Mikey P
Administrator
Clearly I did.
Angry Joe Monster
- Thread starter Mikey P
- Start date
Clearly I did.
jkowalski
Member
Plan B: Create open source licence and post your server and client code on Github.
Let you guys. Maintain it. Hahahahahahaha
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
So your goal was to have it ready for a show? With a feature or 2, but otherwise non functional?
PrimaDonna
Megatron
Maybe you weren't clear in explaining your goal from the get go. Mike wasn't the only one that interpreted it that way.
But I guess keeping it vague always gives you the ability to back pedal when you need to.
jkowalski
Member
The goal was early beta. Meaning that we had 25 of our current clients taking a peek and poking around and providing feedback. Also coinciding with a demonstrative product in all of our major feature sets. Otherwise completely not ready.
jkowalski
Member
As I've said publicly before. Upon reflection I got the public involved way too early in this process. I was actually trying something a little different. Out of my 20 years of development experience, more often than not the product is delivered that doesn't fit the current needs. That's the problem when you develop in a black box. I swung the pendulum. Too hard. From now on, I will be much more conservative about who I let into projects and when. But I still will encourage feedback from screenshots and videos because I believe in that process. If that muddies the waters for people who are impatient, I get it, but as long as I am not affecting your business directly, I'm not worried about it.
The other mistake I made was inviting people I respected as business owners over someone that could help and understand the process I was trying to accomplish. I needs it to be more voluntary (with screening) instead of me selecting people.
The other mistake I made was inviting people I respected as business owners over someone that could help and understand the process I was trying to accomplish. I needs it to be more voluntary (with screening) instead of me selecting people.
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jkowalski
Member
Backpedal huh. See there you go again with the implication. Let me ask you a question. Do you think it's reasonable to assume that we could have a full replacement of ServiceMonster 5, a product that has been in development for over 10 years and has more than two million lines of code, in six months? Do you think that that's a reasonable Target and goal?
When I try to explain the stages what I get is, "you're being vague".
jkowalski
Member
This is a good example of how something can get turned. I said develop in 6 months a replacement for servicemonster 5. But if you're paying attention, you know I've been working on the framework for years. How can that be? How can it be both six months and years?
Because products are built on top of Frameworks. But that's very difficult to communicate, when someone is just looking for a punchline.
PrimaDonna
Megatron
And if you met that goal, great! But it wasn't communicated that way to the general public. Had it been presented that way, you likely wouldn't be dealing with all this push back.
Its obvious that there was a miscommunication or that many people misinterpreted your message. Learn from that...be more specific in the future so there is no room for interpretation....or refrain from making announcements until it's ready for end users.
jkowalski
Member
Understood.
PrimaDonna
Megatron
I don't know what's reasonable. That's not my wheelhouse. What the "debate" is about is not what is reasonable for you to accomplish, but rather what is a reasonable expectation for your users to have based on what you have put out there, the way you said it....and how that message is received by the masses.
I am confused by how this has been in development for 10 years, but then is done in 6 months - because it's not my thing. If you needed more than 6 months to do it, no one has issue with that. They have issue with the fact that it has been 12-18 months since they thought it would be available, based on the hype and communications you put out, and it's still not. And, as soon as you realize you weren't going to meet your goal/target of 6 months, then it's your responsibility to communicate to everyone that you aren't, apologize and lay out what you are going to do in the mean time to ease their concerns. That part never happened. People (maybe wrongly or unfairly) felt like they were left hanging. That you moved on to your next social media project, and they had no idea what was going on with 6 and mobile and why. It "appeared", that they were left hanging as you began pursuing other things and not much was being said about or happening with SM.
Bottom line, there was failure to manage expectations. That is what this all boils down to. I know that is a very hard thing to do. People have different expectations. But as the leader of SM, you are in the position to set the expectations based on what YOU communicate. And then you have the duty to manage them if they change. Looking back on the past year or so, that is what I've seen as the missing part. It's only been the the past week or that I've seen you post that you dropped the ball on mobile and missed your target for 6. That info should have come out ahead of missing them when you knew you wouldn't meet them. Along with your anticipated plan once you realized. And it would have ok to say this is what we are shooting for since you missed it, but it too could change. If it does, I'll let you know as soon as I do and we will revisit the new plan. People are understanding. Your clients run businesses in which shit goes wrong all the time and not as planned. And they you regroup figure out the new plan and communicate it to their team. If that shit cans too....then you revisit again. But at least everyone knows and they aren't left hanging or wondering what's going on.
Do you remember the conversation we had about a year ago when I said you lose people with all the tech talk. That, I'm fairly on top of some 'tech talk" and you lose me at times too? I said that you need to speak in more layman's terms. Since there are various "platforms" that SM functions in (desktop, mobile and an app) that it gets confusing. Most carpet cleaner aren't techy people - and they don't want to be. They just want what will work and to know when they will have it. They don't understand the process (and many probably don't care) yet that's the language you were speaking in in your updates.
I'm not imply anything. It's perception....mine and many others based on how you've handled things and haven't managed expectations appropriately. Because you finally took ownership after the fact....but not with out being defensive and trying to explain all the whys after people were already frustrated. If you take ownership upfront, and initiate it vs. responding after being called out on it....then people don't perceive it as backpedaling.
Or if you just left it at "We messed up. I don't have an excuse, and even if I did, I know you all don't want to hear it at this point. So I can only humbly apologize and let you know what we are going to do moving forward, and how we plan to not let this happen again". That would have gone over much better. Not as good as nipping it in the bud, but better than what went down with Ty's post on CCP asking about the hype and then your defensive video.
jkowalski
Member
"Bottom line, there was failure to manage expectations"
100%
I'm learning everyday.
100%
I'm learning everyday.
Papa John
Lifetime Supportive Member
Joe-- you need to learn to be a politician in your answers.. never answer in a way that hold you accountable. Just say:
" the situation is fluid and on going, it too early to comment in this ever changing environment. We will release the info as it becomes verified by multiple source..
" the situation is fluid and on going, it too early to comment in this ever changing environment. We will release the info as it becomes verified by multiple source..
Desk Jockey
Member
If I were Joe I'd pull the plug for a day...just to show you I could. 
Ok so that's probably not good business...how about a few hours?
If you do it Joe I'd suggest some distance between this thread and the event.
Knock Meg's out first!
Ok so that's probably not good business...how about a few hours?
If you do it Joe I'd suggest some distance between this thread and the event.
Knock Meg's out first!
Papa John
Lifetime Supportive Member
What is aggravating is that you have a lot of non-programmers criticizing things and they fail to understand the limitations between mobile and desktop software capabilities.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
This was NOT a programming problem.
PrimaDonna
Megatron
He must have not not read my post....or Tom King's....or some of the others.
Joe, you're a good sport.
hogjowl
Idiot™
I'm flattered to even be mentioned in the same sentence as Saiger. Maybe I'll make a video explaining my gratitude.
Or were you talking about Joe?
Bob Pruitt
Member
Joe's or Damon's videos?
Marty tapped out. Had to go watch Matlock on the Hallmark channel.
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Joe, you are always welcome to talk to me about tech stuff..you wont lose me into it... I love talking about SDLC, its like a game to me. As for beta testing, ill do it anytime once i have big enough client to justify using it, or should I start now..? i too have to refrain from talking sciency or techy stuff to people that really dont understand or not give a crap about it, but its hard to refrain from the enthusiasm and excitment to talk about the products you help build. Be proud it!
smastio
Member
This is getting better than Spicers Press Conferences! Maybe you should remove the video portion like Spicer did and then just assign Pinky when you're busy just like Huckabee-Sanders!
I'm really having a hard time understanding the problem. I would get it if sm6 was rolled out and replaced 5 and was buggy but seeing as how 5 is still functioning and great I just don't see the big deal.
In fact it's kind of amusing looking back at how great everyone thought 5 was until they got to see what 6 was going to be capable of
In fact it's kind of amusing looking back at how great everyone thought 5 was until they got to see what 6 was going to be capable of
Mikey P
Administrator
I could care less about 6.
Just give me a working wysiwyg editor
Just give me a working wysiwyg editor
jkowalski
Member
You CAN use your own and paste it in.
Mikey P
Administrator
Now you tell me....
jkowalski
Member
Pound of Flesh. :-)
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