A few words about the upcoming systems I'll be building...
- Thread starter Duane Oxley
- Start date
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Thanks, Dale.
Credit where credit is due."", regarding ideas. And Paul had a great one regarding boosting airflow through the blower.
The common approach with exchanger systems I've seen is to starve the blower, in order to strain it and increase the output temperature. It's usually done via bushing down the blower intake and using smaller plumbing than the blower was designed for.
Paul's idea was to do the opposite. I agree with his idea and will be using it on the systems we produce from here on. (It's not to use over- sized plumbing on the blower inlet and outlet, BTW. I'm being cryptic about what it is for now, though.)
Duane
Credit where credit is due."", regarding ideas. And Paul had a great one regarding boosting airflow through the blower.
The common approach with exchanger systems I've seen is to starve the blower, in order to strain it and increase the output temperature. It's usually done via bushing down the blower intake and using smaller plumbing than the blower was designed for.
Paul's idea was to do the opposite. I agree with his idea and will be using it on the systems we produce from here on. (It's not to use over- sized plumbing on the blower inlet and outlet, BTW. I'm being cryptic about what it is for now, though.)
Duane
hogjowl
Idiot™
I would much rather see you produce one or two systems and get them tweaked out and actually working without going ape shit and designing all over the map.
How about making sure these first few systems get in the hands of some BB posters who won't bullshit you about how they work. (Not me ... I get everything I test for free.)
How about making sure these first few systems get in the hands of some BB posters who won't bullshit you about how they work. (Not me ... I get everything I test for free.)
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Hey, Mardy...
I have no reservations about selling systems to someone on the board. In fact, the more, the merrier.
But on these first ones, I want them to be close by... as in, an hour or less... preferably only minutes away. That way, I can keep a closer eye on them and have first- hand access if something unforseen happens, related to the design itself.
This is something I've always done. The first PowerPak was intentionally local. The first Predator "CP" system was. The first exchangers will be. It's simply the best way to test.
At this point, I have 3 Nemesis systems sold. One of the buyers is a long- time friend, who's local in Atlanta and doesn't post here. I'm planning to meet with him Monday and see about having him get the first Xcel instead, so that I can get testing underway on that.
The Kero systems are a no- brainer for me. I know someone who makes them, who's given me a road map. And I have someone who simply will not buy L.P. or an exchanger system, but will buy 3 kero systems, if the first one runs as well as he wants. The only real modification is the burner and an additional alternator. The frame, the heater coil, everything else, stay the same. I can literally do it in my sleep. So, it's a given that I'll be making it happen.
Regarding designing "so much"... That's what I enjoy. And when I'm in, "design mode" as my girlfriend refers to it, I don't have a lot of choice anyway, because I can't really rest, until I get the ideas down somehow.
The thing is that the HX idea is something I've held off on for years now. As I said before, I decided not to build one until I had a design I feel very good about.
Well, now, I have 2 of them completed, in terms of the design itself... And a third waiting to come to life.
Hey, you know, I appreciate your comments, Porky. Even if they are just "contrarian for the sake of being contrary". 8)
I have no reservations about selling systems to someone on the board. In fact, the more, the merrier.
But on these first ones, I want them to be close by... as in, an hour or less... preferably only minutes away. That way, I can keep a closer eye on them and have first- hand access if something unforseen happens, related to the design itself.
This is something I've always done. The first PowerPak was intentionally local. The first Predator "CP" system was. The first exchangers will be. It's simply the best way to test.
At this point, I have 3 Nemesis systems sold. One of the buyers is a long- time friend, who's local in Atlanta and doesn't post here. I'm planning to meet with him Monday and see about having him get the first Xcel instead, so that I can get testing underway on that.
The Kero systems are a no- brainer for me. I know someone who makes them, who's given me a road map. And I have someone who simply will not buy L.P. or an exchanger system, but will buy 3 kero systems, if the first one runs as well as he wants. The only real modification is the burner and an additional alternator. The frame, the heater coil, everything else, stay the same. I can literally do it in my sleep. So, it's a given that I'll be making it happen.
Regarding designing "so much"... That's what I enjoy. And when I'm in, "design mode" as my girlfriend refers to it, I don't have a lot of choice anyway, because I can't really rest, until I get the ideas down somehow.
The thing is that the HX idea is something I've held off on for years now. As I said before, I decided not to build one until I had a design I feel very good about.
Well, now, I have 2 of them completed, in terms of the design itself... And a third waiting to come to life.
Hey, you know, I appreciate your comments, Porky. Even if they are just "contrarian for the sake of being contrary". 8)
Supersucker
Member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2008
- Messages
- 149
Would a threaded end-cap work as well and seal better?
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Hey, Matt...
Thanks.
There are several ways to do it, including a screw- on cap, screw- in plug, and a flange, in addition to the way I chose. (I referenced them all in the patent application.)
I didn't go with the screw- in kind, because I had a concern that they might bond over time due to heat- caused expansion / contraction, etc. And if that happens, they would be a serious pain to open.
I didn't go with the flange, because it would have to extend out from the exchanger more than I want.
The cap I designed is split in 4 places. That allows it to expand and be pried off, if prying is necessary. With a sealer and a clamp around it, it won't leak.
Thanks.
There are several ways to do it, including a screw- on cap, screw- in plug, and a flange, in addition to the way I chose. (I referenced them all in the patent application.)
I didn't go with the screw- in kind, because I had a concern that they might bond over time due to heat- caused expansion / contraction, etc. And if that happens, they would be a serious pain to open.
I didn't go with the flange, because it would have to extend out from the exchanger more than I want.
The cap I designed is split in 4 places. That allows it to expand and be pried off, if prying is necessary. With a sealer and a clamp around it, it won't leak.
Steve Smith
Member
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2006
- Messages
- 176
Duane,
Do you currently build a kero/diesel truckmount?
Is the burner 12V or 110?
What size motor and blower are you using?
Thanks.
Do you currently build a kero/diesel truckmount?
Is the burner 12V or 110?
What size motor and blower are you using?
Thanks.
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Steve:
The burner parts are ordered for the first one. I'm supposed to have it completed in 4 weeks. It runs on 12 volts DC, using a car alternator to provide the extra amperage to keep from draining the battery. (It requires 14 to 16 amps, which, even with a heavy- duty, 25 amp charging system on the Kohler, would be more than the Kohler's system could reliably maintain, with the system's other requirements figured in.)
The one I'm building for this customer is a 27 Kohler / 4005 Tuthill combination, with a Cat 290 pump and continuous pump out. The burner can deliver up to 400,000 BTU, but being tuned down to 250,000, which will give well into the mid- 200's at 2 GPM (about 600 PSI through a #6 jet or equivalent).
I'll have one to show you in 3 to 4 weeks...
The burner parts are ordered for the first one. I'm supposed to have it completed in 4 weeks. It runs on 12 volts DC, using a car alternator to provide the extra amperage to keep from draining the battery. (It requires 14 to 16 amps, which, even with a heavy- duty, 25 amp charging system on the Kohler, would be more than the Kohler's system could reliably maintain, with the system's other requirements figured in.)
The one I'm building for this customer is a 27 Kohler / 4005 Tuthill combination, with a Cat 290 pump and continuous pump out. The burner can deliver up to 400,000 BTU, but being tuned down to 250,000, which will give well into the mid- 200's at 2 GPM (about 600 PSI through a #6 jet or equivalent).
I'll have one to show you in 3 to 4 weeks...
hogjowl
Idiot™
If I bring my van up to you, will you be installing my new rig, or have you hired one of Chavez's (down on his luck) relatives to help you yet?
I don't want no half-assed installation ya know.
I don't want no half-assed installation ya know.
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
2 helpers now, Mardy...
Both are, "family". My girlfriend's son and her daughter's husband...
I tried to do it all myself before. Found out the hard way that I can't wear all of the hats and do all of the jobs well at the same time.
System design isn't the only thing I've "redesigned"...
Both are, "family". My girlfriend's son and her daughter's husband...
I tried to do it all myself before. Found out the hard way that I can't wear all of the hats and do all of the jobs well at the same time.
System design isn't the only thing I've "redesigned"...
hogjowl
Idiot™
Do they have all their teef?
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
(Here we go... Ahem)
"From what I hear, PorkButt, even if they wuz missin' one or two, thay'd have more than some of yer immediate family..."
"From what I hear, PorkButt, even if they wuz missin' one or two, thay'd have more than some of yer immediate family..."
hogjowl
Idiot™
That's the whole point, DooDaddy. I ain't drivin all the way over their just to be looked down on by some fancy yankee.
Fon Johnson
Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2006
- Messages
- 1,066
admiralclean said:
Is Marty finally buying a real tm?? :shock:
hogjowl
Idiot™
Free demo Fon.
Free ...
Free ...
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Tell ya what, Mardy...
You buy one and I'll arrange to find a couple of day- labor wino's to do your install, so you won't feel outclassed... 8)
You buy one and I'll arrange to find a couple of day- labor wino's to do your install, so you won't feel outclassed... 8)
Captain Morgan
Supportive Member
building systems
Hi Duane,
I'm an idiot when it comes to all this mechanical talk ..but I'm learning bits here and there. I enjoy your posts because you describe things in kindergarten speak which helps, whether you knew it or not.
Your Elite system with the dual blowers? Does that give users the option of running one wand or two? Or just designed to give you superior vacuum sucking power?
I've read here guys complain that a lot of systems say they are "dual wand" machines but aren't, and they want a "true" dual wand system. Is that what this Elite system is addressing?
Just curious...Thanks,
Hi Duane,
I'm an idiot when it comes to all this mechanical talk ..but I'm learning bits here and there. I enjoy your posts because you describe things in kindergarten speak which helps, whether you knew it or not.
Your Elite system with the dual blowers? Does that give users the option of running one wand or two? Or just designed to give you superior vacuum sucking power?
I've read here guys complain that a lot of systems say they are "dual wand" machines but aren't, and they want a "true" dual wand system. Is that what this Elite system is addressing?
Just curious...Thanks,
hogjowl
Idiot™
Bill:
After a long night of UFO watching and ghost busting, Duane likes to sleep until noon, so I'll answer for him.
Yes.
After a long night of UFO watching and ghost busting, Duane likes to sleep until noon, so I'll answer for him.
Yes.
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Hey, Bill...
What Mardy said.
Duane
P.S. That's the idea behind the dual- blower approach... to run them side by side, so that they're independent from each other and run each wand truly separate.
At the same time, they will be able to be connected, so that they run in parallel, through a single wand, giving double the air flow as they do.
So, you'll have the best of both and your choice of either, by opening two valves on the recovery tank. (The tank will be two tanks in one, and opening the valves will connect them, allowing the entire capacity to be available to one wand.)
I've done a system like this before, a propane- fired one. And it worked very well. The trick of course, will be to do it with an exchanger system that generates enough heat for two wands. (I can do it in propane... or kero, BTW). And I feel confident that I can do that, because there is one more idea I have (sorry, Mardy...) in that area, that I'll need to file a patent on first.
What Mardy said.
Duane
P.S. That's the idea behind the dual- blower approach... to run them side by side, so that they're independent from each other and run each wand truly separate.
At the same time, they will be able to be connected, so that they run in parallel, through a single wand, giving double the air flow as they do.
So, you'll have the best of both and your choice of either, by opening two valves on the recovery tank. (The tank will be two tanks in one, and opening the valves will connect them, allowing the entire capacity to be available to one wand.)
I've done a system like this before, a propane- fired one. And it worked very well. The trick of course, will be to do it with an exchanger system that generates enough heat for two wands. (I can do it in propane... or kero, BTW). And I feel confident that I can do that, because there is one more idea I have (sorry, Mardy...) in that area, that I'll need to file a patent on first.
Captain Morgan
Supportive Member
upcoming systems
Thanks Marty
Thanks Duane
Sounds like a winner! Good luck with all your systems currently underway.
Thanks Marty
Thanks Duane
Sounds like a winner! Good luck with all your systems currently underway.
q
Jesus Christ,
I have been reading this bullshit for 25 years. Why don't you get off this fricken board, and build something rather than telling us what your gonna do. I don't want to sound rude or anything, BUT DAMN DUANE, this is getting old. A few months ago you were just gonna sell chemicals with distributor's and all that.............Now your building tm's again. It's always what your gonna do. How bout walking the talk?
Jesus Christ,
I have been reading this bullshit for 25 years. Why don't you get off this fricken board, and build something rather than telling us what your gonna do. I don't want to sound rude or anything, BUT DAMN DUANE, this is getting old. A few months ago you were just gonna sell chemicals with distributor's and all that.............Now your building tm's again. It's always what your gonna do. How bout walking the talk?
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Hey, Steve...
A while back, I had to adjust goals to suit the situation.
I got to thinking about it and decided to adjust the situation to suit my goals instead.
I look at it this way... It's free advertising, so, I'll take advantage of it.
Regarding "just build something"... If you're in the area any time soon and have a serious interest in the new systems, stop by. I assure you that I've been "building" all along the way.
If you actually checked the posts a bit deeper, you'd actually see pictures I've posted of the new systems.
... and more are on the way.
25 years...? Man, get a grip. The Internet hasn't been fully operational that long.
A while back, I had to adjust goals to suit the situation.
I got to thinking about it and decided to adjust the situation to suit my goals instead.
I look at it this way... It's free advertising, so, I'll take advantage of it.
Regarding "just build something"... If you're in the area any time soon and have a serious interest in the new systems, stop by. I assure you that I've been "building" all along the way.
If you actually checked the posts a bit deeper, you'd actually see pictures I've posted of the new systems.
... and more are on the way.
25 years...? Man, get a grip. The Internet hasn't been fully operational that long.
hogjowl
Idiot™
ROFLMAO!
Steve is always so subtle.
Steve is always so subtle.
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Hey, Steve...
Sounds good. I'm seriously looking forward to meeting you.
Here's a bit more about what makes the Nemesis so different:
The water tank itself is an exchanger... a shell and tube exchanger... controlled by an exhaust diverter. (In my opinion, there is no more direct and efficient to get blower exhaust into the water box... And no simpler way to control it...)
So, the system has 2 airflow diverters. One controls the motor exhaust and the other controls the blower (and "spent"... and "unspent" motor exhaust) exhaust.
The system is extremely simple and accessible... and every inch of the airway "conduit", from the motor itself, to the exchanger-tank, up to the exhaust silencer (Yes, it is a real silencer...), is insulated. (The silencer is last in line, because I don't want it to rob the available heat.)
So now you know, "The rest of the story.", so to speak...
I've put a lot of design time into it. And I will have pictures of it during assembly (I'm going to take my time putting these first ones together, to be sure that everything is as well thought out on the assembly itself as is the design...) very soon...
8)
Sounds good. I'm seriously looking forward to meeting you.
Here's a bit more about what makes the Nemesis so different:
The water tank itself is an exchanger... a shell and tube exchanger... controlled by an exhaust diverter. (In my opinion, there is no more direct and efficient to get blower exhaust into the water box... And no simpler way to control it...)
So, the system has 2 airflow diverters. One controls the motor exhaust and the other controls the blower (and "spent"... and "unspent" motor exhaust) exhaust.
The system is extremely simple and accessible... and every inch of the airway "conduit", from the motor itself, to the exchanger-tank, up to the exhaust silencer (Yes, it is a real silencer...), is insulated. (The silencer is last in line, because I don't want it to rob the available heat.)
So now you know, "The rest of the story.", so to speak...
I've put a lot of design time into it. And I will have pictures of it during assembly (I'm going to take my time putting these first ones together, to be sure that everything is as well thought out on the assembly itself as is the design...) very soon...
8)
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
As promised, here's a picture to give you an idea of just how different the Nemesis is from anything else on the market today.
Designing "stuff" like this, is why this system has taken so long...
Designing "stuff" like this, is why this system has taken so long...
Duane Oxley
Moon Unit
Okay...
The results of the first test of the Nemesis is pretty encouraging, to say the least. But before I give them to you, I want to explain how I arrived at them.
My way of stating temperature output for systems I make over the years has always been at a specific pressure / jet size and at the wand. (If you look back, you'll find that I'm the one who originally coined the "ATW" (at the wand) and ""ATM" (at the machine) terms and abbreviations.)
My position has always been that what the machine says is irrelevant. One reason is that there's always heat loss between the system and the wand... about 30 degrees, on average. Another is that placement of the temperature sensor can influence the temperature readout. (If you look at the national brands, you'll find one that tends to place their sensor, "suspiciously close" to the exhaust manifold for the motor exhaust, for instance)
So, with the above in mind, I've always quoted my systems capabilities in "ATW" figures... That worked fine for propane systems, when I could promise and deliver 230 degrees ATW on systems I built. Now, with the new exchangers, I see no need to change old habits. So, that's how I tested (and report now...) the systems I build, regardless of what heat method they use.
So, here's the result and how it was determined:
Pressure was set at my long- term standard of 600 PSI. Jet size was 06. Temperature gauge was a bi-metal thermometer, in- line, with the wand valve, at the end of the pressure hose. Hose length was 25 ft. in this case.
The wand valve was cycled at 6 second and 8 second intervals. 6 on / 6 off and 8 on / 8 off, just to get a basis.
185 degrees, ATW.
Now, one thing to add: The exhaust from the system is still hotter than I'm happy with. When I place my hand under it, I can hold it there for 30 seconds with no chance of a burn, but it's still pretty "hot". So, I'll be focusing on that. I'm pretty sure that I know the answer, too. I can't speak openly about what it is at this point, because it may have patent potential. But if I'm right on this, we'll know by Monday.
I see no reason to doubt that these systems will generate 200 degrees, measured at the wand.
That's the equivalent of 230 on a typical system, measured at the machine.
This system, by the way, had a 25 Kohler and a #4005 Tuthill blower as the heat sources. Lift was set at 5" Hg. during the test.
Duane
The results of the first test of the Nemesis is pretty encouraging, to say the least. But before I give them to you, I want to explain how I arrived at them.
My way of stating temperature output for systems I make over the years has always been at a specific pressure / jet size and at the wand. (If you look back, you'll find that I'm the one who originally coined the "ATW" (at the wand) and ""ATM" (at the machine) terms and abbreviations.)
My position has always been that what the machine says is irrelevant. One reason is that there's always heat loss between the system and the wand... about 30 degrees, on average. Another is that placement of the temperature sensor can influence the temperature readout. (If you look at the national brands, you'll find one that tends to place their sensor, "suspiciously close" to the exhaust manifold for the motor exhaust, for instance)
So, with the above in mind, I've always quoted my systems capabilities in "ATW" figures... That worked fine for propane systems, when I could promise and deliver 230 degrees ATW on systems I built. Now, with the new exchangers, I see no need to change old habits. So, that's how I tested (and report now...) the systems I build, regardless of what heat method they use.
So, here's the result and how it was determined:
Pressure was set at my long- term standard of 600 PSI. Jet size was 06. Temperature gauge was a bi-metal thermometer, in- line, with the wand valve, at the end of the pressure hose. Hose length was 25 ft. in this case.
The wand valve was cycled at 6 second and 8 second intervals. 6 on / 6 off and 8 on / 8 off, just to get a basis.
185 degrees, ATW.
Now, one thing to add: The exhaust from the system is still hotter than I'm happy with. When I place my hand under it, I can hold it there for 30 seconds with no chance of a burn, but it's still pretty "hot". So, I'll be focusing on that. I'm pretty sure that I know the answer, too. I can't speak openly about what it is at this point, because it may have patent potential. But if I'm right on this, we'll know by Monday.
I see no reason to doubt that these systems will generate 200 degrees, measured at the wand.
That's the equivalent of 230 on a typical system, measured at the machine.
This system, by the way, had a 25 Kohler and a #4005 Tuthill blower as the heat sources. Lift was set at 5" Hg. during the test.
Duane
G
Guest
Guest
Wow!
Sounds impressive.
Sounds impressive.
Farenheit251
Member
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2006
- Messages
- 732
5 hg. Don't you need to put the engine under load to get a realistic heat number?
Ron Lippold
RIP
with all respect D who is running 6 flow
