CFM test for Atlanta

[GeneMiller]

How high can you go Gene? The silly flow calculator I've been playing with suggests that a 100' 1/4" hose with a #12 jet on the end will flow a touch more than 4 gpm if you can pump out 1700 psi while flowing (as long as you don't have any super-restrictive fittings). It would be interesting to test in real life....


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I changed my fittings once to open style like on pressure washers and nothing changed. I expected it to jump but it didn't. I'll run 50' and try 500, 1000 and 1500 and post the results. I take off the end fitting for the test. Won't be quick but I'll get it done Monday.

 

[dgardner]

Cool!

 

[Mikey P]

Coming to Wandlanta Dan?

 

[dgardner]

Just take note of the pressure while flowing to be sure the results weren't due to your pump petering out.

 

[dgardner]

Coming to Wandlanta Dan?

My anniversary is April 23rd, I think my wife has other plans...

 

[Mikey P]

Show her all there is to do down town and I bet she would love to come out.


Let her loose with Mrs Monahan and Mrs Pailliotet and she will love you long long

 

[GeneMiller]

Had an hour before my commercial job and completely forgot about the flow test. Instead I wasted time here resting. Duh

 

[Desk Jockey]

My anniversary is April 23rd, I think my wife has other plans...

Just tell her you have an anniversary every year but don't get a chance to hang out with the guys in Hotlanta every year.

On the bring side next year you wouldn't have to worry about asking over your anniversary. This will be the last one!

 

[Nate The Great]

What's an Anniversary??? Oh you mean you guys like to celebrate the end of your lives?!?

I don't like to window shop.... I like to touch, hold, smell, take home the goods......

 

[Desk Jockey]

You're an evil man Nate!

 

[Captain Morgan]

You guys are just wasting your time. The best way to test dry carpets is the highly scientific method of putting a paper towel on the carpet and press your hand down onto the paper towel and into the carpet and then visually inspect the paper towel. Oh yeah..I forgot, you have to count to 5 or was it 7? Maybe it was 10? Ahh..Too high tech for me to remember.

 

[Andy]

Were you able to do the test? What were the results? Is real world application the same as the mathematical equation?

 

[Mark Saiger]

Were you able to do the test? What were the results? Is real world application the same as the mathematical equation?

Started this project.... Didn't pan out...

There were too many pit falls with the testing meter...

Too much activity taking place with people wanting to try tools and us of course wanting to make sure those people had the opportunity to do so....

Some people drove over three hours just to come to the Fest to try things so we didn't want to let them down to have that experience.

The outside was crazy busy!

 

[Mikey P]

The meter we used gave us the same reading for every wand.

The El Diablo used was a monster.

 

[TConway]

I have done cfm testing on the wands I have, it was very interesting actually. I tested all wands with open wand slot and the numbers were showing a bit of difference in that test.
The Evo flowed the best hands down over all the other wands The DevPro I was working with had the lowest it was also the loudest but........
Next I placed a towel over the wand slot on each wand till I was able to get a 10 Hg reading on the truck mount....guess what ALL WANDS droped to the SAME CFM give or take 2 digits I believe they all fell around 135 or 145 I can't recall the exact number but my point is once the wands were brought to the same HG level they all were so close it was a mute point.

 

[Andy]

Don't know what all of you did, but it sounded like you were quite busy in Atlanta.

 

[Cleanworks]

I have done cfm testing on the wands I have, it was very interesting actually. I tested all wands with open wand slot and the numbers were showing a bit of difference in that test.
The Evo flowed the best hands down over all the other wands The DevPro I was working with had the lowest it was also the loudest but........
Next I placed a towel over the wand slot on each wand till I was able to get a 10 Hg reading on the truck mount....guess what ALL WANDS droped to the SAME CFM give or take 2 digits I believe they all fell around 135 or 145 I can't recall the exact number but my point is once the wands were brought to the same HG level they all were so close it was a mute point.

But what if you had the truck cranked to 16 or 17 like Larry suggests? Would there be a difference? Would you flow more cfm than at 10?

 

[Larry Cobb]

But what if you had the truck cranked to 16 or 17 like Larry suggests? Would there be a difference? Would you flow more cfm than at 10?

Absolutely !!

CFM at the wand IS related to lift generated at the wand.

One issue with these flowmeters is lint affecting the readings.

When we did our Wand testing, we had to clean out the flowmeter several times since the carpet was not prevaced.

http://www.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=document_general_info&cPath=63&products_id=5319

 

[Mikey P]

The only cleaners who should be concerned with maximum lift and cfm are those that dual wand every day.


The rest of you should be figuring out how to incorporate Rotary Extraction into your regime.

The gREat equalizer.

 

[KevinL]

Or do another damn dry stroke.

 

[Mikey P]

there you go.


it was great to meet your family Kevin.

well done!

 

[KevinL]

Thank you sir. I wish we could have spent more time getting to know Paula but we needed to get back home to our dog who had never been kenneled and we had a friend feeding our cat and 7 chicks in the house that were quickly out growing their box.

 

[TConway]

But what if you had the truck cranked to 16 or 17 like Larry suggests? Would there be a difference? Would you flow more cfm than at 10?

I have my vac relief valve cranked down on my TM and if I block my vac port it will go all the way up to 16 sure but will it maintain that high of lift on carpet no way there is to much air that gets by the wand slot so my TM will not maintain that while cleaning carpet.
So say I did the same test on my TM and created a block on the wands that would create a 16" HG reading I would think that the air flow would be even less because as you increase lift you lose CFM.
Now on a much bigger blower machine this maybe a little different because they are pulling more air and have more power to spin the blower at higher lift levels while cleaning carpet, thus pulling more air also.
But I still think that the wands would be in the same ballpark of cfm....if they can flow that much to begin with, I know the EVO 16 could, Maybe the Bentley also because I believe it has a better design to allow for the flow, PMF TI 15 also possibly, but that is just me guessing just looking at the wands and there design.
I would question the PC TI or pretty much any other wand for that matter when you start pushing 200+ CFM in a wand.
The thing is most TM's on average are not HOLDING these HG's when cleaning carpet except maybe CGD just to much air entering the system

 

[Mikey P]

The Bentley has excellent airflow.

 

[TConway]

The Bentley has excellent airflow.

Just by looking at its design I would think it would have very good flow.
I have been wanting to do a little video of something I came across when testing things that was kinda interesting and may kinda help make things kinda easier to understand when we talk about airflow and how vacuum are the same but a little different.
Let me see if I can put it together and film it in a short enough video, if I can I will post it.

 

[bob vawter]

Let see if we can answer the wand to carpet airflow. CFM and Lift are opposite numbers, if lift goes up cfm goes down. let us work with a known. The VRV is set at a given amount closed of at the machine, let's say 14hg. When you put the wand on the carpet the lift is less because their is air moving through the carpet extracting the dirt and water in the process. With the wand on the carpet have someone record lift. Now remove the hose from the wand and cap it. start drilling holes in the cap until the lift equal what was recorded when the wand was on the carpet.
Can the airflow be calculated by multiplying the number of holes by the diameter of the holes using that area in the equation. If that doesn't work, can you use a flowmeter with the holed cap in place to see what the airflow is?

post of the thread...........

 

[Desk Jockey]

Don't know what all of you did, but it sounded like you were quite busy in Atlanta.

A lot and lots of "Hands On" with a dozen wands, stairs tools, Rotovac's and various styles of Zippers. Dozens of cleaners all wanting to try the tools.

I carried the vacuum meter in and out several times. I even asked Mike what it was for. I saw Mike using but didn't know it was a test.

 

[Captain America]

I am seeing a trend with larger engines...larger blowers
With glides. Rotaries and zipper as no hindrance with labor...
I am predicting it will continue....
I continue to ask the question why manufacturers don't spend the extra few hundred for larger blowers and engines....
A 4.5 blower increase to 4.7 is only about 100-200$ if that
From 25 hp to 30 hp about 300$ more
From 30 hp to 35 hp only about 300-400$
All these increases amount to 20-30% more airflow...less than 1000$

 

[Cleanworks]

The meter we used gave us the same reading for every wand.

The El Diablo used was a monster.

When you say the El Diablo was a monster, do you mean the heat? Or the vacuum?

 

[Nate The Great]

When you say the El Diablo was a monster, do you mean the heat? Or the vacuum?

From the looks of the El Diablo in the picture they posted, I didn't see an exhaust stack for the diesel burner so it must me HX..

Last I remember the ED had a 27hp motor, I think MB moved from Honda to Kohler engines...


Edited: I just went back to look at the pictures again and I only seen the big picture posted by FredC on the MB El Diablo HX.... I just seen the rear van shot with the diesel burner....