Experience Manufacturers Need More Product Testing . . .

[Larry Cobb]

After three days in the Nevada sun . . .

testing every large carpet wand and rotary extractor at the show . . .

I was disappointed at the performance of about half of them.

On Wednesday, we started with TM wands 14" to 16" on some very dirty medium-grade plush-pile nylon.

First out of the box was Westpack's 14" new Titanium Wand.

It needed more work, as it streaked the carpet badly.

Next, I tried the PMF 15" Titanium, but it also streaked the carpet.

On to the the veteran PC Titanium, but it caused obvious streaking as well.

The Butler 14" was also tested, but also showed streaks.

Finally, we tried the brand new 15" Zipper Wand which cleaned well & did not streak . . .
but did have quite a bit of water over-spraying on the left & right.

Then it was on to the rotaries . . .

First up was the Interlink "CX-15 Whirlwind" . . . which had a "turbo two-jet rotating spinner head" with a trailing Teflon glide to extract the water. The positive points were that it cleaned well and left the carpet with minimum moisture. The negative was the the clean circle it created at the start AND the end of the cleaning stroke. They were very obvious, & difficult to remove.
View attachment 5461 . Great Photo courtesy Jim Martin

Next, I tried the 15" RotaVac XL . . .

It cleaned the carpet well, and did not leave any streaks.

Also, as demoed by a young lady, was able to clean right up to the edge of the carpet.

The Hoss was up next and although it used the stock jets, cleaned well, and was smooth in operation.

RX-20 also did a good job of cleaning, but to me did not operate as smoothly as the rotaries above.

After seeing some of the poor performance . . .

I have to agree with Mikey . . .

more testing needs to be done for final products that we tested at the outdoor cleaning challenge .

When I went to the CRI testing seminar, they talked extensively about the new softer-hand carpets . . .

the denier per filament has dropped down to ~4 DPF . . .

This carpet is prone to streak more prominently than most of the carpet you are cleaning today.

The CRI also stated that a "Glide" is REQUIRED to operate a wide wand successfully on this new fine filament carpet.

Larry

P.S. Mikey did a very good job putting all pieces in place for the outdoor testing.

 

[Mikey P]

Larry I think you are overlooking that none of the carpet pieces we had for demo (not true testing) were vacuumed beforehand, they were not pre-sprayed sufficiently in most cases (the sun/heat was drying it up almost instantly) and none were pre-scrubbed with a 175 or other tool.

No wand (not even your precious Bentley) will perform in those conditions, ESPECIALLY on those horrible carpets.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Mikey;

I made sure that the carpet I tested WAS presprayed . . .

so the test was under similar conditions.

The Zipper had a very even spray pattern, and did not streak
(although it did overspray)

The carpet was indeed, very difficult.

Still, a really good jet pattern should not streak, ideally.

Larry

 

[Goldenboy]

Thanks Larry for your HONEST reviews. Need more guys like you in the industry.


Golden Boy

 

[Mikey P]

Pre spray alone will not enable ANY (normal) wand to clean carpet like those samples.


You know that, I know that, hell everybody there knew that....So whats your point?





Check this out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATBsFZGdDD0&list=UUGl4oOuCGURMINuh5ot3sxw

 

[FB7777]

Waldope's sole purpose is to yap and piss all over threads like a 3rd generation inbred poodle

 

[Larry Cobb]

Cleaning of the new fine Denier per filament carpet . . .

is WHY it is important to the CRI :

View attachment 5462

Larry

 

[Mikey P]

I can't imagine any of the rotary extractors being allowed than.



A real shame they were no mytee tools to play with at the show, don't you agree Larry?

 

[dgardner]

Mike, I'm totally confused. You said the blank line was a gallon, and that the 360i was about a gallon and a half - but the 360i line looks to me to be about half of the unmarked line. What am I missing?

 

[Larry Cobb]

I can't imagine any of the rotary extractors being allowed than.

A real shame they were no mytee tools to play with at the show, don't you agree Larry?

I don't think it is excessive agitation that the mfg's are worried about. It is streaking.

I tried to get Mytee to bring over a 14" Bentley, but John refused.

I would have liked to see it compared, also.

Larry

 

[Mikey P]

Mike, I'm totally confused. You said the blank line was a gallon, and that the 360i was about a gallon and a half - but the 360i line looks to me to be about half of the unmarked line. What am I missing?

http://mikeysboard.com/forum/showth...ost-water-in-stock-form&p=4310787#post4310787

 

[SamIam]

Some wands weren't set up properly I dropped the 15 inch ti wand trying for more of a shear and it did streak a lot.

It appeared the jets were hitting 1 inch behind the vac slot.

Sadly some machines were running fresh water rinses and these carpets were filthy and I don't now what they pre sprayed with but it wasn't powermax.

It was funny the sales people were like feel how dry it is, Its fricken a 100 degrees outside its gonna be dry. You could tell the new tool from Interlink on the Hydramaster machine was using a strong rinse and performed better. The el diablo had chemical in its jug but was metering at 0.

If I were selling a 100k machine I wouldn't rely on a fresh water rinse and pre spray that dry's in 5 seconds. I would use a premium powder and make sure it pops, But then again some guys were like it sticky, its soft.

These carpet were seriously grungy.

The 15 inch ti wand almost broke my wrists on the aerotech but left the carpet almost dry.

I didn't see Larry's truck mount there but John was there with his 4 wand machine.

Sapphire had 45 truckmounts at the show well it seemed like that many. These carpet were grungy I said that right?

Like pack out soil dirty so ya they streaked a lot I don't think in most cases it was the wands fault.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[tmdry]

45 truckmounts that's hilarious, but I know what you mean they're show truck usually carries so many different models it sure feels like a ton of options.

Wouldn't it be so much simpler to just do a basic/entry level, medium tm, and high cfm/pump tm, and call it a day?

 

[Cleantechsk]

Bill that makes too much sense

stop trying to simplify it

that's not what our industry is about

 

[SamIam]

Sapphire had all their demo trucks there so it looked like 10 units 2 870's 2 570's ect ect.

I think prochem had a Legend inside and Apex, and a running 650 hp outside with the E Idle.


....

 

[SamIam]

The Prochem party near the pool was crazy they put on a spread for every who was at the show tacos, roast beef sandwich 1 free drink. I was impressed. No wonder a 650 cost 30k.


....

 

[Mikey P]

I agree, the party was the best ever as it was outside in great weather, you could get away from the band and not have to scream to converse and food was everywhere.



No way that cost less than 20k to put on.


Thanks Prochem!

 

[Jim Martin]

Great...great time....

 

[Ron K]

I think the gist of this thread is

You're going to THEE show to show off your stuff that you plan to sell. All wand were on the same carpet. They should have been set up properly and not streaked.
Mike if you got any of these to try out on your dime you would have said the same thing.
Manufacturers should figure out, we, the non broke dicks, know whats going on and are kind of tired being test dummies for this industry.
Sorry I wasn't there but it seems it may not have been as informative as hoped although better then the past
but Mikey Fest is still the benchmark.

 

[Mikey P]

if the carpet had been properly prepped, vacuumed, sprayed and scrubbed most of those wands would not have streaked.


but ..

most of those carpet should not have been cleaned by wands in the 1st place.






just another example of why all of you should have an RE on board.

 

[SamIam]

I did say grungy right!


....

 

[hogjowl]

I beg your pardon Ron, but some of us "broke dicks" know what's going on too.

 

[Jim Martin]

First up was the Interlink

"CX-15 Whirlwind" . . . which had a "turbo two-jet rotating spinner head" with a trailing Teflon glide

to extract the water. The positive points were that it cleaned well and left the carpet with minimum moisture. The negative was the the clean circle it created at the start AND the end of the cleaning stroke. They were very obvious, & difficult to remove.

for out of the box and it opening debut.....it was pretty impressive....

I don't think that the cleaning circle will be that much of a problem......100's of guys that have never touched the thing where making day and night differences with one pass on carpet that should of been thrown away and incinerated just to be sure that what was down in them would never become a health issue...which was pretty good for carpet that.... ( as Mike said )...should of never had a wand put on them in the first place......I think that people that get one will learn that you just don't pull the trigger until you are moving and let off before you stop and from there all the little tricks to make it do what they want.....not to mention ..it had the commercial jets on it not the residential one....which were bigger and angled straight down.....

It was pretty impressed with how dry the carpet was right after it passed over it........

 

[Larry Cobb]

Jim;

I too, was impressed with the cleaning, and extraction ability of the CX-15 rotary . . .

As you well know, a jet change can improve the actual performance of many rotary extractors . . .

I am going to get one to try out some ideas on . . .

At $1399 and only 20# of weight , it has lots of value to be utilized with some modifications.

A RV360i weighs almost twice as much.

Larry

 

[dgardner]

you just don't pull the trigger until you are moving and let off before you stop

Exactly what I thought after seeing the picture - a non-issue to me - just a matter of technique.

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

A trade show isn't the place to be "testing" anything and there's no freeking real world conditions there. If I here about another rug that's been trampled on, drug through parking lot, spit on, poured coke on it I'll scream. Don't want to hear or see fresh coffee spots, mustard spots or red wine. The real battle is sitting in homes with month/years of chemical neglect. It's in restaurants that haven't been cleaned in 2+ years. Not to mention it's got structure built around it that we fight corner by corner, hallway by hallway.

Larry wants more testing from manufacturers. Try using these crappy toys day in and day out; never mind how hard it is to sell it and deal with the complaints we point out later. The manufacturers deserve everything they get whether good or bad. They don't clean day in and day out with their toys and their noise. And you distributors, are you frustrated? Well get off your ass and build and "test" the crap yourself. Nothing worse then a crack dealer complaining he ain't got no good product.

 

[Jim Martin]

although in some cases I can agree......manufactures can only go so far and from that point you have to rely on your feed back from the real world.......there is not one out there that can set up every variable that we run into in the life of a carpet cleaner......

Look at powermax......excellent product...IMO...there was nothing that could touch it.....Larry just could not keep his hands off it....how much real world testing did he do....It was a huge mistake as far as me and a bunch of others were concerned once it hit all our variables that we put it threw...it was nothing but a huge disappointment for us...but...it was a improvement to some and a step forward for others....was it checked before it got into the real world......?....probably....but like everything else out there.....he probably only did the best he could with the situations he had to work with....because weather it be a tool....pre spray..or a machine....there is not a single one of us that do everything the same ...and everything out there is going to work different..and even Larry can only do so much..............

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

yep, what Jim said..... Tnx Jim

 

[hogjowl]

Exactly what I thought after seeing the picture - a non-issue to me - just a matter of technique.

Hmmm ... I wasn't there, so there is obviously something I am missing, but from the picture, my first thought was the operator moved the tool TOO SOON. It appears the jets weren't allowed to turn completely, thus clean that starting spot, before the tool was moved.

??????

 

[Ron K]

I beg your pardon Ron, but some of us "broke dicks" know what's going on too.

You may not be a Broken One then.