Do you charge by the square foot or by the room?

[Ron Werner]

But Ron why couldn't you just do 30/60/90 if that meets your price goal?

In your example that would be $300 for the cleaning and for $450 if you include protector. An increase in price plus you saved yourself an extra trip.

Yes, you're right. Charging by the room I would just need to figure the right combination but then I have to get over charging $60 for some small area in a bedroom, no bigger than a hall which I'd be charging 30 for.

Charging by the room requires less effort on our part and gives an immediate price over the phone, but it seems to me to be more professional, more precise, to charge for the area being cleaned. In my example, I had one room priced more than 3 bdrms and hall.

One could use the sf to measure, or even just look at what needs cleaning, figure how many hours, and give one number for the whole thing, ie price by the job. It would still require pre-inspection, and sf could be used to arrive at that "one" number.
Then just "package" the prices, ie give 3 numbers with 3 different levels of cleaning/protecting.

 

[B&BGaryC]

[quote="B&BGaryC":2jk5kpxx]
I thought this was a petition to ban Chris

WHat DID i DO NOW????[/quote:2jk5kpxx]

Nothin, I was just razzing mikey. Your name was the first that popped up.

When I say that I price by the sq ft, it's by the sq. ft. of the room, empty or not. A BR is about 40 bucks to clean regular, or about 60 soiled... protector. I give it away at 12 and 15 sq. ft.

A living room? 85 bucks, or 120 bucks soiled.

I haven't figured out furniture pricing beyond this: If you are having less than 1000 sq. ft cleaned, I will move 2 pieces, more than a thousand sq. ft, 4 pieces. Anything else is extra. Everybody ends up getting an extra piece or two for free. If they want a lot of stuff moved, I add between 6 and 15 cents a square foot, charge five dollars a piece or just pull a number out of thin air that I think will be worth moving all of that stuff.

There is another trick I learned. When they ask how much it will be to move such and such, I say I won't do it and they don't need it moved. I didn't know that was an option when I first started running a van solo at "Elite" cleaning company. I moved a medium-large sized piano solo. I also lifted it the necessary 2 inches on either side enough to kick a half sheet of blocks under each corner of it. Never occurred to me I could tell the customer I wasn't going to move a piano without any help.

 

[Kevin. McCreary]

For those of you that switched from one to the other how did the transition go for your long time clients?

The transition was easy.

going from sq ft to room

It might be hard to go the other way.

I went from .25 psf to room pricing.

To a minimum of first 2 rooms for 112$

which is .28 psf allowing 400 square feet for the first two areas.

Most of the time there is not 400 square feet, typically

its traffic only. So it can be .28 psf on up!

Then its 25-35$ per 200 sq ft area there after.

It has made my job average higher, eliminated driving around

doing inspections/estimates @ $4.25 per gallon,

easier to sell over the phone and market, easier to raise your prices with

no conflict. I also found when taking away jobs from the competition

that high end home owners feel "nickeled and dimed" when you measure.

Its also a vast wast of time. Most of my repeats could care less how

I charge. "Just do what you do Kevin" or "let me know how much when

your all done". I think you can explain to repeats how it can be a benefit

to them and you should all ready have their measurements in your database.

 

[LeeCory]

As I said I am making more money by the hour by room pricing then I was at 30 cents a sq. Mostly because I advertise the room price for traffic lanes only or empty. (lots of saved time)

One more thing that is very important here, and possibly the reason some guys that are by the square would NEVER switch to by the room. If you do not have alot of work and only have a job or so a day, you have to suck as much money out of that job as possible. You can't make up the money in doing more work..... if you don't have the work.

If you take 2 hours to vacuum (nothing against vacuuming), or only do a job or two a day.... stick with per sq. ft. pricing. And raise your price.

If you are booked up and lots of work coming in, consider per room pricing and offer the customer savings if they move their own stuff.

Think about it.

 

[breathe72]

PER ROOM PRICING on Residential.

PER SQ FT PRICING on Commercial.


So far in this thread there has been alot of detailed input backing up WHY 'by the room' is better.

The argument in favor of square footage, so far, has been pretty weak.

Let the new custys call us 'per area' guys, right after they've talked to you sq ft guys and went "WHAT???"

 

[Greenie]

Commercial is more "per hour" if you ask me, how else are you supposed to show profit at .03

.03 a square foot
I'll still make a profit
Give me a Cimex, shampoo, & a brush...

 

[patch]

You want a good argument for sq footage pricing? Well here it is:

Most of you are charging a room rate with a 200 sq ft max. If I charge .65 psf (I do, and get it every time. However, I clean more thoroughly than most anyone else wants to so I take longer to do it) then I make $130 off of the same room that you get paid 30-40 for. You get paid that whether the room is 100 square feet or 200 square feet. You don't get a discount on the time it takes to clean just because you gave your client a discount on the price.

Most people don't understand that we are not Walmart Widgets. You can't sell service in bulk and make a profit doing it.When you do room rate pricing, that is the mentality. It's thought that if you offer a low enough price then you can stay in business. This is simply not the case. There aren't 100 clones of you and your truck to do the work.

Maybe you haven't thought about the industry you are in, but most people consider us a "Do you want fries with that?" industry. For many of us it's like going to school to be a doctor for 8 years and only charging 15 bucks an hour to our patients while providing thousands of dollars of medical service? We are carpet doctors charging for our services rather than our knowledge. Charge for both!

Have any of you considered how much it would be to replace carpet? There is the $ amount, the down time of the home, the stress, the overall inconvenience. Even at .65 psf, I provide my clients thousands of $'s in savings, peace of mind, and confidence that when they have a problem, I can help them fix it. All of this is priceless for most people. Be that kind of provider and there is no doubt that you will be at the top of your game with all of the opportunities life has to offer.

I hope this helps as you consider your options in pricing.

 

[TimP]

Have any of you considered how much it would be to replace carpet? There is the $ amount, the down time of the home, the stress, the overall inconvenience. Even at .65 psf, I provide my clients thousands of $'s in savings, peace of mind, and confidence that when they have a problem, I can help them fix it. All of this is priceless for most people. Be that kind of provider and there is no doubt that you will be at the top of your game with all of the opportunities life has to offer.

Since I have family who is in the sales and installation business I know how much carpet costs even at wholesale. Carpet has gone up probably 10 times in the past 6 years and it will continue to go up along with the price of oil. If you haven't increased your price to coincide with the price increases then you're short changing yourself. Because in fact the price of the item you are cleaning is a major factor of what it is worth to have the item cleaned. Keep in mind guys most people can't get carpet installed in their home for less than 2.50 a ft. And some are paying as much as 5-6 bucks a ft for carpet. Even at 30-50+ cents a ft you are still worth the price you are charging because replacing carpet is a big ordeal for a home. Everything in each room must be moved out, a house has to be completely torn apart and put back together. It's a huge inconvenience and stressful situation for the customer. Keep this in mind when you do your pricing. For the most part many of us aren't charging enough for what we are doing for our customers.

As far as room and sqft pricing goes it doesn't matter what way you charge as long as you're making money. It comes down to what you make per hour not how you charge. Each one of us can figure out what we are making per hour at the end of the job. If you aren't making enough then you need to go up it's that simple. I for one charge as much as I think I can get, I would go up if I was booked up weeks in advance but I'm not so I'll stay in line with my competitors. If I was booked up weeks in advance I would go up and wouldn't worry about what my competition was charging.

 

[Greenie]

I promote raising one's prices as much as anyone, but to make this statement is absurd.
"...then I make $130 off of the same room that you get paid 30-40 for"
Most in this area are struggling to get that $40 per room consistently, I don't see where the $40 customer is suddenly going to pay $130 for the same room?

 

[patch]

Hey Greenie,

It's not unreasonable to charge for your services. I know that, on it's face, $130 is a lot. However, I did preface it with saying I don't clean the way that you clean. You can't clean like I do and stay in business at 30 to 40 per room.

I get 99% of traffic lanes and furniture lines out of carpets. My slogan could be "brand new carpet without the brand new price. That's how good I am. I have samples up on my website under testimonials. Actual video footage of cleans I have done, not just someone praising me for it. I can back up every claim I make and most people who have an issue with the price never say a word after they see my work. I do so much more than spray and suck. If you are interested in how I get my results I would be more than happy to share, but that's how I can get $130 for 200 square feet. No one in my neck of the woods takes the time to get the results that I do. Eduacation is truely worth every penny I paid for it with the IICRC.

 

[Ron Werner]

A job today
By the room:
LR, 2 bdrms, hall. using 30-60-90 = 210

By the SF
490 at 50 cents = 245

repeat clients so no extra drive, 2hrs from arrival time. Vacant.

I know how to talk to potential client over the phone to explain sf pricing.
I know how well I can close the job when I am THERE talking with them.

The test would be to start pricing by the room, giving a "quoted" price over the phone, selling them over the phone, then going to the job and seeing just what kind of work it is really going to take.


How many guys have gotten stung, quoting over the phone, showing up and nothing is like they said it was, ie trashed, deep spots or pet spots all over, and now your "quoted" price seems SOOOOO inadequate?

 

[Rex Tyus]

I am sooooo glad we are blessed with the knowledge and experience of world a class cleaner that has survived the ups and downs of running a business. Dealt with new competition or old competitors revitalized. Experienced a market with unemployment at 11% and rode the wave of 3%, felt the boom of the housing bubble and the thud of the crash all in less than one year. We should all be grateful. Please enlighten us as to what you have discovered unique to the industry.

Is it your state of the art equipment? Your unheard of technique, your earth shattering marketing program, or simply your charm wit and personality?

And for the last time if you average more per room sf pricing than btr, for Gods sake raise your room rate. :shock:

 

[B&BGaryC]

Hey Greenie,

It's not unreasonable to charge for your services. I know that, on it's face, $130 is a lot. However, I did preface it with saying I don't clean the way that you clean. You can't clean like I do and stay in business at 30 to 40 per room.

I get 99% of traffic lanes and furniture lines out of carpets. My slogan could be "brand new carpet without the brand new price. That's how good I am. I have samples up on my website under testimonials. Actual video footage of cleans I have done, not just someone praising me for it. I can back up every claim I make and most people who have an issue with the price never say a word after they see my work. I do so much more than spray and suck. If you are interested in how I get my results I would be more than happy to share, but that's how I can get $130 for 200 square feet. No one in my neck of the woods takes the time to get the results that I do. Eduacation is truely worth every penny I paid for it with the IICRC.

I'd like to hear your technique. I'd like to know how long each room takes you to clean, and I would like to see your website. I'd like to know what kind of equipment your run.

Disclaimer: I am not calling BS on you. I just want to know. For my 40-60 cent sq. ft cleaning I formulate a specific prespray for them, vacuum, spray, scrub with a floor machine, extract, spot, deodorize, use a floor machine again with a cotton bonet, dry it with a fan and groom. I have seen impossible things come out with that method. The problem: I can't remove wear. I'm not talking about dark traffic lanes being called wear, I'm telling you, carpet that has been walked on for ten years looks different than the carpet that has been hidden under a sofa for ten years.

 

[Greenie]

I just spray some shampoo and scrub it in with my sneakers, so he's probably got me beat.

I acquiesce.

What is Ethical Services?

 

[patch]

OK, point taken, I havent' been on my own long enough to really PROVE myself yet but I appreciate the criticism as well as the genuine interest.

I have been in the business for about 10 years. I have worked for 2 large companies in my area and seen the workmanship of many others. My results are at www.imagecleaningsystems.com Just click on the testimonial links and "what people say" and you will see the videos.

I think you all know that it isn't the equipment or marketing that allows you to get a price. But rather it's the ability of the technician to perform. That's the route I have taken.

As for what I do that is different, judge for yourself whether it might be worth it for you to at least offer a better service even though they may not take it.

Step one : I use the ProCaps brush machine to pre-agitate the carpet. you would be surprised how much dirt comes out.

Step two: I vacuum (I use a Kirby, but just don't use something you can pick up at wally world)

Step three: I apply Ultrapac Renovate. Yes it's a restorative cleaner for fires mostly but you may find that it works great on traffic areas. It is about a 12 ph so you will need to neutralize it but if you are using a rotovac, it does a really good job of rinsing.

Step four: I use the ProCaps to scrub the carpet. This gives the cleaner time to work and provides the necessary agitation to get even more debris out of the way.

Step 5: I use the rotovac to extract

Step 6 I apply protectant

Step 7: I use the airpath to dry. I guarantee a 95-100% dry before I leave the site.

In short, It might take me an hour or more to do a 200 square foot room. However, the results are AMAZING and for those of you who want to make good money without a whole lot of back breaking effort, this is a good way to go.

I would be curious to hear any feedback and suggestions.

Matt

PS. John told me some of you like to mix it up a bit. I can handle it. But let's see if we can't help each other improve.

PSS. I do realize that not everyone wants a cadillac clean but how do you know if you never ask?

 

[diamond brian]

Hey, Matt. I visited your website and am very impressed. It's obvious that you're an intelligent guy who takes great pride in his work.

Why all the JP/Ethical stuff though? Everything else on your website would indicate that you're better than that.

 

[Greenie]

Maybe John can sell you some proper pre-spray that doesn't instantly damage the stain resist of 5th gen. nylon.

Ask him for some 2.5" hose to help with the roto-soaker, and water protector, and you may not need the air-path and you can have 95% dried carpet before you even break out the fans.

Takes the glides off your feet and put them on the wand and you'll get the other 5% taken care of.

Do you know turtle Ron?

 

[patch]

You know, I don't know why you are so self righteous and arrogant to NOT KNOW that sometimes cleaning carpet requires something that will strip it down.

How often do you clean a 5th generation nylon carpet that isn't less than 5 years old? like NEVER! Even the manufacturer doesnt' guarantee protectant much past 5 years. DO YOUR RESEARCH before coming down on my methods and practices. You could at least TRY to be helpful instead of insulting. Were you raised in a barn somewhere? You want to mix it up with me go right ahead but leave the insults at home.

Since you can't seem to get your water pressure to go below 600psi, it's no wonder you call the rotovac a roto soaker. Of course you will leave the carpets soaked at that psi. You only clean at 350-400psi with ANY rotary machine.

I might be new here, but I'm no slouch. I can hold my own on this topic so, if you want to be civil and helpful, by all means. But when you draw the swords, don't bring a knife to a gun fight
and pack your lunch...for a week. You'll be a while!

No I don't know turtle Ron

 

[Rex Tyus]

Damn someone seems awful sensitive.

I could talk for awhile about your chems and your method but it has been a long day and I will let you bask in your own glorious abilities.

 

[patch]

Not sure what you mean by JP/ethical stuff. I do consider myself to be pretty good at what I do. If I am correct, you may be wondering if it's a veiled shot at other carpet cleaners. I hope you don't take this the wrong way but if you give price quotes for your services over the phone, then, to me it's unethical. Both to your client and YOURSELF. You just never know what you are going to come up against and therefore there is always some additional discussion about price (add ons such as repairs, reds, stains, protectants. You get the idea) To me that is a form of bait and switch. You tell the client one price and then you find out that the job is not what you were told it would be so the price is different in the end.

My philosophy is that all jobs should be eyeballed by you or your cleaner so that all those issues can be addressed up front. This is what I consider to be ethical behavior and, at least in my neck of the woods, the cleaners dont' want to take the time to build that level of trust. It's just another job to them and another dollar for the paycheck. I have found that my clients appreciate the time and effort I give them to explain what I can provide with my services. That's also why it's not so hard to get a higher price. Because what I provide is such a different experience than what they are used to and they like it alot. My challenge as a new business is to get people to see and to talk about why I am different. It is starting to catch on now.

I don't know what the JP is that you are referring to though.

 

[patch]

Hi Rex,

I don't mean to come across as bitter. Just want people to know that if they are going to criticze then they better back it up.

I would love any additional insight into my cleaning that you can provide. I love to learn new and simpler means of doing this job. What I do works really well with what I use. If you have something that does the same job with less negatives, I am all ears.

Thanks Rex

 

[Greenie]

gonna be a fun week.

 

[joey895]

Yep, you really need to chill dude. I didn't see anyone bashing you. Greenie gave you some good ideas that if your not too hard headed you'll consider. There are some pre-sprays that are very effective but not nuclear.

By the way Roto-soaker is a term of endearment.

 

[Blue Monarch]

I'm not buying this.

 

[Jim Williams]

I'm a room pricer, but not a cheapo room pricer, and the way I look at it is that it doesn't take that long to clean 100 sq. ft. of open space.

For example, today I cleaned a 1200 sq. ft. job, took about 3 hours. It was 5 rooms and stairs.

I then cleaned a 4 room job that was about 650 sq. ft, also 3 hours. I made my target hourly rate on both jobs. If I was a sq. ft. pricer at around .30 a ft. I doubt I would have gotten the 1200 ft. job.

Size doesn't always matter. You're still going to have the same set up time and time spent dragging your stuff from room to room. And small rooms are harder to move around in so alot of times take longer than the big rooms with nice open space. Then there is the clutter factor in small rooms. People use these rooms as closets to store all thier junk.

Just my opinion.

 

[Ron Werner]

I find this industry sooooo fascinating how we are all sooooo, what's the best word, into our work. :wink:

I'm all for doing a great job, wish more cleaners took that much pride, but on this board its preaching to the choir. Just about everyone wants to clean in the most ethical and efficient and profitable way. And there seems to be many ways to accomplish that. Hence, lots of discussion and learning.


As for doing on-site quotes, did one today that I couldn't have properly done over the phone. Lady has dust and humidity issues and a fair bit of furn to move to do the job right. I couldn't have explained what I did and quoted properly over the phone. Works for me.

 

[John Olson]

LMAO I told him I really really did. Greenie you will have time to talk with Matt when your here. Matt YOU CANNOT take all his time when he is here he's gots lots of work to do.

Dirk yes, Matt is who and what he says he is. He is a GOOD GUY and is determined.

Matt worked for probably the biggest company in Utah county. I consider his former employers to be the best in the specialty fields i.e. rugs etc. They are the only people that touch Lora's family rugs worth more then everything else we own combined x2. So Matt does come from a very good background.

I have spoke to him about nuking every carpet but he is a grown man and until he buys a carpet it is what it is.

I wouldn't put 2.5 hose on his machine it might just freak right the F**K out and blow up. He is working on getting a new machine but right now making sure the 800A gets him through the summer is our priority. Yes he bought what he could afford get over it. the machine squirts sucks and gets reasonably hot and for a guy breaking off the price was right so point fingers at his machine if you like but next year I fully believe Matt will have a rig that will match the rest of his standards of excellence.

Now Greenie if You can help me get him off the rotovac that would be cool but since you wife is a rotovac cult memember too I am not sure how much help your really going to be

 

[Mikey P]

Patch has my full support to kick you broke dicks in the ass.

 

[LeeCory]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what I read.


Mike I think if you reread what was said, that high priced cleaner cant afford proper equipment.

 

[Mikey P]

You think I actually read all this crap?


I just kick sand and run.