Flex Ice VS AllFiber Rinse

[Carpet Renovations]

I have been using Flex w/ Citrus Powder and getting GREAT results!
I usually run Prochem's AllFiber Rinse but just recently ran into this video on Flex Ice and the product sounds like something worth looking into.
Anyone use it? What are your thoughts compared with the results of AllFiber Rinse?

 

[Mikey P]

I not only use it.

I invented it along with my chemistry associate James Ladwig ESQ.



Great product.

 

[rjwood]

I've never used the Prochem product but I have used other rinsing agents. I've been using the Flex Ice because of the claims made about it. I like the fact that it doesn't gunk up (why do other rinses do that, btw?). Other than that, how does one tell how good a rinse actually is besides testing the carpet for ph?

 

[Carpet Renovations]

I've heard mixed reviews about the scent, some complaints from customers,, etc... I wonder if putting in a deodorizer when mixing it up would resolve that problem? I am definitely planning on trying it only reservation is what it smells like, residential customers can be pretty particular about stuff like that.

 

[rjwood]

The Ice? It's unscented.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I have been using Flex w/ Citrus Powder and getting GREAT results!
I usually run Prochem's AllFiber Rinse but just recently ran into this video on Flex Ice and the product sounds like something worth looking into.
Anyone use it? What are your thoughts compared with the results of AllFiber Rinse?

One doesn't directly replace the other Paul:

Flex Ice is a cleaning agent that is on the acid side of the pH scale (4.5-5). A product like this is a good overall upholstery cleaner that is less likely to cause color fading, browning, and bleeding than would an alkaline cleaner, such as a typical carpet cleaning agent (BUT I wouldn't assume it will prevent browning on raw cotton or bleeding on natural fiber jacquards). If you like to bring down the pH of your traffic lane prespray (I wouldn't say its acidic enough to bring it to neutral...though that shouldn't be needed...), its a good choice for carpet.

All Fiber Rinse is a rinsing and neutralizing agent that is more acidic than is Flex Ice (2.5-3). It has very little cleaning power of its own. You would use All Fiber Rinse and products like it (Fabset/Textile Rinse) to restrict bleeding and browning on sensitive natural fiber fabrics that still might bleed or brown if you used Flex Ice. For carpet cleaning, you might want to use it if you are trying to remove as much residue of pre-existing detergents as possible and leave as little residue as possible behind.

There is not a cost savings to using Flex Ice over liquid acid rinsing agents. They are simply different products that have some uses in common, but are otherwise distinct in formulation and in their more specialized uses.

 

[Mikey P]

yeah, what he said..

 

[J Scott W]

I've heard mixed reviews about the scent, some complaints from customers,, etc... I wonder if putting in a deodorizer when mixing it up would resolve that problem? I am definitely planning on trying it only reservation is what it smells like, residential customers can be pretty particular about stuff like that.

A deodorizer can be added to Flex Ice if desired. Some have reported that they don't like the fragrance of Flex ICe. But most find that at the very high diltuion ratio used for rinsing carpet, there is not much odor at all.

 

[J Scott W]

I've never used the Prochem product but I have used other rinsing agents. I've been using the Flex Ice because of the claims made about it. I like the fact that it doesn't gunk up (why do other rinses do that, btw?). Other than that, how does one tell how good a rinse actually is besides testing the carpet for ph?

One can test the resdiues left in the carpet. One can compare cleaning ability. Another test is how the rinse product reacts with hard water and what effect this has with rinsing. These are some of the points I'll cover in the Mikey's Board webinar next month.

 

[rjwood]

Why do other rinses gunk up?

 

[hogjowl]

Firstly, Flex Ice most certainly DOES have an odor. I can smell it just sitting in the rinse jug. Secondly, I defy anyone to actually show me where it's any better at rinsing as any other rinse agent. Scott W. says we can test to see if it rinses well or leaves a residue. Well maybe he can. I can't.

Having said that, I use it on almost every job. Why?

Because I like the way it smells.

Period.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Why do other rinses gunk up?

What rinses, and how to they gunk up Al?

Do they separate or coagulate in your mix container?

Are they creating a residue that clogs your filters, check valves, or quick connects?

 

[Chris A]

If you don't like the smell of the ice try all fiber deep clean. Acid side cleaner with a nice fragrance

 

[Chris A]

And it's a liquid, no gunk

 

[hogjowl]

Ice clumps up in the jug. Takes a jack hammer to get it busted up.

Still use it though.

Cuz it smells good.

And Pemberton is my idol.

 

[rjwood]

What rinses, and how to they gunk up Al?

The name's Bob.
The rinses that come to mind are Judson's and Chemiesters'.

Do they separate or coagulate in your mix container?

Yes.

Are they creating a residue that clogs your filters, check valves, or quick connects?

No, I don't think so.

 

[rjwood]

If you don't like the smell of the ice try all fiber deep clean. Acid side cleaner with a nice fragrance

I add a fragrance to the Ice.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

The name's Bob.
The rinses that come to mind are Judson's and Chemiesters'.

Yes.

No, I don't think so.

Sorry Bob...I know an Al Wood in this business and I went on "automatic"....

If those products are coagulating in the container, I think you might have a problem with another chemical mixing with them and causing a reaction. Are you adding any deodorizer to either of the products that contains a cationic surfactant? If anionics and cationics mix, they curdle like cottage cheese.

 

[rjwood]

If those products are coagulating in the container, I think you might have a problem with another chemical mixing with them and causing a reaction. Are you adding any deodorizer to either of the products that contains a cationic surfactant? If anionics and cationics mix, they curdle like cottage cheese.

Just adding water as the directions state. Both have deodorizers already added.

 

[Mikey P]

Firstly, Flex Ice most certainly DOES have an odor. I can smell it just sitting in the rinse jug. Secondly, I defy anyone to actually show me where it's any better at rinsing as any other rinse agent. Scott W. says we can test to see if it rinses well or leaves a residue. Well maybe he can. I can't.

Having said that, I use it on almost every job. Why?

Because I like the way it smells.

Period.

If you had a rotary extractor I'd tell you to clean your next rug doctor/emulsifier hack residue job with ONLY Flex.

Both as the prespray and the rinse.


I suppose a good scrubbing and a Zeepering may work but the few I've done needed the agitation of the RE.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Just adding water as the directions state.

You need to call the manufacturer of the product(s) then. I don't work with either of them, and it wouldn't be right for me to say anything further.

I assume you are putting them in a clean container that you use for nothing else?

The only other thing that I ever saw cause that was many years ago you could by Teflon protector at a 16:1 dilution; if you mixed it with hard water it did the same thing.

 

[rjwood]

Could water hardness cause this?

 

[rjwood]

It's got to be something here because they aren't gunky in their containers, only become gunky in my container, which is the only thing I use the container for. I've rinsed the container out and it still happens.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Get water from another source, even if its a gallon of bottled water and try. I don't know enough about the products to say much about how they might react with different water sources.

Does the solution turn white? Does it stratify? How long does it take to occur?

Both are made by companies who have been a part of our industry for many, many years. I have to believe they have seen this and will have an answer for you.

 

[rjwood]

I'll do that. Thanks, Jim.

 

[Chris A]

I had info from a pretty reliable source that Flex Ice would clump up in the container if not used right away, which was why I went with the prochem product. I'm through the first case now with no issues

 

[Jeffrey Tobian]

Hi Paul I would like to try that I have been using http://www.prochem.com/ViewCategories.aspx?Pid=831 All fiber deep clean

 

[Scott S.]

Sorry Bob...I know an Al Wood in this business and I went on "automatic"....

If those products are coagulating in the container, I think you might have a problem with another chemical mixing with them and causing a reaction. Are you adding any deodorizer to either of the products that contains a cationic surfactant? If anionics and cationics mix, they curdle like cottage cheese.

to add to what jim said, make sure you prime your chem injection system until the new runse gets sucked threw the whole system, as it can congeal in your chem pump, meter, filters, so make sure you flush out whatever you were running with the new. Also doesnt hurt to just just pull some hott water threw once in a while to flush the chemical injection system.

 

[Scott S.]

I had info from a pretty reliable source that Flex Ice would clump up in the container if not used right away, which was why I went with the prochem product. I'm through the first case now with no issues

I have let flex ice sit for days in the chem rinse jug, no seperation, no clumping, nothing, and works just as well as the moment you mixed it up.

 

[Total_Rookie]

It's good but stinks.