kook aid.

You asked about sq ft versus room. I think you should do free estimates and use a combination of the two. Just never advertise a price. Some jobs are harder than others and pricing by the room can bite you in the ass unless you are there to do an estimate. And you don't have to drive all over town. You can give the customer an estimated price range.

And for the love of god don't offer to do three and a hall with no chance at all to upsell a better job for 79 dollars.

Just keep doing what you are doing if you are making money.

You have a good thing going and a company that would be easy to sell which is better than most.

OMG daniel... no won ton soup for you! no won ton soup for you! no won ton soup for you! no won ton soup for you! no won ton soup for you!

now your gonna make me go dual screen so i can find his quote...BECAUSE AGAIN YOU SPOUTED OFF!!!!!

from the per room, per SQ thread

Yes I said we have had positive growth & yes I said we have always put family time ahead of work. Tonight after work we went to the Marina to take our boat to our favorite on water Restaurant for some family time including taking our dog with us since she likes the boat.

We don't have how many days we work every week set in stone but we prefer 3 -4 days max with no nights or weekends. We can do 1 - 4 jobs in a day max (1 - 2 normal) but as I have said & showed with invoices in the past our average jobs are higher. Today we actually worked on our job half of the day & made over $1500.00 cleaning & protecting/sealing Tile, a sofa, 2 full upholstered arm chairs & 2 seat/back only chairs. Client paid with Debit Card full amount before we even started cleaning. We also made a new friend today with this family.


Does it really matter how many hours he has on the machine???

Does it matter if he works 2 days a week with 4 jobs, or 6 days with 24??

NOOOOOO

is he making his payments?? looks like it

does he have off time??? looks like it...almost everyday on a boat no less...

and it appears everyone is missing Jims reasoning for the post.....JUST CAUSE.....if you dont throw it out there, and see whats going on...and think and ponder about it....then you are a dumb ass....

SO stop and think (or read) before you post.........


oh and for the record....you have a virus/program on your computer.....if i remember right...go into your add/remove programs area...sort it by date..newest to oldest....it should be in there....probably just the last week or so....

 

[Billy]

Jim of course you are right on this subject.

Billy does three to five jobs per week, his wife and son draw no salary except what the company brings in, he only has 1000 hours on his 140k dollar machine for five years, and likely has only grossed 300k over the past five years. Pretty shitty if you ask me. He has clearly drank the kook aid.

WOW you know so much about my business, NOT

Look at your own math & I should be at poverty level since there are many other expenses to running my Household & Business. The BigBearTruck was PAID For in less than 5yrs so that takes a large chunk of your likely scenario. Not that it is any of your business but your estimate for my income is way off. Oh & my son doesn't work for free & never has.

Your post reminds me of before we purchased the BBT how some said we couldn't afford one when I was researching & asking lots of questions. I had already ordered it when some were saying this but kept my mouth shut & just took the criticism.

I haven't been in business for as many years as I have without making a few good decisions along the way.

OMG daniel... no won ton soup for you! no won ton soup for you! no won ton soup for you! no won ton soup for you! no won ton soup for you!

now your gonna make me go dual screen so i can find his quote...BECAUSE AGAIN YOU SPOUTED OFF!!!!!

from the per room, per SQ thread

Yes I said we have had positive growth & yes I said we have always put family time ahead of work. Tonight after work we went to the Marina to take our boat to our favorite on water Restaurant for some family time including taking our dog with us since she likes the boat.

We don't have how many days we work every week set in stone but we prefer 3 -4 days max with no nights or weekends. We can do 1 - 4 jobs in a day max (1 - 2 normal) but as I have said & showed with invoices in the past our average jobs are higher. Today we actually worked on our job half of the day & made over $1500.00 cleaning & protecting/sealing Tile, a sofa, 2 full upholstered arm chairs & 2 seat/back only chairs. Client paid with Debit Card full amount before we even started cleaning. We also made a new friend today with this family.


Does it really matter how many hours he has on the machine???

Does it matter if he works 2 days a week with 4 jobs, or 6 days with 24??

NOOOOOO

is he making his payments?? looks like it - BigBearTruck is Paid For so no payments

does he have off time??? looks like it...almost everyday on a boat no less... - We do love our Boat but I shouldn't be able to afford it based on Daniels Assumptions about my income eat shit! so I must not really have one which means I just say we go out on the boat

and it appears everyone is missing Jims reasoning for the post.....JUST CAUSE.....if you dont throw it out there, and see whats going on...and think and ponder about it....then you are a dumb ass.... - Jim started a good post I just stayed out of it due to what is happening now

SO stop and think (or read) before you post.........


oh and for the record....you have a virus/program on your computer.....if i remember right...go into your add/remove programs area...sort it by date..newest to oldest....it should be in there....probably just the last week or so....

Well Said Doug......

 

[Bob Savage]

Like someone else here said earlier today or yesterday, what anyone believes, says or does here has little to no impact on me unless I can learn or help from it.

Well said!

 

[Ken Snow]

Ofer- I on the other hand find it hard to believe that anyone would take longer to do an excellent job, again potayto/potaato.

My carpet never has shoes on it, doesn't get spills and crumbs and soils and is vacuumed thoroughly by me every other week and housekeepers the opposite week. I am so anally clean my dishes could be used after I am done precleaning them before they go in the dishwasher. The cleaning was done the day after my housekeepers came and yes I can easily clean & protect 1300-1400 feet of carpet in an hour and 40 and frankly that is way too slow in my opinion.

My ex is the same way I am and her black, tone on tone 16 ft (approx) 3 piece sectional just needed a "once over" plus some special attn to where her cousin had spilled some coffee (that she had cleaned up right away also). To me 40 minutes was just about right, not slow or fast. 3 minutes of this time was reapplying the Protasil Fabric Protector.

If my or her things were heavily soiled it could easily have added 30-100% more time.

Our price to clean and protect the sectional would have been $224.99 so even at 2 hours if soiled it would be decent revenue generated. I can't remember if I cleaned and Scotchgarded her carpet that time but that would have been another $293.99 and added another hour to an hour and a half to the job if I did it solo- both would have taken 1 of my 2 man crews less time as they would have worked independently and gotten the whole job done in 1-1.5 hours. Again, this is a cake job as she is as anally clean as me. Double, or 2.5 the time for very heavy soil potentially.

Ken

 

[Mikey P]

Ken..

Please discribe the living conditions of your average customer for me.

 

[Ken Snow]

We are 95% Midwest suburban, middle, upper middle & a lot of upper class (tough to define that one). They would typically be clean with 1-2 person family income and 1.5 kids and perhaps a dog and/or cat. Generally clean and proud of their belongings. They will call us as needed, or as we remind them and not wait for furnishings to get heavily soiled.

 

[FB7777]

A few years back, I did a job for a lady that previously used Hagopians for years when she lived in Michigan

First she looked locally for Hagopians as she was certain they were a national company

She insisted on a company that had 2 man crews and made sure we used fabric protection. Very neat , orderly home , the woman was in education

I've been back to clean the house again

Only a one person representation but definately the type of customer you want to fill your schedule with


Billy,

More power to you brother, family and free time definately rule . And if you can afford the time it's time we'll spent.

A 5 year old truck mount with 1000 hours will fetch a nice re-sale when you are ready to unload it

I do wonder how you do the volume of work you claim with a TM that averages 4 running hours a week

You must make $1000 per machine hour

 

[Mikey P]

So you don't clean for Bob's former demographic?

 

[Ken Snow]

That is the part of the 5% that is urban (Detroit & Pontiac). They are the smaller # of rooms, non-add on buying, lower ticket avg customers that we still do. Many dropped off when we raised our prices slightly or sadly just can't afford cleaning cause that is the high unemployed demo.

Our advertising and marketing has always been directed at suburban homeowners. Never have I bought an urban radio, tv, or print media.