question for other Sapphire 1200 owners

[bensurdi]

I'll chime in.

I too was irritated by the fact that they did not design anywhere for a 5 gallon jug. In fact when it was installed they acted shocked that I would be concerned about where it was supposed to go -

For the heat - I agree. The machine really lacks heat. Its rare that it gets above 180 but I don't use it. I've only used it a few times and when I did it just didn't seem to put out much heat.

We run it on high. It takes awhile to build up heat. If they are to make any modifications to the machine that would be something they should figure out.

The good thing is, it doesn't bypass any water into the waste tank partly because it doesn't generate enough heat to need to I guess.

But, aside from the heat and the rinse jug - the machine is very nice. Good suction, simple, lots of room. Overall we're happy with the investment. I think they should offer some sort of "Salsa" upgrade though or something.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Doc...yor avatar cracks me up....poor Mikey

I have one with him as a lion tamer and you as the lion.

LOL

 

[Mikey P]

Dave and Ben are you guys running wands with greater than 6 flow?

 

[Buck1955]

My 2002 1200 had an inline valve to switch from low heat to salsa. See if you see a small lever on a stainless steel line when you look down. Mine was toward the front and left.

 

[FredC]

. Fred I have not tested them temps of the coolant or solution at different stages. I feel I should not have play mechanic on a new set up and I really am not that good at it anyway nor do I have to tools or gauges needed to do the testing. .

I agree..........

but at the same time the reality is your install was done 2k miles away and your closest distributor is 3 hours(?). It may be because I'm a "gearhead" but I couldn't see wasting all this time/money. The investment in learning your machine and a few tools and gauges is likely to save you tons of money in the future. Especially with a simple machine like the 1200. Being able to answer some simple questions may allow the folks on this forum to help you.

You may have already answered this but did the machine ever get good heat?

 

[knoxclean]

Well fred it looks like I got my answer from ben. 180 seems to be the top heat with these units. So I guess there is nothing wrong with the machine it's just built to get the water Luke warm. I was told different when I started looking. I talked to Jon Don, Interlink and Sapphire and all told me the units will do 210 easily . Mike we are running the ProChem 4 jet wand at 6 flow.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Is that 180 in the winter and 210 in warmer weather?

 

[bob vawter]

 

[knoxclean]

I think Ben got his in the summer and he claimed to not exceed 180 in most cases

 

[Desk Jockey]

I agree with Bob add a secondary heat exchanger if that 's possible.

 

[Russ T.]

Or sell it and go with Butler? It sounds like you're leaning that way already.


The Clean Machine

 

[GCCLee]

Change your vans thermostat to a 205!

 

[knoxclean]

I'll give that a try Chris

 

[FredC]

Well fred it looks like I got my answer from ben. 180 seems to be the top heat with these units. So I guess there is nothing wrong with the machine it's just built to get the water Luke warm. I was told different when I started looking. I talked to Jon Don, Interlink and Sapphire and all told me the units will do 210 easily . Mike we are running the ProChem 4 jet wand at 6 flow.

Maybe.

I guess what I don't understand is when posted that you had done the first job with the machine:

Not much to say for a review yet as far as machine goes. I cleaned a rental house of mine with it. It got hot, it sucked water and the carpet was clean.

which is why I thought it had developed the heat issue and there was actually a problem to be resolved.

If that were the case I'd start with the tstat........after measuring coolant/solution temps at the exchanger.......

 

[GCCLee]

I'll give that a try Chris

That is the only way I can get more heat from our Butler HX. Currently I use the 180 for wear and tear reasons. The hotter you run the more heat everything absorbs under your hood. Alternator, tensioner, belt, electronics etc........

180 is hot, let someone shoot you with the whip end once : )

 

[knoxclean]

Fred yea I can see that statement was confusing. When it was first delivered I cleaned my rental house which is next door to my shop. All I did was start the truck and cleaned 3 rooms of carpet. The quick connect got somewhat hot but I never got steam from the wand. I figured that because I started cold without driving the truck I would not get real hot temps so I didn't think about it much. I knew it started to get warm and I figured when we actually drove it to a job the water would pre heat and we would get to maximum temp. I spoke too early

 

[GCCLee]

Takes mine about 4 miles to get up to temp. From a warm garage

 

[ruff]

I'm getting a sliding door. (have to because a lot of the time when I park, there's sidewalk trees and I would not be able to open the doors.)

• Ray's suggestion for the concentrate solution tank is to get a narrow tank from a farm supply place and make a frame to hold it in place the bottom being on the side step.

• Also the metal vacuum connect should be changed in mine to a gentle curve (90 degree) going down. I'll have an opening on the side step, so that I can connect from the floor, the hose laying flat on the side walk. The hole in the door won't work for me, as it will go into sidewalk and may trip people (this is a big issue here in S.F.)

I like a lot of what the pro-1200 has to offer, however, I'd very much like to see how SS handles these issues and what solutions are offered, before I make the final decision.

Chris, I assume that getting the thermostat of the van higher may result in hotter water. Will it void the van's (GM) warranty??
And David is spot on, these are all issues that SS should have addressed. They're still a new company, so I'm sure they are still tweaking things and in the past they have been pretty responsive.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Seems like there is room between the reel and machine for a shelf to hold 2.5g jugs.?

 

[Jim Martin]

anyone have a diagram of how the water is routed thru this machine...........

 

[Mark Saiger]

I have not seen the 1200 heat exchangers so I am not sure if this would work, but is there room to be able to wrap the heat exchanger with heat wrap such as done on header pipes and I think I have even seen Les do this on one or so of his units. I know my brother had done that in the past on our Butlers before they went to the high heat options.

My high heat butlers hold over 240 degrees at the van even in the -35 below zero weather, no problem. And they get there pretty fast as well.

Inside the house we are also seeing well over 200 degrees. I believe Bill Soukoreff has also tested his high heat Butler in similar cold situations and as I recall it was something like 210 degrees at the wand with a lie detector. He could confirm if he sees this.

Hoping there is a solution to this as I sure do enjoy have more heat available after going to the high heat option.

Mark Saiger

 

[ruff]

Seems like there is room between the reel and machine for a shelf to hold 2.5g jugs.?

Not if you're having a regular size van (not extended) yet trying to maximize storage space in the back.

 

[GCCLee]

Chris, I assume that getting the thermostat of the van higher may result in hotter water. Will it void the van's (GM) warranty??
And David is spot on, these are all issues that SS should have addressed. They're still a new company, so I'm sure they are still tweaking things and in the past they seemed to be pretty responsive.

That is a question best asked to a dealership parts dept I'd think. If it comes OEM installed on any configuration of the particular motor in question, then I would think not at all.
And as far as major changes made to our 02 Rig. All we did was extend the Hoses under the hood by a 1/4 mile so they would reach between the seats, installed a Ford Belt, scooted the AC comp over one notch so the clutch would fit : ) not much.

When I first got the Genie, it took a while to learn her tune. It was new. I made changes Bawb said was stupit, made some changes back and learned alot. Like the whole transfer pump bs that had me run 25 miles back into town so I could snatch a dang garden hose. Oh and the TWO times I called in a panic and was told tighten your blower belts dumazz : )

I can Guarantee that if I were to by a New Rig and have it shipped in. No matter who build it or installed It. I could find something to improve on it somewhere.
SO my suggestion would be at this point is to: make a determination if a Warranty issue is at head, or if the rig just needs to be tweeked to fit this particular users needs and wants. I think running it's azz off will determine this outcome.

 

[bob vawter]

warranty??

any problems.....jus snatch the 205 back out an' put in the stock 195 or whatever...
do i gotta tell you guys everything!

 

[hogjowl]

The Sapphire supplier that Is 3 hours away from David is Truck Mounts and Cleaning Solutions, which is where he should have bought this1200 from. I'm privy to why he bought it from Olsen, and understand why he chose to do it, but I would never have done it. I'd want TCS's support. They are also 3 hours from me, but I still buy everything equipment related and as much as I can, chemical wise, from them. Driving three hours to see them is never an issue for me. I like seeing them (they're good people) and I want to keep them close. So I drive there two or three times a year.

I guarantee you Mike (the owner of TCS) will hear from me regarding David's heat issues. He needs to know that before he sells a 1200 to some unsuspecting cleaner. He and I have already discussed the low lift concerns I've read about with the Cleanco's that he also sells.

The issue I have with Sapphire and Cleanco is that TCS, Olsin, and I suspect most distributors, haven't sold enough of either to have gained the necessary experience and buyer feed back to really be up on any issues. I bet you Mike is unaware the 1200 lacks heat, and I bet Olsen wasn't aware if it either prior to this.

This was Olsins first 1200 sale, and I don't believe TCS has sold one either. I don't think TCS has installed more than a handful of Cleanco's.

While the lack of local support is a minor negative with Butler, the reliability, consistency, and long term experience of their installations is a MAJOR asset. I've seen three different 1200 installs and they all were different to some degree.

If I had to make the decision today, I'd have a hard time deciding between the reliability and proven performance of Butler or a Cleanco by TCS with their local support.

One thing I know for certain. It wouldn't be a 1200.

I might be willing to lose a couple of inches of lift with a Cleanco, but I darn sure don't want to lose 30 degrees of water temperature with a Sapphire!

 

[mirf]

The White magic has a heat booster called the vulcan which brought it up to about 210 - 215. it has been along time but I think without this option only 180 was expected.

 

[Out of Character - 0]

The sapphire has the "vulcan" blower hx. It just appears they modified things into not working as well.

 

[ruff]

The White magic has a heat booster called the vulcan which brought it up to about 210 - 215. it has been along time but I think without this option only 180 was expected.

I think all the Pro 1200's come with the Vulcan.
And if I understand David correctly, that seem to create an issue if the blower is not run at full load for a while.

 

[knoxclean]

Marty is right to let his supplier know about the problems with the 1200. At this time I would advise John and all other distributers to not sell one of those units until Sapphire admits they have a problem with this unit and comes up with a fix for it. They are lying to consumers about the heat. I thought it was very strange that when Sapphire sent me to Nashville to get the machine looked at they sent me to someone other than Interlink who sells these units for them. The guy who looked at it almost immediately knew what to do to get the heat up by blocking the vac port to heat the blower. He didn't really look for any other problems. I makes sense now that Sapphire told him what to do. I guess they wanted to keep this away from Interlink and sent me to a smaller shop. Well seems to me there is some sort of cover up here and I want to go on record here that I expect to hear from Sapphire on Monday and find out what they plan to do about my machine and explain why we are being lied to. Ben may just accept that 180 is OK but I don't. I bought the machine thinking I would get heat over 210

 

[Russ T.]

Taken from my Cleanco, I think this was a crisp December day. It does take a little bit to get there. My manual says 14 Hg of lift I think, I have the Compact 47. The free exchange of all this info is so beneficial. Companies will have to stop making false claims.


The Clean Machine