Help me find the right vacuum cleaner

[GeeeAus]

Sorry Ray I missed your response. I am building a customer base. Loyalty is what I'm after.

Grant

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Made in Germany.

 

[GeeeAus]

Yeah Sebo have a well deserved reputation for quality.

Grant

 

[Jim Bethel]

If you are really looking for the best vacuum and money is not the issue than I would go for a Windsor Versamatic. It is the vacuum that everyone has tried to copy.

I agree with Ray 1000% here. I have sold these units for many, many years to hospitals and building service contractors who give their machines a far bigger hiding than carpet cleaners ever will, and they just don't die! They would have to be the most reliable unit I have seen to date.

 

[Mikey P]

I see another vacuum shoot out at MF about to take place..

 

[Mikey P]

Great posts Grant, even if I disagree. ..

 

[GeeeAus]

Thanks.

I was just concerned that there had been no discussion and that the topic required some coverage.

Your could try a Royal also. Offers the same design efficiencies, but is a bit less flexible in terms if tools and misses the mark somewhat in terms if height adjustment, which is implemented in the rear axle.

Grant

 

[Mikey P]

exa tly, the Royal head does not sit right on most interfaces. I looked at your (nice) video collection to see if you had filmed on of you cleaning a stair case..


Any chance you could do a quicky for me?

 

[Mikey P]

What is your theory on why so many people are basically willing to pay me to take a Kirby away?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/sss/sby?query=kirby+vacuum&zoomToPosting=&minAsk=&maxAsk=

 

[Mikey P]

nevermind..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ndu6keHgwc

 

[GeeeAus]

Simple.

Most vacuum cleaners are setup to be easy to use, light weight and cheap to manufacture. They put tactile handling issues ahead of performance.

The Kirby is an old school vacuum, it puts performance ahead of any and all other considerations. This isn't going to endear it to Mrs. Smith who doesn't understand the difference between cheap and easy to handle, vs noisy, heavy on board nothing with power a plenty.

The thing is - YOU - are -NOT - Mrs. Smith. You are a paid contractor who routinely lugs gear in and our of his rig multiple times a day. Could you ever see Mrs. Smith bothering to figure out your truck mount? Would she ever consider buying herself a Mytee extractor and wand?

The Kirby is a commercial machine applied to a domestic setting. There it can be out of place and customers tire of it. You are not a domestic buyer, their loss is your gain.

As you say people just part with them so TRY one. I have two and I - HAMMER the SHIT out of them.

And until you try one, you'll remain sceptical of the performance.

Grant

 

[Mikey P]

Grant, you appear to have the potential to be a great member on MB.

According to a little Kangaroo Rat I know, you have left other forums never to be seen again, how do we keep that from happening here?

 

[GeeeAus]

Fell out with somebody there. Situation became non productive. Fault lies on both sides. I thought it better to just move on.

There are facets of being a carpet cleaner in Australia that are terrific but there is ugliness too. I'll hang about. You seem cool enough mate.

Grant

 

[Mikey P]

despite the goofy name, MB, is not about ME.

Sure I post a lot but the hordes of fantastic members here are what make this place The World's Greatest Carpet Cleaning Forum.


It's come down to two major sites these days, here and ***. *** is great if you're a new to the industry, portable guy looking to hang out all day long with a younger crowd and letting the resident dictator read your private messages. Or you can hide out on of of the latest "Build It And They Will Come" niche forums where 5 to 10 guys like to shout how great they are to their empty auditoriums, or you can play here with the greatest ensemble of industry superstars the Web has ever seen...


easy choice.

 

[Zee]

Back to the vacuum discussion..

I see your points. (you being salesmen: Ray, Jim, Packfan, and Grant because of his Kirby connection) no disrespect towards any of you!

BUT! In real life dry soil removal to me its more important to SEE where and how much dust is entering the dust cup, than how long a vacuum cleaner will last! To know I have to keep going over an area where there is a ton of dust and sand, is worth more than the how lo.g that vac cleaner will last. I have tried numerous bagged vacs, including Kirby and where I thought I was done- the $99 bissel momentum pulled out half a cup full of fine powdery dust.

Simple: if you can't see if anything swirling into the dust cup, you don't have an idea about how much more time to vacuum an area.

I think I get about 7-8 months out of a Momentum. With filters being changed at every job.

 

[Dolly Llama]

when you guys are counting beans on these hi-priced vacs lasting for years, some of the parts to keep them running in tip top shape (roll brush, switches, replacing smelly cloth bag holders, etc) the cost of some of those parts are near as much as a whole new Bissel.
and they still don't suck as well as Bissel

I don't know about you guys, but I can't keep a vac looking good for years.
Mine start looking beat to hell in less than a year.
When my roll brush wears out , i don't replace it..I replace the vac with bright shinny NEW Bissel ..

and it sucks better than the hi-priced vacs ta'boot

Grant, I've owned several Kirbys.
They're build like a tank and the motor will last for generations ...BUT...the Kerby/Royal design is a dinosaur...they don't suck all that great .
Debris passing thru the fan isn't such a great idea ..
the by-pass design is much better

You mention the vac fan being close to the floor as better
sounds good in principle, but that fan has PUSH debris thru the plumbing and into bag or container .
The by-pass pulls ..
both accomplish the same thing, cept the typical by-pass has more suck to start with, plus you're not degrading the performance of the fan by "sand blasting" it with every use



..L.T.A.

 

[ruff]

I agree with Ray 1000% here.

Please don't say that!
If word gets to Ray, from now on he'll be intolerable .

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Ofer,
My vast knowledge of carpet suckers has got to be worth something . I'll be reviewing your pricing in the morning

 

[jcooper]

exa tly, the Royal head does not sit right on most interfaces.

http://www.vacuum-home.com/royal-ry6900/

Same thing I tell the clients... Get one you will use, if you need to spend $500 on a dyson to make you use it... Than do it.

I have the Royal above and it is awesome: change height of the brush-roll with a button, stand it up brush-roll stops, duel motors, crazy powerful, tools etc...
However, it's very heavy and a pain in the butt to bring in. So it sits in the truck.

I would get the lightest vac, with tools that does an average job.

 

[ruff]

Ofer,
My vast knowledge of carpet suckers has got to be worth something . I'll be reviewing your pricing in the morning

Well, in that case, I agree with you 1000%

 

[Mikey P]

The Windsor/SEBO vacs are really well made with loads! of great features.


But their over filtered and don't remove half the dirt a Shark, Bissell or PROPERLY belted Sanitaire will, their for Ray will be delegated to leading a class on Basketball Court maintenance.

 

[Ray Burnfield]

Only Half the Dirt? So I ask again what's the extensive testing you have done to determine that the Shark is the best?
Even if it is the best how much better is it than the comparison vacuum. They all suck.

IMO you should have a vacuum that adequately removes soil. No vacuum is 100%

Then it's the features and benefits along with your return on investment.

Can you get us a Gym to scrub and recoat? I can make it a 2 day class and we could split the profit.

 

[Mikey P]

Dont know any better test than to take it to work with me as well as use it around my own home.



No need to get NASA or Higgins involved.

 

[Ray Burnfield]

That won't work. It's peak season for the gyms.

 

[Ray Burnfield]

I'll bet that the last time your Shark broke down your customers complained. Is that why you dumped the Vortex?

 

[Mikey P]

Dumped the Vortex?


Huh?

 

[GeeeAus]

when you guys are counting beans on these hi-priced vacs lasting for years, some of the parts to keep them running in tip top shape (roll brush, switches, replacing smelly cloth bag holders, etc) the cost of some of those parts are near as much as a whole new Bissel.
and they still don't suck as well as Bissel

I don't know about you guys, but I can't keep a vac looking good for years.
Mine start looking beat to hell in less than a year.
When my roll brush wears out , i don't replace it..I replace the vac with bright shinny NEW Bissel ..

and it sucks better than the hi-priced vacs ta'boot

Grant, I've owned several Kirbys.
They're build like a tank and the motor will last for generations ...BUT...the Kerby/Royal design is a dinosaur...they don't suck all that great .
Debris passing thru the fan isn't such a great idea ..
the by-pass design is much better

You mention the vac fan being close to the floor as better
sounds good in principle, but that fan has PUSH debris thru the plumbing and into bag or container .
The by-pass pulls ..
both accomplish the same thing, cept the typical by-pass has more suck to start with, plus you're not degrading the performance of the fan by "sand blasting" it with every use



..L.T.A.

G'day Ruff.

I agree the Kirby is an old design as is the Royal, as is the Sanitare but, so what so is the internal combustion engine, the lightbulb, the refrigeration compressor etc.

What concerns me is performance. Grab a tape measure and measure the total distance the air and soil have to travel in your bagless vacuum cleaner. I absolutely "guarantee" you it will be substantially further than the Royal, Kirby and Sanitare. I don't know if any of you guys did some science in school, but you'd surely be aware that the further something has to be moved, the more energy it takes to relocate. I just took my own advice and ran a tape measure over the air path of the Kirby from the bottom of the floor plate to the top of the bag fill tube. It measures 66cm. And the fill tube width measures 5.04cm which is 2 inches in your money. Now anybody who runs a truck mount would be aware that hose width and length matter a lot in maintaining power. Shorter and wider lengths will sustain performance better than longer and narrower lengths.

Here we have a vacuum cleaner with a bloody 2 inch air passage that's only 66cm long from floor to bag opening. And our pickup fan is a mere 12cm from the floor. It should be obvious at this point the losses owing to friction in the air delivery network are at a minimum.

Now lets's consider the dust collector of a bagless system. Most people don't stop to consider this cyclonic separator has to be driven, it actually has overheads. The dirt has to be spun at high velocity in order to generate the forces requires to separate in from the air stream. Cyclones are not free if you like. So now we need to work our how far the dirt has to travel, how narrow the air network is, and how much energy is lost over all this - and - sustaining the overheads of the cyclonic separator.

There's no such thing as a free lunch. In fluid dynamics physics this is certainly true.

Another thing that concerns me is this notion that "they don't suck as well". Well, we' need instruments to know this for sure which I think is a bit beyond Mikey's care factor. But suffice it to say you can't just put your hand over the hose and say "this one feels stronger". As I'm sure truck mount users also appreciate, there is a difference between suction (pressure) and air flow (volume). It's true that both are needed in sufficient measure to achieve useable performance. In contrast to water extraction where more water lift is better than more air movement, in dry soil extraction things are reversed. More volume is better than more velocity, I.E., more CFM is better than more inches of lift.

The Kirby doesn't have suction (pressure) as good as your bagless, but it's volume of air movement - will - leave it for dead.......

Recovering dust and hair isn't so hard, recovering sand, garden soil, shell grit, plant fibres etc is difficult. Airflow needs to be at its' maximum in order to effectively recover these soils, and these are the soils that damage the backing, abrade the pile and cause wicking issues.

I notice that the Kirby continues to test favourably against many newer and younger units in spite of it being a 100 year old design, the question is, how is this possible? Could it be that performance has given way to pretty plastics, cheap manufacturing, light weight handling, reduced noise and on board tools?

As I pointed out Mikey is NOT Mrs Smith. He's a professionally paid contractor, he's there to get the soil she can't. So he needs tools she wouldn't entertain to do that.

Dropping what amounts to a serious looking, heavy duty, metal vacuum cleaner - known by Mrs Smith to be super expensive does his image great service, and the sand and abrasive soil recovery prowess of the unit does justice to Mikey's care and quality of workmanship.

Big boys toy........BIG boys toy.

Grant

 

[Ray Burnfield]

I thought that the tread started because you went through another Shark vacuum. I also thought that you put the new Aero Tech XT in front of the other rig you have because your vacuums keep breaking. Maybe I was mistaken

 

[Dolly Llama]

There's no such thing as a free lunch. In fluid dynamics physics this is certainly true.


Grant

Grant, I'm way too dumb to understand fizzics .
But I'm pretty good at observation in practical applications

You're right it takes more than just raw vac to pull grit .
I've owned just about every vac design on the market, both com and homeowner
and I know the cheapazz Bissel pulls more sand. grit and ju-ju beads than all of them .
and for less than $100 , I can have a brand spanking shinny new one every year


..L.T.A.

 

[Monzie]

Here you go. Buy it. Try it. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tornado-CV3...592?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a31f727c8 These are awesome machines. Better performing and better handling than anything else I have used for the money.