870 won't run

ruff

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Ofer Kolton
Art, I respectfully disagree.
A back up unit for an owner operator that has a good quality machine that is maintained well , is an expensive luxury.

Cost of insurance, maintenance, vehicle license, time maintaining a backup machine that is likely to be older and require more attention, loss of value, etc... all for the occasional once in five years cancellation? In my opinion is not worth it.

Given, in 26 years in business, I've only had PTOs (2x CdSs and one pro-1200). And the times I've had to re-schedule in those 26 years can be counted in less fingers than my hand has.

I guess if you like doing a lot of maintenance and want to maintain an ego boosting claim to never cancelling a single appointment (Good luck. Not gonna happen!) in your entire career, it is worth it.

For an O/O, a portable as a backup will do fine.
If you have a few vans working, then yes, I agree a backup truck mount is warranted. It is a different kind of business.
 
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GeneMiller

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Ofer in all these years I have only used a slide in. I could also count on one hand the days I have had to reschedule. I can and have done repairs on the spot. Hoses, couplers, bypassing heat exchangers, cracked fittings. Ect.

All done for tonight. Unfortunately I'm still at square one but I have a lot of valuable knowledge. Tomorrows a new day. I cleared the codes and will check them tomorrow.


Gene
 
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Able 1

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Slide in's are the only way to go,you just need to pick a good one (not saying SS doesn't make a good one)..

A back up for a O/O can be important if things need to be done on said day, and you have a good helper then you just split up on the smaller jobs.. Saved my ass big time this year!
 
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Able 1

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We hardly ever call customer because we are running late (with a half hour window ). To say "we can't make it today" is unacceptable!
 

Jim Martin

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Halwin switch is bad. I cant see any other problem. You cant just unplug it. The machine won't turn over. It connects a circuit. I installed a good one. I did unstick the little reed but it didn't last.

Gene

you installed a " good one "....was it a new one....

explane the " little Reed " thing to me....

and what do you mean it did not last...is the float switch still broke....?


http://www.harwil.com/products/level-switches/l21n-level-switch
 

GeneMiller

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Fixed. Yep all fixed. For those that don't know or care I am a follower of Jesus Christ. We always pray before going to bed. Last night I included that he please show me the problem. When I woke up I knew exactly where to look. I opened the fuel box and immediately saw the blue connector. It wasn't pushed in correctly. I know some reading will think I probably pulled on it but it's fed through a 2" PVC conduit and it's about 5' longer than necessary. I am ridiculously meticulous and careful. The tape is wrapped two close to the plug and pulls on the wires. The opposite side is also trying to come out.

I really want to thank sapphire for taking the time to care. If nothing else I know how to completely diagnose this machine. Also code 17 which isn't in the book is a wire not connected.

image.jpg

Gene
 

GeneMiller

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you installed a " good one "....was it a new one....

explane the " little Reed " thing to me....

and what do you mean it did not last...is the float switch still broke....?


http://www.harwil.com/products/level-switches/l21n-level-switch
Jim I tapped on the body and then the micro switch started working. You could hear the click which is what gave it away initial. I did confirm with a meter. It didn't last but two throws and then it stopped again. It wouldn't matter anyway because it was stuck closed. Wouldn't mater until the tank filled anyways. Pretty sure the harmonics of this machine cause a problem for these switches and harwil made some changes. Anyway yes I put in a new one because it was just faster.
 

Sapphire

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Gene, very glad you are good to go. Sorry we could not fix that yesterday. Your mechanical skills and little divine intervention make it a good day.
We will follow up and make sure to document the issues.
Thanks
Dorrel
 

GeneMiller

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It's running great but there isn't any heat. On high heat medium speed pull the zipper and it drops to 170. What's the preheat valve do?


Gene
 

GeneMiller

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Now it's holding 195 constant flow. Maybe I have to break it in. That's on medium speed high heat one zipper.




Gene
 

SamIam

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Check the hg on the vacuum sealed, my 570 out of the box would go over 10 Hg Inge vacuum gauge and the machine wouldn't get hot.
Adjusted it to 12 with a wand on the carpet or 14 sealed at the machine. And it gets smoking hot and stays hot
 

SamIam

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The vacuum relief probably needs adjusting.

I'm guessing it's the 4-10 blower they same as the 650hp just spinning faster
 

GeneMiller

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the vacuum relief is one of the parts they upgraded. It doesn't have enough threads. It's all the way in and won't go above 13hg

Gene
 

GeneMiller

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It is about 3 decibels quieter than my thermal wave 5m. That's a huge difference. Mike can you take a picture of how you connected in your pump. Has to go in through the front so you don't bypass the pressure gauge. What pump are you using.

Gene
 

dgardner

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It is about 3 decibels quieter than my thermal wave 5m. That's a huge difference.
Gene,

3dB is not a very big difference, perception-wise. It is the smallest change normally detected by the human ear. Play your favorite song at normal listening level. Now turn up the volume until you just detect the smallest increase. That's about 3dB.

In physics 3dB is double the energy (power), but our ears don't have a linear response. 3dB is just detectable, while 10dB is perceived as twice as loud. Ah, the wonders of logarithms...
 

GeneMiller

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A few thoughts

The installation was pretty smooth, except for the holes on the left side, which are virtually impossible to drill without special tools and bits. One of the holes could have been moved a couple of inches, and it could have been drilled with a regular drill.

There are no shut off valves on the solution connections on the machine. Maybe it's just, me but mine always have it. It's a personal preference, plus a safety issue. When that fitting fails and is open, incredibly hot water is coming out.

The fit and finish are very nice, but the right door has to be forced to make it fit. They did a nice job on the front panel. It comes off without having to take off any fittings.

I put the tank to the right,mcentered against the bulk head. I wish they would offer an option for that. My supplier says I'm one of a kind, but I would pay extra for it. I'd also like to see stainless fitting anywhere that touches chemicals.

Getting the vacuum connections to match up wasn't simple nor pretty. I didn't remember to call Butler and see if their hose will work. I would like it to be nice and clean. Currently it's driving me crazy. I might have to paint everything black so it looks better. Not the machine just the fittings. I have an aluminum mandrel connected with that black stuff they send. Then I have PVC with that black stuff. Works fine but I will look for another option.

There is no cooling for the belts so I'll install my own. Same thing I used on the previous machine. Just a radiator fan mounted in plexiglass. I saw a drain for the oil but not the pump. I'll add that for convience.
Stupid Harwil switch works intermitantly. You can lightly tap it and it stops or starts agin. I had one like this before that would suddenly fail. Easier to just replace it. I'm not even going to bother to take it apart.

I ran it on high heat, medium speed, with one zipper attached and maintained 195. My thermal wave held 220. I attached two zippers and it held at 170, my thermal wave, barely 140. I was expecting much better heat. Nothing is bypassing. All the fittings that go to the tank are cool. They show a video using two spinners with much higher pressure holding better heat. The recovery is almost instant, but so is the temperature drop. Something is off there.

The check engine light came on after 30 minutes, running it at high heat and high temp, with two zippers attached. Water started pouring out the radiator fitting for the thermal well and ran for about 5 minutes until I pulled and reconnected the garden hose. That was the second or third time that it did that. Luckily I drilled a hole and ran it underneath. Something's going on. The light went off after I slowed the speed to medium. It idled rough after that, and I thought it was going to die. It never did. I don't know if it stored a code. It's to slow to check, and it's blazing outside!!! I'll add a permanent switch so I can check codes easily.

For those that keep saying where's your supplier he was always there. He even offered to meet today Sunday at 2. However, nobody except someone like Jim Martin could do a better job than I would. I'm very meticulous. I cleaned out under the machine spotless. Then I cleaned the walls. Every thing got measured, placed, and every bolt got polyurethaned. I'm far to finicky to let someone else do it. I know the distrubitors don't like to hear it but I probably have more knowledge than most that are installing their machines. I used to build custom furniture and that definitely caries over.

I don't blame anybody about the plug. There is no pressure on it, at all, but when you put the fuel box together you have to bend the wire over. There's no choice. I have a big loop inside, before the wire feeds out. I made it so it pulls the least possible. The shield and tape are to close to the plug, and that causes extra pressure on the wire. When they ran it at Sapphire, the guy might have pulled on the wire, instead of the plug, to disconnect it. And, that was all it took. It shouldn't come out that easy.

Gene
 

GeneMiller

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Gene,

3dB is not a very big difference, perception-wise. It is the smallest change normally detected by the human ear. Play your favorite song at normal listening level. Now turn up the volume until you just detect the smallest increase. That's about 3dB.

In physics 3dB is double the energy (power), but our ears don't have a linear response. 3dB is just detectable, while 10dB is perceived as twice as loud. Ah, the wonders of logarithms...
Yes I know. However, the difference is in hearing loss.
 
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For those that don't know or care I am a follower of Jesus Christ. We always pray before going to bed. Last night I included that he please show me the problem.

This is something my wife would say and do. She is usually right.

Halwin switches, error codes, little blue connectors not connected, whatever. If I learned anything by reading this, it would be to copy your patience.

I hope these are all small shakedown problems and you have years of trouble free service from your machine.
 
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Slide-ins are by their very nature no where near as reliable as a direct drive. When you get in a new van it starts, so your direct drive machine will start. Not so with a new van and a slide in. Cars have 125 years of engineering behind them, tens of thousands of engineers made sure your car starts. Slide-ins have a couple of decades and a small handful of engineers spread out over dozens of disparate machines. You need a backup.
A TM is nothing more than an assembly of off the shelf parts.

I don't know who makes the engine in a SS 870, but it wasn't designed and engineered by SS.
 

mirf

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I am sure you will get it, great job on calling it a night and asking for help and patience.
 

SamIam

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I actually added washers behind the spring because of the threading on the vacuum relief to get it where I need it
 

Papa John

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Fixed. Yep all fixed. For those that don't know or care I am a follower of Jesus Christ. We always pray before going to bed. Last night I included that he please show me the problem. When I woke up I knew exactly where to look.
View attachment 4171
Gene

I LOVE to hear when this happens.. Its a Great Feeling when you ask Jesus Christ, superior being, or the Universe for help and IT delivers.. the trick is to Humble yourself, have love an your heart and He will guild you along the way.-- It really lets you know that Someone or some thing Has Your Back If you only ask for help--- I wish more people could experience this feeling.. It makes me sad for the non-believer.
 

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