Encap machines?

[Russ T.]

It seems like there are basically 2 kinds of encap machine. Those using bonnets and those using cylindrical brushes. I have used the second kind quite a bit. It was a Whittaker 20" version that I used a lot to maintain the carpet at a community college. I thought it did a great job but could have been built better. You guys who have used a few different kinds, what is the best to start out with? I have a truckmount for residential but am very open to diving into commercial cleaning using encap. Thanks for the help!


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[jcooper]

175 floor machine will be the least amount of $$$.

 

[Russ T.]

175 floor machine will be the least amount of $$$.

Thanks, what is that?

 

[Bruce Humphrey]

View attachment 1687

 

[Shane Deubell]

Personally like the cimex but you can start off with the machine above until you have enough business. I would add a water tank though.

 

[encapman]

Personally like the cimex but you can start off with the machine above until you have enough business. I would add a water tank though.

What Shane said!

Cimex is hands down the best for commercial work.
But you can get by with a Rotary, CRB, or OP.

And as Shane mentioned, if you go with a Rotary - mount a tank on it.

 

[Mardie]

The biggest reason I like the Cimex is because it is built like a tank and is the undisputed King of what it does. It would be nice if this industry had more equipment that could make these claims.

 

[Derek]

are there any rotary's with a showerfeed through the center, like the Cimex's shower feed?

 

[encapman]

are there any rotary's with a showerfeed through the center, like the Cimex's shower feed?

I used to have an an old 17" Advance auto-scrubber that had a center-feed. But I owned that machine a long time ago! I haven't seen that feature on any rotary machines.

 

[Larry Cobb]

are there any rotary's with a showerfeed through the center, like the Cimex's shower feed?

A good aluminum nylon brush does a good job of distributing the encap:
View attachment 1696

Larry

 

[dealtimeman]

Nilfisk advance matador 17 or 20 have center shower feeds.​

 

[cu]

Cimex. . Great machine

 

[Russ T.]

Thanks guys. Do those cimex machines have the option of using brushes or only pads? Do you go through pads quickly?

 

[dealtimeman]

Both

 

[encapman]

Thanks guys. Do those cimex machines have the option of using brushes or only pads? Do you go through pads quickly?

You can use brushes or pads on the Cimex.

Brushes have the advantage that they can be used without replacing.
The brushes are also fairly gentle, so they're good for really delicate stuff.

FiberPlus brand pads have a few advantages over brushes:
1. The pads disperse the detergent more evenly than brush bristles, so you get even coverage while using less detergent.
2. The pads won't get snarled up with hair and fuzz like the brushes do. The brushes get crudded up pretty badly with fuzz.
3. The level of aggressiveness of the pads is better suited for agitation of carpet fiber than the edges of slippery brush bristles.
4. FiberPlus pads have a proprietary binder material that helps them hold up to carpet scrubbing.

Normally you'll average 7,000-10,000 sq ft of carpet per installation of FiberPlus brand pads. There are 15 pads to a case. So you'll get 5 installations of pads - with an average of 35,000 - 50,000 sq ft per box of pads. A box of FiberPlus pads is $32.70 so cost really isn't a factor. And as mentioned above, you should also be able to go through a little bit less detergent than you would with brushes, so in the end you may actually save a little using pads over brushes.

 

[randy]

I went up to Bailtimore, Maryland yesterday for a trade show to check out the new Whittaker Trio. Incredible machine with many improvements over the tried and true CRB that they are famous for. Has three brushes, much stronger motor, is belt driven, greatly improved spray system, better and bigger wheels, built in collection bin to suck up fiber/hair debris and dirt, easier to push and "self propelled" on the back stroke. The thing is pricy $3,775 with 5 cases of juice (11.25 gallons) and shipping but it's a work horse. Test models have 1000 hours( on the specially installed test hour meters) with no break downs. The unit weighs 67 pounds which is 25 pounds heavier than a 15" Whittaker Twin ( original unit).

Having run the unit I think this is a game changer. With the stiffer brushes it will scrub as well as the Cimex and I have owned the 15" and 19" cimexs so I'm not guessing. It will also sweep the carpet from the bottom of the fiber and suck most of the debris up into the collection bins making a post vacuuming unnecessary. With the onboard spray system you will not be overusing juice ( a problem with the shower feed on the cimex) and the operational cost will also be lower since you won't be buying pads constantly.

They have a 15 and 20 inch currently available with a 25" unit in testing. I believe the Cimex is about to be knocked off its lofty perch as the ultimate commercial carpet system. Before you buy a Cimex or much worse the notoriously unreliable Trinity, check out the Whittaker Trio. They are a rock solid company that stands behind their product and has a long established record of exceptional customer service. Plus I really liked how quite the unit is, you could day clean a hospital with it.

It's very well made with no Home Depo parts, gas line pipes for sprayer or twisted handles. Sure you can't go wrong with a cimex but this thing is better for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Mardie]

Randy my carpet machine has the largest diameter brush in the cc industry. I have a choice between a white (soft) or black (stiff) With full load on I can put at least 80lbs to this 12 inch brush and I can say for a fact that no nylon brush will scrub the nasties from a carpets surface like the Cimex with fibre pads (not even close) Make note that the comparison I am making is scrubbing and releasing the nasties from the surface of the carpet.

 

[bigchuckie]

Brushes pads and even little tuway pads

 

[randy]

Randy my carpet machine has the largest diameter brush in the cc industry. I have a choice between a white (soft) or black (stiff) With full load on I can put at least 80lbs to this 12 inch brush and I can say for a fact that no nylon brush will scrub the nasties from a carpets surface like the Cimex with fibre pads (not even close) Make note that the comparison I am making is scrubbing and releasing the nasties from the surface of the carpet.

Not sure what system you have but I'm not comparing that. If you are referring to the Host or Von Schrader units , I owned both of those years ago as well. They are both a complete and utter joke compared to even the original Whittaker. Francis Vonshrader had a great idea in 1930 but time has marched on and his companies ( von shrader & Host ) haven't kept up with the times. Compared to the new TRIO, oh my its impossible to put into words the difference. In comparing the CIMEX machines that I have to the new Whittaker that I have now run and examined there is great difference. The machine I'm discussing doesn't use nylon brushes, it's not a rotary but a Counter rotating brush. The brushes are polypropylene and sweep upward through the carpet not around and around on the surface like a cimex. If you think a cimex removes deep down grime you are very mistaken. I have operated cimex machines for years and they are not even designed to do that. By the way, cimex does in fact void may carpet warranties and fiber pads were originally made for hard surfaces not "sanding" carpet fibers so the look clean. The cimex was originally designed to clean wood, specifically wood decks of ships. Can you clean commercial carpet with a cimex , sure. Can you clean all commercial carpet with a cimex and NOT void the warranty ? No. Whether we like it or not more than a few warranties are voided by any type of rotary. Manufacturers are waking up to the fact that our industry is using floor cleaning scrubbers and harsh fiber pads to improve the appearance of their product in total disregard to the warranty requirements. Now that may be ok , voiding warranties that is in the residential market but if you void the warranty on 200,000 square feet of commercial carpet, you are bankrupt. Insurance doesn't pay when you do something professionally in error, it pays for accidents. Being incompetent is not an accident, it's not a covered loss. The insurance company is going to wave the warranty in your face, and deny the claim . The facility owners insurance will pay the loss and then turn around and sue you to recover for the loss. Think that isn't happening in this industry, think again. There is a case in Pennsylvania right now where some cleaner bonnet cleaned 300,000 square feet and the manufacturer has terminated the warranty because of it. The cleaner that did this is a three truck operation and will be in bankruptcy once this goes to trial. Scary situation but totally avoidable with proper upfront research before cleaning.

At this trade show I also talked with several manufacturing reps and a huge commercial carpet wholesaler. There are big changes coming in how they demand the product is cared for. There will be huge profits in the commercial cleaning market in the coming years but not for cleaners that are voiding warranties.

 

[Mardie]

I do not use the Cimex as most people do. For me the Cimex replaces my pre spray and pre treat on only the worst situations. I always finish with the VonShrader and I must say this combo is absolutely amazing. I give VS suggestions all the time and all I get back are excuses. They do piss me off. It is a great system in the hands of a competent operator but the biggest problem is that their are to many tricks to make it sing for most people. With what I know about VS I would never recommend it to anyone except myself.lol With what you say about the new Trio I will be looking into that for sure. For you to say that a brush machine can scrub and release the nasties from a carpet surface better than a Cimex is a mouth full. Please do not tell me that you have to pre spray to make the Trio perform as such. If it takes a pre spray to make the Trio sing then that takes the magic away. All cc machines can clean with a properly applied pre spray.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Randy to you plan to outfit your company with Trio's? Will you get rid of your Cimex's or just have both machines to use as needed?

 

[Royal Man]

The trio says it was designed for large commercial areas. Yet it only has a 1-2 gal solution tank ? ( Personally I like pads better than brushes.) It looks like an updated Host machine to me.

 

[Mardie]

Ya that very small tank has me confused also. Seems you would be spending a lot of time refilling. Like on every up and down pass on the big stuff.

 

[Desk Jockey]

The trio says it was designed for large commercial areas. Yet it only has a 1-2 gal solution tank ? ( Personally I like pads better than brushes.) It looks like an updated Host machine to me.

I'd trust Randy, he has many years of experience with a lot of different machines. He knows what he is talking about, if he truly says it's time to change machines I'm going to listen.

 

[Charlie Lyman]

A good aluminum nylon brush does a good job of distributing the encap:
View attachment 1696

Larry

Larry, do you guys sell these?

 

[Mardie]

The one thing I have found with brush machines is that when doing commercial carpet with all the uneven concrete, is that the wide brushes cannot clean the low spots. I have used a 24 inch brush and found it missed all the low spots due to bridging. The 12 inch brush can also be a problem on very uneven concrete. From what I know the widest brush I would use for commercial would be 16 inches any thing more would produce very inconsistent results to the point of being bad.

 

[Derek]

any comment on the tiny solution tank Randy?

 

[Derek]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLxW4jwU0yQ&feature=player_embedded

at the 1:30 mark it looks like the spray jet placement might be poorly designed. you can see it hitting the side and dripping down onto the carpet, there would be some streaking there. the other side of the jet appears clogged. surprised they didn't correct it and re-shoot it.

has anyone been using this in the field to give us some end-user reviews?

how does it compare to their Twin model which has more metal and less plastic?

can it handle a greasy restaurant or is it more for the office arena?

are double / triple passes needed or just single passes?

how does it compare in end-appearance to the Cimex?

i like that it is approved by the mills. but i find it hard to believe it can clean as well as a Cimex (w/ Tuway BBC's to remove soil) or an OP.

 

[Larry Cobb]

In comparing the CIMEX machines that I have to the new Whittaker that I have now run and examined there is great difference. The machine I'm discussing doesn't use nylon brushes, it's not a rotary but a Counter rotating brush. The brushes are polypropylene and sweep upward through the carpet not around and around on the surface like a cimex. If you think a cimex removes deep down grime you are very mistaken. I have operated cimex machines for years and they are not even designed to do that. By the way, cimex does in fact void may carpet warranties and fiber pads were originally made for hard surfaces not "sanding" carpet fibers so the look clean. Can you clean commercial carpet with a cimex , sure. Can you clean all commercial carpet with a cimex and NOT void the warranty ? No. Whether we like it or not more than a few warranties are voided by any type of rotary. Manufacturers are waking up to the fact that our industry is using floor cleaning scrubbers and harsh fiber pads to improve the appearance of their product in total disregard to the warranty requirements. Now that may be ok , voiding warranties that is in the residential market but if you void the warranty on 200,000 square feet of commercial carpet, you are bankrupt.
The insurance company is going to wave the warranty in your face, and deny the claim . The facility owners insurance will pay the loss and then turn around and sue you to recover for the loss. Think that isn't happening in this industry, think again. There is a case in Pennsylvania right now where some cleaner bonnet cleaned 300,000 square feet and the manufacturer has terminated the warranty because of it. The cleaner that did this is a three truck operation and will be in bankruptcy once this goes to trial. Scary situation but totally avoidable with proper upfront research before cleaning.

At this trade show I also talked with several manufacturing reps and a huge commercial carpet wholesaler. There are big changes coming in how they demand the product is cared for. There will be huge profits in the commercial cleaning market in the coming years but not for cleaners that are voiding warranties.

Shaw is stating only cylindrical brush machines on their carpets,

for Encap to maintain their carpet between extraction cleaning.

We also like the Twin 20" Cylindrical Brush, with a couple of modifications to make it more durable.

http://www4.cobbcarpet.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=70&products_id=2536

Larry

P.S. Look at Whitaker's flooding carpet over wood with the spotting claw:
<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9SdOREC-wmc?feature=player_embedded" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

 

[Nampa Carpet Cleaning]

HEY !!! I have a video like that too lol. I don't understand what it has to do with encap machine though ?

http://youtu.be/O2jEGSpWDjM