any opinion on a hoss?

[ruff]

In that regard, maybe the best way to do it will be to take the strongest proponents of each (Jim naturally should operate his 'uber' beloved Host) and have them operate their machine.
This way we'll hopefully get the best performance from each machine and draw our own conclusions.

 

[Mikey P]

I'll have to talk to John L, Cliff, Doyle and Bill about having Jim set up each unit to run at the same flow for the shoot out.

not sure thats gonna be possible to get exactly the same flow from all 4 untis

 

[ruff]

Does not make any sense.
Let each top notch operator perform at their choice of flow etc. They should know best, how to achieve optimal results. Preferably with same size blowers and about the same heat.
All should be using the same chemicals and let's see the results.

 

[John Olson]

So you want to run all three on every diffent type of machine with all the different tweaks you've made to them? I'm having trouble following you and what this shoot out actually is. Thought it was 3 machines 1 operator one Winner. If the machines have to be tweaked/modified to gain and advantaged in one way or another then it cant be a fair comparison.

 

[Jim Martin]

Does not make any sense.
Let each top notch operator perform at their choice of flow etc. They should know best, how to achieve optimal results. Preferably with same size blowers and about the same heat.
All should be using the same chemicals and let's see the results.

I'll run my ( as it was ridiculously put ).....'uber' beloved Host......and let Cu run the Trex....find a avid 360i and RX user and then set it up...just make everything else as equal as possible..............

 

[ruff]

I'll run my ( as it was ridiculously put ).....'uber' beloved Host......and let Cu run the Trex....find a avid 360i and RX user and then set it up...just make everything else as equal as possible..............

Sorry, Jim.
I meant "ridiculously 'Uber' beloved Hoss."

 

[John Olson]

It is turning into a Harry Hides test. What is the purpose and goal of the shoot out? If it is to compare the tools side by side then it must be out of the box 1 user 1 machine. If it is to show off pimped out Jim Martin re-creations then by all means go for it but you guys need to decide what it is your trying to do and call it what it is.

 

[Jim Martin]

John Olson" data-source="post: 4186544" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

So you want to run all three on every diffent type of machine with all the different tweaks you've made to them? I'm having trouble following you and what this shoot out actually is. Thought it was 3 machines 1 operator one Winner. If the machines have to be tweaked/modified to gain and advantaged in one way or another then it cant be a fair comparison.

maxing out the performance is more trying to understand how each one runs....in reality not all of them preform the same...I can't run my Hoss the same way I run the 360i....if I just grabbed both and ran them the same...then it would not be a fair contest....I am pretty sure that also stands true for the Trex......if all wands ran the same...we would not have so many to chose from....but they are set up different and each one is used a bit different to max out there performance......


as far as adjusting the flow....there is only one machine that you can do that with....all others has jets....you can't really adjust them with out effecting there spray pattern..........

 

[Jim Martin]

John Olson" data-source="post: 4186548" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

It is turning into a Harry Hides test. What is the purpose and goal of the shoot out? If it is to compare the tools side by side then it must be out of the box 1 user 1 machine. If it is to show off pimped out Jim Martin re-creations then by all means go for it but you guys need to decide what it is your trying to do and call it what it is.

kind of like this thread.....the poor man asked a simple question on a particular machine and it became a sales pitch and a train wreck.....and it's not about pimping anything..it about not having another Nicky back yard barn braw to prove a point that made no since when it was over......

these are just my suggestions....personally I could care a less what machine people like or use....because in the end...they are all going to be good rotaries no matter what the out come is....it's going to come down to which one is the best fit you........which is the way it should be in he first place...

 

[Goomer]

The unrealistic idea that one machine will be labeled "Winner" over the others is the fundamental problem here.

 

[Mikey P]

i think the main point of this is to have some real world soiled carpet in a motel/hotel setting where cleaners can try all 4 REX out to see what floats their boat.


If we take it unit in stock form and hook it up to the same TM and attempt to clean carpet that is soiled enough for all 4 to get a fair and equal demonstration then a conclusion of how fast it extracts and dries could be somewhat concluded.

Lots of ways to try and do this...

 

[Jimmy L]

ALL stock machines and multiple users who will place their winner on a piece of paper and placed into a pot.

Add up the ballots and you have a winner.

 

[Goomer]

Why not get some opinion cards made up where everyone who runs all 4 machines can anonymously rate the predetermined characteristics of each machine and possibly vote on the favorite aspects of each machine.
Maybe an unbiased panel of fifteen or twenty guys that can vote on a "Favorite" ..........NOT a "Winner".

 

[Mikey P]

good ideas


I recall the time Harv set up this big elaborate test at a Polish event where all sort of methods went head to head on identically soiled carpet chunks for a set amount of time.


When the Mytee with it's 25 foot hose won the contest, (based on soil weight removed from the test sample) the results were never announced for some strange and mysterious reasons...

 

[floorguy]

no.....not even close...how could any manufacture know how anyone runs there equipment...??.....the performance on my thermalwave is different then other people that run them.....distributors should spend more time and ask questions to the people that they sell them to and help them balance them to there machines....there would probably be less complaints across the board....ask yourself.....would you feel comfortable selling a high flow pimped out wand to a guy who uses a small portable....or would you try to talk him into buying one that is more suited for his equipment....even if it meant the one that fit him better was cheaper...??

The problem is you have ding dongs out there like ole Daniel...who runs that Everest at low a bunch of the time....

Stock is the only way to do it...both for the tools and the machine...because it is unrealistic to try and match the tool to the machine...that is an individual opinion....

just saying

 

[Jim Martin]

The problem is you have ding dongs out there like ole Daniel...who runs that Everest at low a bunch of the time....

Stock is the only way to do it...both for the tools and the machine...because it is unrealistic to try and match the tool to the machine...that is an individual opinion....

just saying

Totally agree...but he distributors can help them out to set them in the right direction....what people decide to to after that is there own problem....kinda like the book that came with my thermalwave....it told me what jets were the best for my machine so that I would not over wet and sacrifice my heat.... someone took the time and explained it.....

 

[floorguy]

yes but do you run the machine at those settings??

this is the dif between a o/o or a 2-3 truck setup who has techs who care and pay attention....

this is NOT to who they set their sales.....

ask Snow if he tweaks anything???

straight butler with straight 4-6 flow wands...

 

[dealtimeman]

Jim I understand what you Are saying, but I must say I would like the tools that I buy to be set up ready to use in the stock configuration out of the box. Now if you want to bump up flow or this or that is fine.


what I feel you are saying is that you have configure or set up your hosst before you use it.

I like the Rotovac 360i because it is ready to use out of the box. The 360 has streaked a couple of times but the boss also streaks.

FOR THE RECORD JOHN OLSEN WAS THE ONE WHO TOLD ME TO TRY THE HOSS OUT ALMOST A YEAR AGO.


Some of you are so dramatic we just clean carpets remember.

 

[John LaBarbera]

Why not get some opinion cards made up where everyone who runs all 4 machines can anonymously rate the predetermined characteristics of each machine and possibly vote on the favorite aspects of each machine.
Maybe an unbiased panel of fifteen or twenty guys that can vote on a "Favorite" ..........NOT a "Winner".

Why is it that guys from NY are always able to come up with the most logical ways of doing something.

I like the "favorite" idea. I think they should be new out of the box, factory sealed. Run them on the same TM and porty. Forget tweaking, that's simply a personal preference. If the rotary has to be tweaked, then leave it at home. It should be, maybe a point system, based on (1) features including but not limited to speed control versus no speed control, stock out of the box (2) ease of use/feel (3) price/value (bang for the buck), (4) quality of construction and appearance. Any who evaluate have to evaluate (run) all three or four rotaries. Also, if there are different types of carpet they have to run all the rotaries on all of the different types of carpet. I think the biggest thing to measure, and I'm not sure how to do this accurately, is to somehow measure the amount of moisture left behind in the carpet by each rotary. The cards are filled out and put in a box. Mikey delegates who ever he deems appropriate to tally the results.

In the end, I think if a rotary is being produced and sold, than they are all winners based on that fact alone. The PCC's have different likes, budgets, challenges and circumstances that are peculiar to them. Choices is what it all comes down to. I'm in favor of the shoot out as a touch stone to lay to rest some of the myths that some propagate here.

FYI, I heard HM is redesigning the RX for release this Spring. (rumor) but I can see that happening. Updating the design that's 30 years old is reasonable. They have done great with what they have and have set a bar for the rest of us who are building rotaries.

 

[John LaBarbera]

good ideas


I recall the time Harv set up this big elaborate test at a Polish event where all sort of methods went head to head on identically soiled carpet chunks for a set amount of time.


When the Mytee with it's 25 foot hose won the contest, (based on soil weight removed from the test sample) the results were never announced for some strange and mysterious reasons...

Dang, I hate when they do that!

 

[Jim Martin]

You seem all see to take the word tweaking and running with it way to far....not to surprised....I am not in any way saying rebuild them or even change them to work better..that is not fair......but I was saying that if you think for one second that your going to get the exact same performance out of each one it is not going to happen...so at least try to level the field as close as possible....

not like you can change the 360i any way...same with the Trex. It nothing but a 360i on steroids...so what could you change....just keep them all stock...un box each one...then have some one put a disk in the hoss to match what ever you are going to run them with...because that is the only one you can change/balance anyway........all I was trying to say is that IMO in all fairness....if I was let to do the test out I would need a Trex to run a bit to max it's performance...not rebuild the damn thing...just like all the other rotaries..find the best way to work it....

 

[John LaBarbera]

You seem all see to take the word tweaking and running with it way to far....not to surprised....I am not in any way saying rebuild them or even change them to work better..that is not fair......but I was saying that if you think for one second that your going to get the exact same performance out of each one it is not going to happen...so at least try to level the field as close as possible....

not like you can change the 360i any way...same with the Trex. It nothing but a 360i on steroids...so what could you change....just keep them all stock...un box each one...then have some one put a disk in the hoss to match what ever you are going to run them with...because that is the only one you can change/balance anyway........all I was trying to say is that IMO in all fairness....if I was let to do the test out I would need a Trex to run a bit to max it's performance...not rebuild the damn thing...just like all the other rotaries..find the best way to work it....

Can I ask you one question? What TM or Porty can you run a Hoss right out of the box, doing nothing to it except adjusting the handle to the operator? Mytee is good with that machine, whether it is a porty or a TM. My guese RV will be too. Now no tweaking is needed. You pick the vac source, hows that? OK two questions.

 

[Jim Martin]

Can I ask you one question? What TM or Porty can you run a Hoss right out of the box, doing nothing to it except adjusting the handle to the operator? Mytee is good with that machine, whether it is a porty or a TM. My guese RV will be too. Now no tweaking is needed. You pick the vac source, hows that? OK two questions.

the Hoss is not really built for a portable...but you can pick 3 different disk to fit different truck mounts......and that is a huge advantage for this machine...just like the 360i is not really a good fit for a high powered truck mount...not good stability so it sucks it down and has the potential to block the jets....same with the RDM....

IMO the vac source should be something in the middle...nothing really high powered...and I don't think a portable should even be in the question....there are more truck mounts out there the portables..

again...all these rotaries are good machines...it is not really going to come down to this one is better then that one...in reality...it is just going to be which one it the best fit for who........

 

[John LaBarbera]

BTW, this statement is not correct


"not like you can change the 360i any way...same with the Trex. It nothing but a 360i on steroids...so what could you change....just keep them all stock...un box each one...then have some one put a disk in the hoss to match what ever you are going to run them with...because that is the only one you can change/balance anyway"

I guess it hard to judge much from only a picture. There is nothing like having the unit in front of you, running it.

 

[Jim Martin]

BTW, this statement is not correct


"not like you can change the 360i any way...same with the Trex. It nothing but a 360i on steroids...so what could you change....just keep them all stock...un box each one...then have some one put a disk in the hoss to match what ever you are going to run them with...because that is the only one you can change/balance anyway"

I guess it hard to judge much from only a picture. There is nothing like having the unit in front of you, running it.

so what can you change and why would you change it out of the box......???

 

[John LaBarbera]

the Hoss is not really built for a portable...but you can pick 3 different disk to fit different truck mounts......and that is a huge advantage for this machine...just like the 360i is not really a good fit for a high powered truck mount...not good stability so it sucks it down and has the potential to block the jets....same with the RDM....

IMO the vac source should be something in the middle...nothing really high powered...and I don't think a portable should even be in the question....there are more truck mounts out there the portables..

again...all these rotaries are good machines...it is not really going to come down to this one is better then that one...in reality...it is just going to be which one it the best fit for who........

The Trex can run well on a good porty. It can also run on a Vortex. It's been done. So the Hoss is limited to a TM? OK which one do you suggest?

 

[Jim Martin]

The Trex can run well on a good porty. It can also run on a Vortex. It's been done. So the Hoss is limited to a TM? OK which one do you suggest?

how do I know ...I have no clue what is going to be there.....

and BTW.....the 360 I will run on a Vortex...as long as it is on carpet that is not real thick....are you telling me that the Trex with the same design that the 360i has will do better...

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I just want to see if ANY of these rotaries are a "must have" for our trucks.

I don't want a swirly mess that requires a lot of detailing and grooming.

 

[Mikey P]

Bill and Keith, how would you like to see the "shoot out" handled?

 

[John LaBarbera]

how do I know ...I have no clue what is going to be there.....

and BTW.....the 360 I will run on a Vortex...as long as it is on carpet that is not real thick....are you telling me that the Trex with the same design that the 360i has will do better...

You said a medium TM. Which one would you feel comfortable with the Hoss out of the box? And yes to your last question. It's not the same design.