Cat Pump Question

[BLewis]

Ok, we had a new water softner system installed today. I was kinda in a rush and filled the V with fresh softened water and took off to do a small job for a regular client at one of his clients houses. When I started to pre-spray I was getting low to no water pressure from the hydro force. Went to check to make sure I hadn't had a hose burst to find the pump/entire unit pulsating. So shut pump off and decided to remove tank filter before pump and it was completely clogged with (what I later found to be resin) I suppose from the first back wash. Did manage to make it through that first job and went back to shop to see if I could flush the rest of the crap out. Checked filter again and it was completely full again of the resin (yellow grainually crap) so I decided I would take the hose female end off and just let the line free flow until all the crap was rinsed out. I can't get the pump to prime now. I am getting free running water from the hose (slightly) and I did take opposite line off on the head of the pump and I am definately getting plenty of water to pump. My guess is that this resin crap has stopped up the pistons. So I suppose Sat I will remove the head and go ahead and replace the seals etc. Any other suggestions for trying to flush this stuff out before removing the head. Also completely drained fresh tank and refilled.

Wife came out while I was working on truck and all the johns in the house weren't working, all flushers full of the resin crap as well as everything else in the house it seems. Never had this problem when we had water softner installed previously. So did the installer just fook up the job and didn't flush the system out like he should have?

Anyhow, any suggestive tips on removing cat pump head (this will be my first go at it) I will do the search funtion before Saturday cuz I know there has been stuff on this before.

 

[Jim Martin]

Your lines are backwards on the softener..there is a in and a out..I just went threw the same damn thing...what a pain to get it all cleared out...

 

[Jim Martin]

this stuff is a bitch to clear out....

and it is small enough to get past the filters...

you are going to have to flush the hell out of everything....check your un-loader....and when you are sure you have it all out...keep checking your filters for a few days....
as far as your pump....you are going to have to take it all apart and clean the entire thing out....to be honest with you...I ended up replacing mine..this stuff is so fine.....it goes every where......

 

[John Olson]

Did you install it or have it installed? I would be fixing it and whopping someone's ass after you left if my guys couldn't figure out what in and out meant...sorry billy and Jim that really sucks

 

[ACE]

yikes

 

[Jim Martin]

Take the water supply line off the softener.....and hook it back up the way it was..so that you have fresh clean water supply to the cat pump.....take the outlet side of the pump hose off and see if you can find one that is long enough to go down into a clean white 5 gallon pail...turn it on and see if you can pump it clean...it is worth a try before you tear it all apart....

if you have to take it apart..there is 8 hex head bolts..take them out and slide the head off...pull check valves flush everything out...probably should flush out the pulsation damper also....check the seals and plungers and make sure all of that is clean...put everything back together..when you put the 8 bolts back in..finger tighten all 8...then start in the center and work your way outward and snug them all up...then go back to center and work your way out again and tighten them all evenly....that is the best way to do it so it does not warp....

 

[BLewis]

Hey John,
No I let the professionals do it! Guy had a Culligan logo on his truck so I would think it is hooked up correctly however, the slime looks just like those in Jim's pics. Looked at unit and there is no "in" or "out" however looking at the manual he left behind from what I can see, it is backward. I was able to get the house fixtures working last night (4 hours) all but one and I'm going to have to take it off the laboratory to clean. Jim I just bypassed the watersoftner after reading your post. Did you have yours installed by a company and if so did they cover the replacement cost for your new water pump?

I took some pictures of how it is installed now so that I will know when they come back out today, if it was incorrect or not.

 

[BLewis]

Called company up this morning and guy told me on the phone from what I discribed it indeed had been plummed in reverse. Guy came and confirmed that he fooked up and took unit to recharge the resin and I told him I wouldn't have time to try to flush out the cat pump or take it apart until this weekend. He said "it shouldn't damage it" and I replied since it was the first thing that ran I felt most of the resin had gone into that fresh water tank and that I had emptied 3 filters full of the crap so that I was certained that it was in the head of the pump.

 

[Jim Martin]

Trust me....it is in there...

 

[Mikey P]

Damn Billy, everything happens to you.

 

[BLewis]

Naw Mike,y I'm just stupid enough to share even the dumb stuff I do sometimes. And Jim had the excitement of the water softner thing before me he just leads a more exciting life than I do and didn't feel the need to share it with everyone. lol

 

[AshleyMckendree]

I feel responsible since I'm the one who referred you to those guys. They installed the one at my house and I've had zero issues, including the portable unit in my van.

If its the guy who I'm thinking that installed it, he just got back from his HoneyMoon... Maybe it was one hell of a wedding night 0_o



....

 

[bob vawter]

an' jus think...
your first little job hasn't even called you back........yet!

 

[BLewis]

Bob, take your meds.

Ashley, I do hold you responsible that's why your gonna bring yourself over here Saturday and help me take the cat pump apart! I used these guys before with no problem, and your right maybe that guy got used to stickin it in the wrong hole while on his honeymoon. lol

 

[AshleyMckendree]

Holy crap Billy, you just made me spew coffee out of my nose!


....

 

[BLewis]

I spent 3 hours today taking the head off cat pump and took the unloader apart and flushed all out, also replaced some seals in cat pump while I had it out. Still no prime, no pressure, no shit. Just lots of Gold Dust Resin Crap!

 

[Jim Martin]

Put a ...T...in the line....I am not at home right now to get you a picture...but they look like the type that you use to hook up to your heater hose on you car to back flush the system....you hook it in line and then take off the cap and hook up a garden hose to it and it will instantly prime the system....personally every unit that has a cat pump should have one of these in line some where....you don't want it running to dry while it is trying to prime...

I will find a picture when I get home later if you don't know what I am talking about.....

 

[BLewis]

I would appreciate it Jim. I think I miss worded my statement, I am getting water to the pump or at least it is coming out the vent line opposite where the supply line comes in at a good flow. I have been thinking about it every since I quit working on it and I am wondering if I have a stoppage in some other line that will not let it bypass? However under pressure I can't see why it wouldn't push the stuff on through. Trying to post a pic of what I got out of the filer. But, I'm up to trying anything at this point before I start the harder battle of them paying for a replacement pump or whatever.

This was the resin that I got from cleaning out the filter on one clean-out. This was shot up close it is about 6x6 inches actual size

 

[Jim Martin]

You are going to have to take apart and clear every line...fitting..... filter...you name it from the fresh tank all the way to the quick connect in the end of the soluation line...start your up hill battle with them replacing your pump now....as much as I hate to tell you this....you are going to have to do it sooner or later...and later may be to late....those little beads are like little grains of sand..and are not to forgiving ......it is going to take a while to finally clear them out....if you can manage to get it running good...try not to put the new pump on it until you are damn sure that you have cleared them out...or you are going to be back to square one again...you might want to think about getting a really fine mesh filter and install it before the pump....that's what I have and even though some of these little beads find there way threw....it will catch a lot...put a shut off valve before the filter so you don't flood you truck every time you check it....because you will be checking it twice a day for awhile....

 

[jcooper]

Holy crap, that's in my water softener? That crap can't be good. What does that resin crap do?

 

[Jim Martin]

From google....

water softener beads, or resin beads, after being charged with sodium, exchange the sodium with calcium from the water. When the bead has exchanged all its sodium and is full of calcium, it needs to be “charged” with sodium again. This restores the bead so it can again exchange calcium with sodium. By taking the calcium out and putting sodium into the water, it turns the water from being hard (calcium) to soft (sodium).


Water softener beads are generally housed in a long cylinder that is attached to your water softener. Often in smaller softener units it can be found in different shapes. Inside the cylinder the beads are stored in a membrane to keep them contained.


Water softener beads generally last about 10-15 years. However, they can wear out prematurely. Iron in water and organic coatings that get on the beads can often cause the lifespan of a softener bead to shorten. If you find the effectiveness of the water softener decreasing then you would want to have your unit serviced to make sure all is well.

 

[Jim Martin]

put it in line......before cat pump.....take off cap...hook up garden hose...turn on...instant prime....take off hose and put cap back on.....your set......

 

[BLewis]

Thanks Jim for the pic. This will solve one issue I had putting the water supply line back together yesterday. It was not supplied with a swivelfitting on one end so I couldn't manage to get it back to factory tight, now I can splice this T in and tightnen her up like she should be. Today I start the total dissection of the water system on the V. First I am going to remove the tank lid and see just how much of this crap is in the bottom of the tank and suction it out with my other truck.

 

[Jim Martin]

Thanks Jim for the pic. This will solve one issue I had putting the water supply line back together yesterday. It was not supplied with a swivelfitting on one end so I couldn't manage to get it back to factory tight, now I can splice this T in and tightnen her up like she should be. Today I start the total dissection of the water system on the V. First I am going to remove the tank lid and see just how much of this crap is in the bottom of the tank and suction it out with my other truck.

does your tank have a dump valve on it.....if so...it may be better to try to park it so it is slightly tipped towards the valve and take a hose and rinse down all the sides and completely flush the entire thing out.....don't think you are going to get it all completely out with the other truck....( not to mention I would not want that crap any where near my other truck ).....

 

[BLewis]

Thanks Jim, I have flush the entire tank out twice already, and yes I thought about "infecting" the other truck so I thought that I would use nylon stocking and put in the lines somehow to build filter to catch as much as possible so it wouldn't get into waste tank of other truck. After I remove the lid I will decide which way to go and might just use a shop vac instead to suck out the pixie dust.

 

[BLewis]

Ok here goes, Jim followed your advise and instructions. Worked from 11am til 7 pm on removing the gold dust resin. I'll post some pics so everyone can see how bad this crap was. Keep in mind that I filled and emptied fresh tank 2 times before taking the lid off. Jim had to homemake my t but was able to get it installed, after removing all qc from all hoses and all fittings I did have running water out all tree lines when hooked up to garden hose. However no luck with any water pressure from the pump with and without the water hose attached, so I must at this point say the pump is trash. Documented all pictures as I went along for later use
if needed.
Here goes

Jim had to make your T from parts
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz326/wizardcarpet/photo-16.jpg[/IMG
[IMG]http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz326/wizardcarpet/photo-19.jpg[/IMG
Followed your suggestion on elevated bank, my front yard, I think the neighbors think I had lost it!
[ATTACH=full]54845[/ATTACH]
Tank after flushing on bank
[ATTACH=full]54846[/ATTACH]
Crap everywhere

More to follow

 

[BLewis]

MOre pictures of the gold dust
http://i840.photobucket.com/albums/zz326/wizardcarpet/photo-20.jpg[/IMG
The reason I nick named it gold dust, it's about 1/4 in deep on the entire tank with about 12 inches of water in tank
[ATTACH=full]54847[/ATTACH]
This may be a repeat, resin under heater tubes

[ATTACH=full]54848[/ATTACH]
This is what I woke up to this morning, from where I filled and drained tank 2 times. I actually couldn't see this when it was draining.

[ATTACH=full]54849[/ATTACH]
A shot of running water with pressure from the hose only. All three lines are cleared

[ATTACH=full]54850[/ATTACH]
This is why I nick named it Gold Dust




Enough, I think I'm going to go puke

 

[Jim Martin]

I puked for you.....looks like it emptied the entire thing into your tank....from this point...you just have to make sure that you clean everything out as much as possible.....then I would clean it all again...before you put the new pump on...

 

[dealtimeman]

Any damage to your pump?

 

[BLewis]

Michael,
I didn't see any real damage from what I could see from the heads but it was full the the pixie dust. But, I don't really know what to look for either. I also didn't want to tear it down to much my main goal was to flush it out real good and replace the seals that I came across. Talked with the company today, they ask how much the pump would be and I told them that I would have to call and get prices but we were probably looking at around 1,400 for the pump plus cost of getting it installed.