Bashing VLM

[randy]

So, what about the crystallizing residue and these hi-tech polymers- has any long-term testing been done as to the effects they might have on occupants of a residence, or how they affect the air quality of a home? I bet not.... That's going to make a good topic for my next newsletter and if I was battling VLM for customers that is what I would focus on, along with the fact that you are leaving a breeding ground for all kinds of little nasties.[/quote]

Has any long-term testing been done as to the effects of the chemical compounds commonly found in the cleaning agents used in HWE ? Compounds like silicates, ethoxy-butanol or butyl cellosolve, and other glycol ethers.

Do you use products like Prochem's ultrapac, Powerburst, Harvards Grime release PRO or CTI's & Bridgepoint's equivalents ? Perhaps you should goggle a few of the above compounds & read the warnings on the Environmental Protection Agency website. Butyls have been heavily researched and the results aren't good.

That burning in your lungs /coughing when you are spraying Ultrapac is your body screaming STOP !

 

[everfresh1]

So, what about the crystallizing residue and these hi-tech polymers- has any long-term testing been done as to the effects they might have on occupants of a residence, or how they affect the air quality of a home? I bet not.... That's going to make a good topic for my next newsletter and if I was battling VLM for customers that is what I would focus on, along with the fact that you are leaving a breeding ground for all kinds of little nasties.

Has any long-term testing been done as to the effects of the chemical compounds commonly found in the cleaning agents used in HWE ? Compounds like silicates, ethoxy-butanol or butyl cellosolve, and other glycol ethers.

Do you use products like Prochem's ultrapac, Powerburst, Harvards Grime release PRO or CTI's & Bridgepoint's equivalents ? Perhaps you should goggle a few of the above compounds & read the warnings on the Environmental Protection Agency website. Butyls have been heavily researched and the results aren't good.

That burning in your lungs /coughing when you are spraying Ultrapac is your body screaming STOP !

I don't normally use products with those ingredients. But regardless, The amounts left in the carpet are minumal after steam cleaning, In comparison to dry Chemical cleaning.

 

[Ryan]

Ryan,

I am flattered...that you would mention me in the same sentance as Ken...
However we are NOT anywhere in the Ball Park as Ken...We currently are only operating
2 box trucks & 1 Van...Ken runs aprox.24 Butlers...

At one time we did run 6 vans...but we have downsized..for a various reasons...!
I appreciate your kind words and will always make myself available for any questions..


Ps..I started my business when I was 19 years old...

From something I read I thought you where still running 6 trucks. I can't remember where right now, but I remember you posting about sanitizing your wand and hoses between each job, then taking the customers to see you clean truck and explaining to them how most cleaners don't do this. I have used this ever since to take care of price shopers.. it usually works :!:

Your two trucks seem to do very well.. and I like the three tech idea for high end work. There are also other things to respect besides financial success.. what you did for Josh was really classy.

No worries - I understood. I was smiling as I wrote that last night! Arrogant little pricks usually become the best businessmen. The fact that you are hungry for knowledge will serve you well. Seriously, find a mentor (NO - I am not offering) and learn from him.Preferably one that has achieved a level of success far greater than you can ever dream to achieve. Be humble and listen. Your age will be your biggest challenge as you attempt to grow a multi-truck operation. I started mine at 22 - fresh out of school - and had a heck of a time with all the "I have shoes older than you" garbage. A mentor will help you overcome this.

Yeah the garbage like that really PISSES me off. I have no problem with guys like you, Ken, Harper, Mikey.. hell almost any of you guys could talk down to me and it wouldn't bother me. What bothers is meeting guys at a distributor who don't know there are different size jets, or even what blower size their machine has on it (true story) talk down too me.

They go on to tell me how they have been doing this for 20 years... then I ask how many trucks they are running... umm well one... how many employees?... umm well its just me.... and how much do you gross?....umm well shut up kid!

I sorta have a mentor.. a he has a medium size chain of pizza resturants and knows a lot about business.. grew up close to where I live and started out with nothing! (kinda like broke dick me lol) Not the same business but a lot of the same princapals still apply.



John;

How long does it take to take you to train a tech to become proficent at your flavor of VLM? How long to become an "expert"?

For HWE I would say (correct me if I'm wrong here guys) a good tech can be trained in a month or two and an expert (one you would trust to do stains, urine, wool, and fine upholstery) would be made in 2 years or much less if he was a quick learner.

Ken Snow;

How long does it take your company to train a good tech?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

A lot of these boys need the humbling experience of having an OP machine follow their best TM effort.

There's a reason a lot of dedicated HWE veterans carry VLM tools on their trucks.

I'm not a VLM cleaner or an HWE cleaner. I'm a CARPET cleaner. Whatever it takes.

Thanks,
Lee

 

[Johnny]

A lot of these boys need the humbling experience of having an OP machine follow their best TM effort.

There's a reason a lot of dedicated HWE veterans carry VLM tools on their trucks.

I'm not a VLM cleaner or an HWE cleaner. I'm a CARPET cleaner. Whatever it takes.

Thanks,
Lee

Word.

 

[Wayne Miller]

Nicely said, Lee.

 

[rhino1]

So, what about the crystallizing residue and these hi-tech polymers- has any long-term testing been done as to the effects they might have on occupants of a residence, or how they affect the air quality of a home? I bet not.... That's going to make a good topic for my next newsletter and if I was battling VLM for customers that is what I would focus on, along with the fact that you are leaving a breeding ground for all kinds of little nasties.

Has any long-term testing been done as to the effects of the chemical compounds commonly found in the cleaning agents used in HWE ? Compounds like silicates, ethoxy-butanol or butyl cellosolve, and other glycol ethers.

Do you use products like Prochem's ultrapac, Powerburst, Harvards Grime release PRO or CTI's & Bridgepoint's equivalents ? Perhaps you should goggle a few of the above compounds & read the warnings on the Environmental Protection Agency website. Butyls have been heavily researched and the results aren't good.

That burning in your lungs /coughing when you are spraying Ultrapac is your body screaming STOP ! [/quote]

I don't use anything you have mentioned here. If you can't grow it, we don't use it, with the exception of an emulsifier.

Certainly some compounds used in HWE I wouldn't drink, but the danger in those is mostly from long-term exposure to the operator. These are rinsed from the carpet and pose no risk to the homeowner. Again, I don't use anything you have listed, and the rinse I use is harmless.

Again, I ask you if there has been any long-term testing on what you are doing to little Johnny's lungs when you pollute his home with your magic pixie dust?

Not to harp on the dreaded dust mite, but what do you do to remove that or any other allergen from the carpet? What about the homeowner who has kids with allergies/asthma and thinks that getting their carpets cleaned by you will help?

Do you kindly explain to them that you can't do anything for them, or switch to HWE?

 

[John G.]

Not to harp on the dreaded dust mite, but what do you do to remove that or any other allergen from the carpet? What about the homeowner who has kids with allergies/asthma and thinks that getting their carpets cleaned by you will help?

Our green cleaning line kills them little buggers, actually turns their legs to jelly and they suffocate.

WE use mainly green or green with a polymer.

We don't turn away jobs and in 36 years have had ALL happy customers.
So, I still don't get what people worry about, plus virtually all of my customers
were previous HWE users so the argument to me is moot.

I make cheerleaders and they pay me, that settles it for me.

 

[Ron Werner]

I had a padder follow my work once. Lady moved into a rental I had just cleaned. After moving in she ran her "Rainbow" vacuum and it got dirty so she complained the carpet had not been cleaned. She called in a local VLM guy, who tested an area and then told the gal the carpet WAS clean.

I'd like a VLM guy to follow me on some jobs. I would like to see them clean some place and then I would like to follow them. If they aren't above average, I'll out clean 'em every day. I'm running 15 flow at 5-600psi and the you can feel dampness on the carpet but you can't get your hand wet. And as for vacuuming, well, you all know what my opinion is there. Just spent 2 1/2 hours vacuuming 662sf of trashed berber in a trailer. I really would have liked to see VLM clean that, or to follow my cleaning.

 

[John G.]

She called in a local VLM guy, who tested an area and then told the gal the carpet WAS clean.

VLM maybe, a padder, NO WAY!

 

[KevinL]

Hey Wayne, just because our pumps can put out 3, 4 or 5 gallons per minute it doesn't mean that's how much we're using. If you clean with your trigger on constant, I would have to say you're doing it wrong.

 

[rhino1]

Not to harp on the dreaded dust mite, but what do you do to remove that or any other allergen from the carpet? What about the homeowner who has kids with allergies/asthma and thinks that getting their carpets cleaned by you will help?

Our green cleaning line kills them little buggers, actually turns their legs to jelly and they suffocate.

OK, so then you leave their little dead bodies and feces behind forever. Yummy...

The fact that some choose to base their business on a different philosophy just offers an opportunity to prove the merits of each system. In the end, John is right, it is the consumer who decides what is better for them. VLM can scare the customer with "don't let your carpets get wet" and we can fire back with "Don't let a buffer-toting hack kill your family."

Wayne, you got a postcard for that?

 

[Wayne Miller]

Agreed, Kevin, but a 3 second burst at 3 GPM is still a 3 GPM, 3 second burst. Duration doesn't change rate of flow. What you're talking about is the amount used per hour and the closest measure for that is what's sitting in the waste tank.

lol Chris. The interesting thing about carpet cleaning is there are no objective measures for "clean." The closest thing I've seen says rug doctor outperforms an AeroTech. You buy that?

We can make any claim we want and never have to prove it. Clean is an an opinion based on observation. An assumption. It "looks" clean, therefore it is. How do we get away with that? Maybe because for a lot of folks it ain't all that super critical after all. Maybe because for a lot of people, like most cleaning, what it gets down to is appearance. Maybe it's because people aren't dropping dead from dirty carpet.

Did you know a study found as many as 5,000 bacteria, including Escherichia coli, Klebsiella pneumonia, and Serratiaficaria, clinging to a single square inch of footwear, 100 times more than can be found on a similar-sized area of a toilet seat? And, where do shoe bottoms spend most of their time? In contact with the floor. Imagine what comes out of the litter box and in from the back yard on furry little paws. Common sense says we can make it "cleaner" but we can't keep it "cleaner" for long.

As far as dust mites are concerned, you can't stop with the carpet. What about the bedding, the upholstery, the draperies, the air space? What about Anti-Allergen? It's doubtful cleaning alone could ever hope to make an appreciable difference.

 

[Ron Werner]

She called in a local VLM guy, who tested an area and then told the gal the carpet WAS clean.

VLM maybe, a padder, NO WAY!

What other method would have been able to tell her? I'm sure you can tell if a carpet is clean or not, or are the ALL soiled enough that every pad you put on the floor comes up black?

HOST? Not.