Pro Carpet in an Action News Report!

[Ron Werner]

He'd have a lot of competition, there are a lot of cheap half assed cleaners in our area.

Larry, the point I was making is that everyone is using the same terminology. I really don't think the consumers DO know the difference. They might be thinking they could get a little better job but the company they hire says they will get the carpet clean and the house will be cleaner. Its not until they experience the difference, if they ever do, that they realize what's being left. That's like the guy that dumped a gallon of Scotchgard in a 50 gal container, the techs took a gallon, mixed it at 4:1, and applied it. He was taken to court for scamming people BUT he got off because "technically" he was applying SG. So technically even a Rug Dr will make the carpet cleaner. What do you want to compare yourself to?

Greg even said it. There is no news in doing the job right, only if people are being ripped off. I bet Greg's customers think they are getting a top job at those prices. SO you're ripping people off Daniel. !gotcha!

 

[Shane Deubell]

Economics is not a zero/sum game always.
If pro carpet gains a customer, does not mean you lose one and vise versa

If Pro carpet goes out of business tomorrow those customers do not go to the 10,000 o/o in that market, they just stop buying period.Or only buy once in a great while. He is stimulating people to act, most probably would not buy otherwise.

We are selling the invisible {good book btw} and all he is doing is letting people see the service first before committing to more money.
Not for me but the fact is this how people like to buy and elect politicians.

 

[Art Kelley]

What I can't figure out is how he can get his subs to agree to 28%. If they do $100000 gross in a year they gross $28000. When I do $100000 gross in a year my COB is between $22000 and $28000, and I don't advertise. I'm sure the sub's costs are much less using portys and custy's electricity (and water) but even then it has to be at least $12 to $15000, leaving them food stamp wages for all that work.
A buddy of mine moved to Fla after running his business for 35 years up here and he is subbing for 28%. He says he is going to contact all the people he has done after another year and use them as a customer base for his own business. He does a LOT of B/S turning 5 rooms for $40 coupon ad jobs into $400 jobs. To me the whole thing is unconscionable.

 

[Ken Snow]

Hi Art- Thappy Thanksgiving.

I know I come off as a defender of Greg, but I really don't know anything about his business other than what he has said. Some comments and questions though for you.

1. I thought Greg had said he pays more than that to his subs, why do you say 28%
2. Perhaps they do 200k plus, but even at 100k and your 28,000 example I would imagine their cost o doing this woul be no more than 10k including gas and supplies leaving 18k for them. If they are only working part time and doing their own work the majority of time this could be good supplimental income for many especially if the alternative is nothing in this economic time.
3. Your buddy's situation is awful, and it sounds like he is participating in unethical business practices and on top of that he is planning to steal from his former contractor- sounds like a person I would not want as a buddy.
4. Why do you assume Greg's company is like the one your buddy subs for?
5. If the contractor your buddy ends up stealing from is smart he probably has a non-compete, non-solicitation agreement that could get your buddy sued.

Ken

 

[truckmount girl]

At the rate the coupons state, you couldn't physically do 100K per year and be doing even a halfway decent job (remember subs are usually working alone because they can't afford to pay a helper) so it would be full time work for pennies. I think you would be better off on welfare and not busting your ass so someone else gets rich.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Ken Snow]

No idea what the coupons state, but I am sure there are major upsells involved i.e. protenctant etc. If a cleaner could do 4-5 jobs a day at 150$- call it $700 a day X 3 days a week = $2100 a week X 50= 105k

 

[truckmount girl]

No idea what the coupons state, but I am sure there are major upsells involved i.e. protenctant etc. If a cleaner could do 4-5 jobs a day at 150$- call it $700 a day X 3 days a week = $2100 a week X 50= 105k

You can't do 4-5 jobs a day with a porty (set up and tear down) by yourself and do a good job.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Ken Snow]

Never tried so I have no idea- but I never would ever say somthing can't be done even if I couln't do it. I can't run 100 yrds under 10 seconds but that has been done by lots of people.

 

[Mikey P]

Poor Cole..
And here he thought he would get a ICS type response of a few attaboys and instead his entrails get yanked out of his ass for the MB vultures to feast on..

Happy thanksgiving!

 

[Ken Snow]

LOL- I have a feeling he would have a different take on it.

 

[Brian R]

When I started out with a porty (HWE) I could do 4 jobs a day no problem. I would venture to say I did well over 100K......and still did quality work.

 

[truckmount girl]

I worked a porty for many years before I got a TM and to do a really good job three a day was max, even at three I was often gone more than 8 hours a day. Then you just HOPE they are close enough together that drive time isn't an issue...and you have to stop and eat lunch.

I didn't have auto fill/dump, but still. A lot of my customers commented about how the last people were in and out in under an hour and they felt they didn't take the time to do it correctly.

I would venture to say if you are doing 4+ jobs per day (whole houses) with a porty, you are NOT doing a great job.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Mikey P]

he got 2 responses on ICS.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

What's ICS?

 

[Art Kelley]

Hi Art- Thappy Thanksgiving.
3. Your buddy's situation is awful, and it sounds like he is participating in unethical business practices and on top of that he is planning to steal from his former contractor- sounds like a person I would not want as a buddy.

LOL. I wouldn't have any friends if judged them by their bad behaviors.

Only Cole knows what he pays his poor subs, and I wouldn't believe anything he says. But I doubt it's more than 28%. Like he says, he doesn't want to reward mediocracy.

 

[Brian R]

Some guys don't believe anything anyone says.

I believe you know the truth when you hear it.....Usually you just don't want to hear it.

 

[Greg Cole]

You're scum Cole.

"Bob...drinks TIGER BLOOD..!" :shock:

Carful bob....He will open up a shop NEAR YOU.... :mrgreen:

ROFL!
Clearly he does drink TIger Blood! He's got a little Charlie Sheen showing right now for sure!

Canada? Naaah - I'd have a hard time getting my southern CSR's to drop the "ya'lls" to start saying "eeh?"

 

[Greg Cole]

Economics is not a zero/sum game always.
If pro carpet gains a customer, does not mean you lose one and vise versa

If Pro carpet goes out of business tomorrow those customers do not go to the 10,000 o/o in that market, they just stop buying period.Or only buy once in a great while. He is stimulating people to act, most probably would not buy otherwise.

We are selling the invisible {good book btw} and all he is doing is letting people see the service first before committing to more money.
Not for me but the fact is this how people like to buy and elect politicians.

Well said Shane.

 

[Greg Cole]

[quote="Ken Snow":16uxpvzd]No idea what the coupons state, but I am sure there are major upsells involved i.e. protenctant etc. If a cleaner could do 4-5 jobs a day at 150$- call it $700 a day X 3 days a week = $2100 a week X 50= 105k

You can't do 4-5 jobs a day with a porty (set up and tear down) by yourself and do a good job.

Take care,
Lisa[/quote:16uxpvzd]

Lisa,
CORRECTION: YOU can't! And the majority of the techs running 5 or more own truckmounts.
With proper scheduling to reduce drive times - most people can easily do 5 jobs a day.

 

[Greg Cole]

[quote="Ken Snow":hi4avpz4]Hi Art- Thappy Thanksgiving.
3. Your buddy's situation is awful, and it sounds like he is participating in unethical business practices and on top of that he is planning to steal from his former contractor- sounds like a person I would not want as a buddy.

LOL. I wouldn't have any friends if judged them by their bad behaviors.

Only Cole knows what he pays his poor subs, and I wouldn't believe anything he says. But I doubt it's more than 28%. Like he says, he doesn't want to reward mediocracy.[/quote:hi4avpz4]

I wish I could get poeple to work for 28%. If you are will and will do a good job- call one of our ops managers and apply to contract work from us! I could save a TON of $

 

[Greg Cole]

Poor Cole..
And here he thought he would get a ICS type response of a few attaboys and instead his entrails get yanked out of his ass for the MB vultures to feast on..

Happy thanksgiving!

LOL- actually wouldn't have expected anything but! Mikey's is always fun. The truth of the matter is that you guys for years have said we don't do coupon job. WE Do and we did! PROVEN by a news company out to do FAR worse that Mikey's board could ever do. Yet they came up empty BECAUSE my managers do their jobs and make sure that we use top notch contractors of a similar mind.

 

[Brian R]

But they won't believe it.

!gotcha!

 

[daniel@procarpet]

[quote="Ken Snow":mn9vx1wf]No idea what the coupons state, but I am sure there are major upsells involved i.e. protenctant etc. If a cleaner could do 4-5 jobs a day at 150$- call it $700 a day X 3 days a week = $2100 a week X 50= 105k

You can't do 4-5 jobs a day with a porty (set up and tear down) by yourself and do a good job.

Take care,
Lisa[/quote:mn9vx1wf]


In the summer I can do 4-5 jobs and that is with a helper, but rarely do we do more than four.

Currently we do three per day. Things are so spread out here. I have 30-45 min drive times between drives. That, stopping to eat lunch, and the shorter days of winter have me at three decent sized jobs. If I started early and worked past dark I could do five, but I'm not going to kill myself.

Greg there is a guy here that has been running lots of crews for about 12 years (Mr. Kleen). They advertise some, but for the most part business is repeat and yes they do a shitty job every time but people want the cheap price. He still does newpaper ads, yellow pages, and a few other things but no mass coupon mailings like you. They average around 50 jobs per day. He supplies the machine and Dry Slurry. They provided the truck and labor. They get 45 percent as contract labor. I don't know how much hassle his operation is, how much he is making, or anything. All I know is that business model is not for me.

They offer add ons as well, but for the most part they do the special of three rooms for 39 or five rooms, sofa/loveseat for 99. They average 6 jobs per day. A room is any area (bathroom, hallway, entry, or any area up to 10x12. So lots of rooms count double or triple.

 

[Greg Cole]

No idea what the coupons state, but I am sure there are major upsells involved i.e. protenctant etc. If a cleaner could do 4-5 jobs a day at 150$- call it $700 a day X 3 days a week = $2100 a week X 50= 105k

an average contractor runs about $175 per job. average contractor doing 4 (some do 5-6) 4x$175= $700. Average cotnractor : 6 days per week.. $700*6 = $4200.00. Minimum commission we pay (for port based contractors) is about 30%.
$4200 *.30 = $1260 x 51 weeks = $64,260.00. Operational expenses for a 1/2 ton van w/ port w/ chems, gas, etc is 12-15% (depended on fuel cost spikes) $64260@.85= $54,621.00

This is JUST an average contractor.

I venture to say this MORE than several on here NET (before taxes) every year. This is more than many here pay their helpers and possibly even their leads.

People on here often ask me HOW i am able to do jobs so cheap and ASSUME that we MUST be baiting and switching our customers. Sadly so many here are close minded and NEVER thought of another answer to that question. For the same reason that I suppose that Ken Snow is able to clean carpet at a low rate. He makes it up in other areas (area rugs for Ken). (correct me if I am worng Ken)
We make it up in stretching, pet odors, dryer vent cleaning, air duct cleaning. water damages, area rug cleaning, upholstery cleaning, etc. It's all about marketing guys....... ALWAYS about the marketing...... shiteatinggrin

 

[Greg Cole]

If I started early and worked past dark I could do five, but I'm not going to kill myself.

Which is why our ops managers wouldn't contract work to people that have that work ethic. We look for hungry O&O's that want to work hard and make $.
Many of our contractors in both markets have been cleaning for 2-3 years prior to contracting from us. Most tried to run their own but realized that after they did all the office work, etc.. they were working 12-14 hours a day....

 

[Brian R]

Carpet Cleaning alone is not where the money is....You get in the door with that.

Some you just clean....Most you should be doing more.


And if you can make them feel comfortable with you then you will be doing more later.

That initial carpet cleaning job doesn't make much in the big scheme of things....It's like paying for your advertising upfront (Groupons)

 

[daniel@procarpet]

I guess I am just going to be broke cuz I can't keep up with the pace. :roll:

 

[Ken Snow]

Actually Greg our On Location Division is our most profitable, followed closely by our Rug Care Division.

 

[The Great Oz]

Bob's just taking a different route to making friends. Wonder where that came from?

 

[joey895]

No idea what the coupons state, but I am sure there are major upsells involved i.e. protenctant etc. If a cleaner could do 4-5 jobs a day at 150$- call it $700 a day X 3 days a week = $2100 a week X 50= 105k

an average contractor runs about $175 per job. average contractor doing 4 (some do 5-6) 4x$175= $700. Average cotnractor : 6 days per week.. $700*6 = $4200.00. Minimum commission we pay (for port based contractors) is about 30%.
$4200 *.30 = $1260 x 51 weeks = $64,260.00. Operational expenses for a 1/2 ton van w/ port w/ chems, gas, etc is 12-15% (depended on fuel cost spikes) $64260@.85= $54,621.00

This is JUST an average contractor.

I venture to say this MORE than several on here NET (before taxes) every year. This is more than many here pay their helpers and possibly even their leads.

People on here often ask me HOW i am able to do jobs so cheap and ASSUME that we MUST be baiting and switching our customers. Sadly so many here are close minded and NEVER thought of another answer to that question. For the same reason that I suppose that Ken Snow is able to clean carpet at a low rate. He makes it up in other areas (area rugs for Ken). (correct me if I am worng Ken)
We make it up in stretching, pet odors, dryer vent cleaning, air duct cleaning. water damages, area rug cleaning, upholstery cleaning, etc. It's all about marketing guys....... ALWAYS about the marketing...... shiteatinggrin

Hmmm, Let's try the math another way.

Based on your numbers $175 per job, times 4 jobs per day, times 6 days per week, times 51 weeks per year.

Gross 100% 214,200
Coles Expense -70% -149940
Chemical expense -3% -6426
Gas Expense -5% -10710
Misc Expense Uniforms, -3% -6426
Phone, office supplys,
insurance, vehicle
and equipment maint,
ect.

----------------------------------------------------
Net before taxes 40,698 or $798 per week.

Now I think it's safe to say it would take at least 10 hours per day to do four , $175 jobs with a porty so that equals 60 hours per week.

Let's see that would be $11.5 per hour.

40 hours times 11.50 equals $460.

Time and a half for 20 hours is 17.25 times 20 equals $345

For a total of $805 per week

Let's not forget about the "contractor" paying a higher tax rate for the privilege of being "self-employed" to fund social security, etc. He has no sick time, no vacation time, no unemployment if Greg lays him off, has to provide 100% of all of his insurance health, liability, disability, workers comp, etc, has to provide $100% of any retirement, etc, etc


I'm as big a free-market supporter as you'll ever find so I really don't have a problem with what Greg pays his "contractors". I generally believe that if he can get some poor dude to agree with those wages (lack of benefits) good for him. However I do believe that it's not really a free market if the playing field is not level. I'm sure Greg as some high priced lawyers to make sure he's stays within the letter of the law when it comes to his "contractors" but IMO clearly he's skirting the intent of the law. I would like to see the government EITHER give the sub-contracting laws some teeth and enforce them and close the loop holes OR completly do away with sub-contracting laws so we can ALL pay our employees as "sub-contractors" in order to skirt some taxes and expenses.

Sorry I started rambling, I'm sure Ken and Greg will shoot holes in these numbers but I think they are VERY conservative.