570 divertor?

[SamIam]

So I havent got the temp control fixed or working! low 195, med 215 , high 245 something liie that.

My 405 I could turn the heat exchanger off and the machine would produce less heat and never bypass. It will sit at 200 ATM all day. I turn on the heat exchanger it will blast 240 consistanly ATM.

the temp dial when working correctly can be set from 100 to 240 and it will bypass to maintain that tempurature.

I wonder does the 570 have the ability to divert heat exhaust out away from the heat exchanger and run cooler without bypassing water like mad????

Or is it just designed to produce massive heat and bypass excess heat without diverting the heat away Some time I would be happy to have it sit at 200 without it bypassing.

I was told there are older models thst do divert.

 

[SamIam]

The other thing is I'm using more green products so I can recycle the water to plants and trees. but I would prefer to waste as little water as possible

 

[GeneMiller]

Sam I haven't studied the heat exchanger yet but I'm pretty sure that it uses a vacuum pump to move an exhaust diverter. I don't have the dial, I have low medium high. Since the exhaust is buried inside of the water box you will get at least the temperature of the bypass valve used. Changing the temperature lower should close the exhaust diverter causing the water to heat less. It will only bypass into the waste tank when you exceed the set temperature.

Gene

 

[GeneMiller]

The other thing is I'm using more green products so I can recycle the water to plants and trees. but I would prefer to waste as little water as possible

regardless of the product plants like a certain ph to grow properly. Grass for example if you raise the ph of the soil will probably die. Most plants grow well in slightly acid soils. I grow lettuce in 5.5 ph. You can use the water for plants but to much in the same area over and over will raise the ph of the soil causing negative results.

Gene

 

[SamIam]

I've dumped on my lawn and trees no chemicla burn yet, mostly I aim for trees.

 

[GeneMiller]

I've dumped on my lawn and trees no chemicla burn yet, mostly I aim for trees.

The ph doesn't burn them. They absorb the nutrients they need only in a certain range. Outside of that range key nutrients are locked out. If the ph is to high or low they suffer. Iron for example isn't absorbed at a higher ph. All plants are different but most prefer a slightly acidic soil. In the chart, marijuana won't absorb any nutrients if the soil is above 9 ph. No I don't grow marijuanaa but they always have the best chart and most up to date info. They still absorb the water but you starve them from the nutrients they need. If you water the same plant to many times the damage will start to show with yellowing first.

Gene

 

[dgardner]

So I havent got the temp control fixed or working!

Sam are you trying to fix it yourself, or are you having your mechanic/dealer fix it?

 

[hogjowl]

I love simple TM's.

 

[GeneMiller]

The sapphire machines aren't that complex. It just takes a little bit of time to learn the system. The heat is beyond belief. It was the simple machine from cobbs that was broke for weeks on end.

Gene

 

[dgardner]

Sam - as Gene mentioned there is an exhaust diverter that either sends exhaust through the HX or around it. The diverter moves in or out by means of a Bimba pneumatic cylinder. By your description (temperature knob continuously variable) I assume your machine is serial 343 or earlier. Later models used a 4-position switch and were setup slightly different.

So, basically - as the temperature increases above the setting the temperature switch closes and sends 12V to a solenoid air-valve (Mac Valve). The air valve switches vacuum to one of two ports on the Bimba air cylinder, causing the exhaust to be diverted. When the temp goes back down the process is reversed, closing the diverter.

Possible causes:

• No power to the thermostat. Unlikely, as it gets power from the same place as temp gauge and hour meter.
• Bad thermostat. If the dial is set colder than the current temp it should send 12V out.
• Broken wire between the thermostat and Mac Valve, or bad ground wire to the Mac Valve.
• Bad Mac Valve. When it gets the 12V from the thermostat it should switch the vacuum ports.
• Broken, cracked or kinked vacuum lines - one from the blower inlet to the Mac Valve and two from the Mac Valve to the Bimba air cylinder.
• Bad Bimba air cylinder.
• Linkage issues from the air cylinder to the diverter valve (i.e. the clevis pin fell out or something like that).
• diverter plate stuck (gummed up with exhaust deposits?).
• There has to be at least 7 in Hg at the blower inlet or there won't be enough vacuum to move the air cylinder. Unlikely - if your vac is that low you would have noticed!

 

[SamIam]

Its 403 or something like that and I have the temp switch that says off low medium high 4 position switch! My question is more for sapphire if the temp switch is working right and I put it on low temp does it stay at 195 degrees by somehow not using the heat exchanger and diverting? thus not dumping like mad? I told my distributor they said they put a call into sapphire I've never been called back by Mitch or Empire.

Mitch told me months ago that the switch maybe bad. The pump out had a diode on the machine that popped and they cut it off and bypassed it with a wire so now if the pump gets over loaded it will trip the breaker on the machine.

Also can these machine be descaled if theres no water box????

 

[SamIam]

It does produce mad heat and vacuum just want temp control and less bypassing

 

[SamIam]

when I drove an hour to mitchs last time I told him what was up thats when they out in the call to sapphire.

I when I got down there they only tested the heat temp valve at the back of the machine and determined it was opening up at the right temp. Even though I already figured that out. I dont think they get what themp switch if for and that it should divertto control th temp better

 

[dgardner]

I put it on low temp does it stay at 195 degrees by somehow not using the heat exchanger and diverting?

Yes - if it's working properly the diverter opens and sends exhaust around the HX coils instead of through them, but the exhaust is always preheating the water in the water box, so you always get some heat input.

When you set the temp setting on low how high does the actual temp go?

 

[hogjowl]

Sam - as Gene mentioned there is an exhaust diverter that either sends exhaust through the HX or around it. The diverter moves in or out by means of a Bimba pneumatic cylinder. By your description (temperature knob continuously variable) I assume your machine is serial 343 or earlier. Later models used a 4-position switch and were setup slightly different.

So, basically - as the temperature increases above the setting the temperature switch closes and sends 12V to a solenoid air-valve (Mac Valve). The air valve switches vacuum to one of two ports on the Bimba air cylinder, causing the exhaust to be diverted. When the temp goes back down the process is reversed, closing the diverter.

Possible causes:

• No power to the thermostat. Unlikely, as it gets power from the same place as temp gauge and hour meter.
• Bad thermostat. If the dial is set colder than the current temp it should send 12V out.
• Broken wire between the thermostat and Mac Valve, or bad ground wire to the Mac Valve.
• Bad Mac Valve. When it gets the 12V from the thermostat it should switch the vacuum ports.
• Broken, cracked or kinked vacuum lines - one from the blower inlet to the Mac Valve and two from the Mac Valve to the Bimba air cylinder.
• Bad Bimba air cylinder.
• Linkage issues from the air cylinder to the diverter valve (i.e. the clevis pin fell out or something like that).
• diverter plate stuck (gummed up with exhaust deposits?).
• There has to be at least 7 in Hg at the blower inlet or there won't be enough vacuum to move the air cylinder. Unlikely - if your vac is that low you would have noticed!

View attachment 4653

LOL. Oh no. They're not complicated!
Not a bit.

 

[dgardner]

Listing every nut, bolt and wire makes it seem that way, but basically a thermostat runs a vacuum-operated diverter valve. In the grand scheme of today's world that's not very complicated....

(says the industrial tech who works on way more complicated controls every day - I forget sometimes not everyone does this all the time )

 

[SamIam]

Yes - if it's working properly the diverter opens and sends exhaust around the HX coils instead of through them, but the exhaust is always preheating the water in the water box, so you always get some heat input.

When you set the temp setting on low how high does the actual temp go?

It can be off or low it goes to 240 to 280 until the by opens up when that happens if the machine is getting full the vacuum drops dramstically

 

[SamIam]

I know it's the temp switch or diverter valve

 

[SamIam]

I wish this machine would use about the same amount of water as my 405 and not double

 

[GeneMiller]

LOL. Oh no. They're not complicated!
Not a bit.

I had far more problems with my propane burner than I have with hx's. The design is brilliant and very reliable. Here are a couple of solutions for the massive heat these units product. One is up your flow. The 570 can easily take a high flow tool with no problems. If you run the heat on low that will stop the hx from heating more water. Between the two it will control water bypassing. You can also add an apo.

Gene

 

[Mikey P]

I wish this machine would use about the same amount of water as my 405 and not double

Use as in bypass?

 

[Mikey P]

I've dumped on my lawn and trees no chemicla burn yet, mostly I aim for trees.

Ive dumped on the same lawns for years, over the years with only positive results, other than the stench.

 

[GeneMiller]

Ive dumped on the same lawns for years, over the years with only positive results, other than the stench.

A lot depends on the ph of the water coming out and the soil it's going in. Some soil such as sand allow unwanted contaminates to pass through after a thorough rain or watering. I'm not saying don't do it just not the same spot all the time. I use it on my lawn.

Gene

 

[hogjowl]

I had far more problems with my propane burner than I have with hx's. The design is brilliant and very reliable. Here are a couple of solutions for the massive heat these units product. One is up your flow. The 570 can easily take a high flow tool with no problems. If you run the heat on low that will stop the hx from heating more water. Between the two it will control water bypassing. You can also add an apo.

Gene

I don't follow you on your comment about having problems with a propane burner. I've been using them for over twenty five years with no problems other than cleaning the burner ring or singing the hair off my arm.

However, I would like to get rid of them. The van heat they generate and the space they take up is annoying.

 

[GeneMiller]

Flame constantly going out, ring getting clogged ,igniter not working. That's three more problems than I've ever had with my hx systems. Having to clean with cold water because I'm out of propane again. 12 gallon belly tank that had to be filled at least 2 times a week. Only two places any where near that would fill it. All tanks here have to be inside the fenced area. Stop and get gas and then go and get propane some where else. The truth isn't as easy as, yeah just light it and get super hot water. TeMperaTure spikes anyone. Please, I ran it for years like most.

Gene

 

[hogjowl]

Igniter ? NOBODY actually uses those.

Clean your burner ring, doofus.

You don't buy propane at gas stations or RV parks. You buy it from a propane dealer that gives you a key to the gate. Of course, without my kind, friendly personality, I can see why you were screwed in that area.

 

[GeneMiller]

Igniter ? NOBODY actually uses those.

Clean your burner ring, doofus.

You don't buy propane at gas stations or RV parks. You buy it from a propane dealer that gives you a key to the gate. Of course, without my kind, friendly personality, I can see why you were screwed in that area.

My little giant came with an ignitor to light the pilot. Not sure what your using. yes take out the ring and clean it, constantly, high humidity wreaks havoc on it. And yes go buy gas and then make another trip to get propane. No thanks, been there done that. Personality aside its still an extra trip.

Gene

 

[hogjowl]

Fireplace lighter.

Simpler is better in TM's.

 

[SamIam]

Called Mitch he's calling sapphire about problem said it could be a wiring thing

 

[SamIam]

Tom M says the diveter is stuck and needs grease