FLEX ICE

[Mikey P]

It's not an apples to apples ($15 vs $40) comparison.

At $15 for a gallon of AFR, you're at $3.75 per chem jug. ALMOST THE EXACT SAME PRICE AS THE NORMAL DILUTION OF ICE!

Buy Ice by the case or once a year stock up and I'm sure it's even cheaper.

Id assume a five gallon tub with a packaging discount will show up once Ice has proven popular in the real world.

 

[dgardner]

In the grand scheme of things are d'limlonene and Butyl considered surfactants?

Solvents, I think.

 

[bob vawter]

ya i am the poster boy of Butyl use!

 

[Mikey P]

yeah sure, but either would cause more resoling if left behind than a true surfactant like the oh so industry popular STPP, so I have to wonder what a mill rep is really talking about.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

yeah sure, but either would cause more resoling if left behind than a true surfactant like the oh so industry popular STPP, so I have to wonder what a mill rep is really talking about.

STPP isn't a surfactant

D-limonene can cause resoiling, especially when used as a spotter, but overall surfactants are the biggest culprits.

What I was trying to address is the belief that changing the pH on a fiber would limit resoiling, which it doesn't.

 

[Mikey P]

shows what I know about chemistry

... so what is used when the two solvents mentioned are not present in the formula?


like Procyon for instance...


or Chemspec/One Earth 210?

 

[kingjoelking]

And you smell this when you put your nose in the jug?

Or coming from the wand?

When you mix and prespray.

 

[Mikey P]

You're using Ice as a prespray?

 

[Jim Pemberton]

yeah sure, but either would cause more resoling if left behind than a true surfactant like the oh so industry popular STPP, so I have to wonder what a mill rep is really talking about.

This guy was an inside research specialist, not a PR guy.

Another brilliant fiber guy who taught me a lot was the late Walt Libscomb.

He told me the problem with cleaners was that they left CRAP in carpet:

Chemical
Residues
Allowed to
Persist

 

[Mikey P]

Yet so easy not too....

But the Larry Lunchpail 90 percentiles will continue..

 

[rwcarpet]

All Fiber Rinse - $18.99 a gallon
ICE - $39.99 a 6lb jar

AFR suggests a quart per 5 gallon jug
ICE suggests 1.5 to 2 cups (12-16oz.) per 5 gal

AFR cost per 5 gal - $4.75

ICE at 1.5 cups - $3.77

ICE at 2 cups - $5.00

Thanks for the comparison Dgardener. When they start packaging in the big 5 gallon pails, it should bring the cost down. I'm sure that if you are using soft water the ICE mixture can be at the lower ratio.

 

[Mikey P]

Ive been putting 10 ounces in our 7 gallon tanks.

Judging by the foam in the (soft) rinse water, that's plenty.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Yet so easy not too....

But the Larry Lunchpail 90 percentiles will continue..

Agreed.

I just saw a great example of the "pH vs residue" thoughts:

A cleaner who uses End Zone (acid side rinse with some cleaning capability, and has surfactants as part of its formula) is creating resoiling issues in his marketplace based on how he (over)uses the product, and another cleaner is fixing the problems he creates with Cleanfree, which is mildly alkaline, and contains no surfactants.

Like Walt used to say.....just stop leaving CRAP in the carpet...

 

[Mikey P]

Are these both guys who are not using pre sprays?



I've heard and seen it so many times. In attempts to save time, cut out the prespray and use more "mix"..



Almost looks like shaving cream coming out of the wand..

 

[Jim Pemberton]

The "residue guy" is using a liquid traffic lane cleaner. The "Cleanfree" guy also presprays with Cleanfree, Flex Powder if its really greasy.

End Zone would never clean by itself no matter how strong you use it. My informed guess (knowing the "residue guy" well) is that he thinks the stronger he meters the acid, the better is rinses

 

[D Luke]

Agreed.

I just saw a great example of the "pH vs residue" thoughts:

A cleaner who uses End Zone (acid side rinse with some cleaning capability, and has surfactants as part of its formula) is creating resoiling issues in his marketplace based on how he (over)uses the product, and another cleaner is fixing the problems he creates with Cleanfree, which is mildly alkaline, and contains no surfactants.

Like Walt used to say.....just stop leaving CRAP in the carpet...

So what's your thoughts on End Zone?

Doesn't sound like you're a huge fan, but maybe that's just because you're talking about this specific cleaner.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

So what's your thoughts on End Zone?

Doesn't sound like you're a huge fan, but maybe that's just because you're talking about this specific cleaner.

Not all. I like the product a great deal. "When used as directed" it actually restricts wicking. I brought this up as an example of a good product used badly.

 

[D Luke]

Not all. I like the product a great deal. "When used as directed" it actually restricts wicking. I brought this up as an example of a good product used badly.

I like it a lot as well. Mixed at 6 oz/gal in chem jug and metered at 2 for almost evrything including upholstery and wall to wall wool.

Great product, but like you said, very little noticeable cleaning power.

 

[mirf]

My raffle prize arrived today. Wednesday looks good to give it a try.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Try it after using prespray, despite the reviews of how it works alone. If you are using it as an upholstery cleaning on delicate natural fibers, then try it as a stand alone cleaner.

 

[Larry Cobb]

In the grand scheme of things are d'limlonene and Butyl considered surfactants?

Like Dave noted, they are solvents . . .
But d'limonene does have some residue which resoils.
So it must be rinsed properly.

 

[Mikey P]

So a pre spray with no solvents and no enzymes has to rely on what to loosen greasy soil?

 

[D Luke]

So a pre spray with no solvents and no enzymes has to rely on what to loosen greasy soil?

Magic?

 

[Jimmy L]

Why that's "water softner" Mikey.

 

[J Scott W]

So a pre spray with no solvents and no enzymes has to rely on what to loosen greasy soil?

Enzymes work on organic material. This can include oils from organic sources, but most often in carpet cleaning products, enzymes are chosen to break down proteins.

Oils tend to be the most difficult type soil to remove on most carpet cleaning jobs, especially if the fiber being cleaned has an affinity or attraction for oil. This applies to oils from petroleum sources as well as vegetable oils and petroleum oils.

Surfactancy aids mainly in the release of particle soils but also helps with oils and grease.

Alkalinity is another aid to emulsifying oils and grease.

Solvents are a third approach to breaking down oils. Some solvents are better at breaking down specific types of oil.

 

[Danny Strickland]

i had a lotta fun in the 60's ...70's 80's AND the 90's.....

can't smell a damn thing!

That explains why you did't react when Mikey gased up the elevator you two criples had to ride at the restaurant at MFE???

 

[Scott S.]

Does it smell as bad as encapucleanO2 ?
Had one lady say it smelled like vomit.

i find that it has maybe a cottan candy / chemical sweet smell when im mixing it with hot water for the chemical injection. but when actually rinsing with it i dont smell anything.

 

[Mikey P]

I stuck my nose in a jar again yesterday and can see how a non curry aficionado could think it was similar to a curry odor.


I also stuck my nose in a jug of Flex powder and tm-f Tile Master and found them to be the exact same product