Can a TM be built simple and still practical?

Scott Rogers

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
1,033
Open, clean and uncluttered is better then panels. Being able to easily inspect parts and hoses daily replace parts easily and great access for service in a uncluttered attractive package.

That is a fine looking machine the way it is Duane!!
 

Larry Cobb

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
5,795
Location
Dallas, Texas USA
Name
Larry Cobb
We have always designed open-access TM's.

We like to keep the engine & components running ~20° cooler by eliminating the enclosure.

The fewer controls and least amount of shut-down wiring is what we are striving to build.

Components should be the most durable, so we have been adding more stainless to eliminate eventual rusting and corrosion.

I also feel that the operator should be able to understand the flow of vacuum and water, without referring to a 200 page operating manual.

Lately, we have been designing TMs for multi-surface cleaning. That requires larger HXs, higher pressure pumps, and new engines with more HP.

Ultimately, a machine should last as long as the owner chooses to continue operating (assuming normal component replacement).

Larry Cobb
 

Duane Oxley

Moon Unit
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,379
Location
Smyrna, GA.
Name
Duane Oxley
I also feel that the operator should be able to understand the flow of vacuum and water, without referring to a 200 page operating manual.

Amen... 8)
 
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
18,835
Location
Benton KY USA
Name
Lee Stockwell
We re-framed one of our EZ's in a simple stainless design with a slide-plate for the motor several years back. Jason's van was too tight for the then 42" wide frame Nick used. Still have the little stainless frame, used on a pressure washer now.

Nick's 2001 design used 67 feet of heavy square tubing...yet board "experts" who'd never seen one said it was flimsy. Overkill perhaps, but very durable. Like an ugly girlfriend. However they paid for themselves over and over again.
 
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
2,242
Curt Johnson said:
I will say though, the Judson TM was very very impressive. After visiting with Les at Connections I'm sure he's listened to cleaners needs and adapted.


Thanks Curt, for your comments about me. You are absolutely right, you will probably never meet anyone who cares more about carpet cleaner's more than me.

Seeing that the post is about simple design truck mounts, and that the post that Brian Luddy put in the clean room with photographs of the unit that you are talking about has been moved. I'm now going to post some pictures of the unit that you are talking about that was at MikeFest.


PictureorVideo204-1.jpg


PictureorVideo207-1.jpg


PictureorVideo210-1.jpg


I'm also going to post some picture's of the Judson TNT, that has to be the world's most simplest designed truck mount. The TNT stated production in late 1973 and is still in production today, this makes it the oldest machine still in production.
We have hundreds of TNT's still running after 34 years. I guess what makes the TNT last so long is that it's all stainless steel, has the most common parts and is the easiest to repair.


Picture011.jpg


Picture017new.jpg


DCP015502222.jpg


1e0d2020200021.jpg


Picture096E.jpg
 

Blue Monarch

Supportive Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
2,935
Location
Lincoln, NE
Name
Dirk Wingrove
Les, I got a feeling you're gonna be selling a lot of these. What type of chemical injection system does it use?
 

Duane Oxley

Moon Unit
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,379
Location
Smyrna, GA.
Name
Duane Oxley
Personally, I've always taken pains to make the systems as small as possible, without clutter. This system, for instance, a "Predator 36", has a footprint that's only 20" wide and 62 inches long, including the recovery tank.

Predator_36_Large.jpg



This one's a bit rough. The background wasn't cut away. But you can see that it's even smaller... It's just 57" long. And it has "no" recovery tank. The "CP" stands for "continuous pump out". So, it simply pumps out (at 50 GPM) continuously. Great for floods... or large jobs, in addition to standard ones...

This is an older style frame. These systems are built on the open frame design, that allows easy access to everything underneath and has the motor slide mount...


DSCN1047.jpg


These days, with gasoline prices at such a high rate, I feel more than ever that the "CP" systems like Predator CP's and Predator Unleashed! make a lot of sense.

That's why the "Xcel" systems will carry on the "CP tradition", so to speak, but in the form of heat exchange technology.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Jay, to answer your question about why I started this thread is quite simple. Re-read my original question. Where else could I ask a question like that and in one day get Nick N, Duane O, Larry C, and Les J all answer. Pretty damn impressive.

I asked because we all see some pretty sh*tty designs out there. Seeing the Judson had EVERYONE at MF this weekend asking what I asked on this board. I have no ulterior motive and nothing to sell just like you.

I started with a Chemtex Panther, I've had a Vortex, and now I have a Bluewave. As pretty much everyone says simpler is easier...to a point. I don't have the knowledge or the time in the day to spend wrenching my own machine. I leave that to the experts!
 

RichardnTn

Member
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
447
Larry, I should have also included your machine in the category of simple and practical... an oversight on my behalf.... I have drooled over the picture of the 538 more than once....I wouldn't hesitate to buy from any of the 3 gentlemen that I have mentioned....Richard R

Too, If I were going to buy from one of the larger companys, I would make the purchase from Jim Pemberton... Even if I had problems, Jim Bane will take care of you......(Jim, please pay him more than $8.50 an hour)
Richard R
 

Fon Johnson

Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
1,066
I own one of Duane's older machines. I don't even know for sure how old it is. I think maybe 12 years old? I have had to replace the pump belt twice. I think it took 5 or 10 minutes the other day. The clutch went out and a local company replaced it for me. My old machine is not really pretty anymore, but it is solid and reliable. Add to that the fact I can work on it and it is everything I need. My next tm will be one of Duane's. If that were not available, I'm pretty sure I would pick a Judson.

.
 

Jay D

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
1,319
Location
DFW, Texas
Name
Jay D
Curt, best of luck finding what you want in a machine. I enjoy bolting one together, that is all. It does not mean everyone likes that. A simple design that is well laid out and easy to service is the way to go. Today I meet another cleaner that was next door cleaning. He and his girlfriend work together on all jobs. Nice dodge sprinter with a wrap. Nice littlle operation. He had a truckmount I had never seen in person a 23 briggs with a 45 blower that was made I believe by 5 star manufactering. Nice, clean simple machine. He had over 900 hrs on it and he was so happy with it. My point is there are plenty of simple type truckmounts out there you sometimes just need to research, research, research. Don't take the word of anyone that does'nt run that particular truckmount everyday and is'nt willing to tell you the good and the bad. My machine has had some issues and I have been able to resolve them when I needed too. It is not like any of the others mentioned here and I have not tryed to compare it to anything like a judson, cobb unit or one of duanes units. It is what it is. It simple, works everyday and when it does'nt I fix it. If you need a backup buy feehans 405 it looks like you could eat off it. Man nice original machine.
 

Bob Savage

Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2006
Messages
1,288
Location
Dayton, Ohio
Name
Bob Savage
Richard in Tennessee,

Reading your post about having to light your LP heater once in the AM and then it's OK all day, are you saying that you drive around all day with the LP pilot light ON?

Just curious.
 

Tahoesteve

Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
150
Questions for Leslie and/or Larry:

On the hypro pump, 3rd pic down from top, it is plumbed using all four (2 inflow and 2 outflow) connections but in the 5th pic down 1 inflow and 1 outflow are capped off. Why is that?

On the advertising flyer above is says the recommended RPMs for that 18hp Vanguard is 2900. I have a 21hp and I was told never to go over 1700 RPMs. I know if I run higher I will get more heat and better suction. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Steve
 

The Preacher

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Messages
3,401
Bob, i do the same. i don't ride around with the windows up sucking the exhaust if thats a concern of those here!!
 

Duane Oxley

Moon Unit
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
2,379
Location
Smyrna, GA.
Name
Duane Oxley
For the record...

Several years ago, I focused on making the heaters as safe as reasonably possible. In the case of Danny's and Richard's systems, for example, the areas underneath and on the sides of the heater are enclosed so that no flammable material can get to them.

Underneath, there is a layer of sheet metal, about 8" below the burner (which is about 11" above the floor level), that covers the entire bottom and is itself located about 3" off of the floor.

On all 4 sides, there are slots to allow the heater to breathe (which promotes cleaner burning), that are larger than necessary (about 2" tall by 16" long, each, for the front and rear, 4" tall by 16" long for the sides) and covered by expanded metal.

DSCN0826.jpg


The newer systems have even more in the way of safety built in. The burner ring is 15" from the floor and the area around and underneath is covered by expanded metal. And the gas valve is suspended just above floor level as well.
 

bob vawter

Grassy Knoller
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
43,721
Location
La La Land
Name
bob vawter
All i'm saying is that....whenever all the components of a BOMB are in the same general proximity....the chances are, if givin' enough time....

they will blow up....100%!

WOW...i guess TODAY is my piss everbody off day....HUH?
 

mwall2230

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2007
Messages
493
Location
Tampa
Name
Mike Wallace
Check out his website, he custom makes some cool stuff. He said his machine uses less gas than genesis 59, because it runs at much lower rpm. He also said you can buy all replacement parts for the engine at your local auto parts store. The Big Daddy is alittle smaller than the genesis 59 .http://www.hotheatexchangers.com/TM.html
 

steve g

Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2006
Messages
2,316
Location
herriman, UT
Name
steve garrett
I think those direct couplers suck!!! what in the hell is wrong with good ole fashion belts, I am at almost 2k hours on my second set of belts, on my "overly complicated" prochem machine, the first set of belts where changed, for the hell of it and could have gone much longer,maybe even till now, they are still hanging in the garage.

one of the better machines, was what I call a custom Kelly mount, it was made from an old petersen vortex that the people just got tired of messing with, he took a nissan motor and bolted it to his custom square tube frame, then used about a 3ft long shaft that had universal bearings on it, this made it possible to add a pulley pretty much anywhere on the shaft, then he used a one wire alternator from a '76 monte carlo, ie cheap and replaceable at any parts store. mounted the bigass blower and pump, hooked it all up, it was one brute of a machine, come to think of it, it was a slide in with the same power as a vortex, can you imagine that?? yeah I can say that because it was made with the main parts from a vortex
 

Kevin B

Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2006
Messages
1,457
Location
Coeur D Alene ID
Name
Kevin Bunce
cu said:
all i know curt . after talking to ol man judson for most of last week im sure he knows more then just bout all the big tm makers put together
he just makes a tm that goes to work every day all day to make you money

the man just wants a simple tm that if it does break you can fix in 10mins

im sure daune will follow in the same footsteps and make a very user friendly unit that will out perform units costing 10 or 15k more

anyone who says a truckmount can be fixed in 10 minutes is lying. Sure, if its a belt. It should be a simple after work fix.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom