Encap Residential

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

Cleaning a 2nd res. customer who has been "encapped" by a cleaner. Just one or two more of these and I'm going to be more vocal about encapping a home; and not your own.

Same complaints as 4 months ago. Spots came back a couple weeks after, never "felt" clean. As usual I find myself doing damage control after yet another "professional" cleaner. Seriously this industry has the absolute smallest path of resistance to enter. And you pad cleaners need not respond to this thread, you don't want to hear how many customers I have added after you crafty folks.

 

[Ross Buettner]

I wanted to kick in that it's area based as well.

Here in Wisconsin with all the salt, slush, snow, mud... carpets literally get caked down and packed. There's nothing that can "clean" them back to their original shape. Color loss, fiber strains... the list goes on.

Yet there's people here who do it. And it doesn't go over that well.....

Commercial? Absolutley.... I'm talking residential.

 

[randy]

Scott,
Padders and encappers hear the exact same thing about "steam cleaners". We have tons of customers that are feed up with "those guys with all the hoses that prop your door open and scuff up the walls". Reappearing spots are probably the biggest complaint I hear about HWE. I cleaned with truck mounts for a dozen years and a quality job can be done with either method, it's just there are lots of really lousy cleaners that couldn't clean regardless of their method.

VLM will continue to grow at an incredible rate regardless of how vocal you and other HWE only guys are for hard economic reasons far beyond your control. A new cleaner can buy $3,000 worth of VLM equipment, toss in the back of his existing SUV and be competing against you by the weekend . If he under stands SEO, how to properly use Google maps and other local search engines better than you, he will demolish you in the market place regardless of his method. If you have deluded yourself into thinking differently, it's costing you big time.

This is a marketing business first, a selling business second, a customer service business third and a carpet cleaning business dead last. That's why VLM guys can do a job you think is inferior and charge more than you do. Hotwater extraction has become to be viewed as commodity service, that's a unfortunate reality of the market place. The most important VLM closing phrases, " don't worry we aren't going to drag those filthy hoses around your home that were cleaning up sewage 3 hours ago. We aren't a spray and go cleaning company that soaks your carpets and leaves you with reappearing spots."

 

[cleanimagemarketing]

Soooo....

Why not offer both?

That way each method becomes a tool you use at your own discretion and you're customers view you as the expert with an unbiased opinion.

 

[randy]

Soooo....

Why not offer both?

That way each method becomes a tool you use at your own discretion and you're customers view you as the expert with an unbiased opinion.

That's one take on it and we do but some violently disagree with encap in residential.

 

[Dolly Llama]

"it's just there are lots of really lousy cleaners that couldn't clean regardless of their method."


egg-zaccally

I rarely disagree with Randy (he's a VERY sharp fellow)
and it may not even be a disagreement ....but there is one challenge spray'n wipe cleaning has to overcome ..and that's "perception" in the res custy's eyes .

By and large the perception (whether real or imagined) is that TM HWE is superior to spray'n wipe.
and being that we use both methods , I can say unequivocally that when done right, TM HWE IS most definitely superior to spray'n wipe from a "clean" standpoint on cut piles.
the gap narrows on low loop piles (if not using a dual method of roto scrub'n flush/rinse extract)



..L.T.A.

 

[hogjowl]

There will always be cleaners who thrive on the fringe of "normal" just like there will always be customers who request unusual cleaning methods. There are people who believe in UFO's and Big Foot and there are people who think that encap cleaning really IS cleaning.

Some folks like red heads and some folks like fat women.

Fat women need to feel clean too ...

 

[Brian R]

I would never encap residential. I believe the soil needs to be extracted.

 

[NobleCarpetCleaners]

well, through all that smoke and mirror show you just talked about is actual "performance". Actual cleaning is dead last? Shitty performance is what I posted about. Marketing and selling the method got a dip shit encapper through the door but shitty performance left that customer wide open for the future. So I get that you walked from HWE after 10 years but that only leaves me to believe you were a shitty steam cleaner and/or you couldn't phyically hump the job of hoses and wands.

I throw everyone under the bus when I'm selling residential in the field; steamers, VLM'rs, CO2's, Host'rs, everyone. Educating consumers with "quality" information leaves them to making informed decisions about how they will spend their money. Whether its soaking their carpet with a drag wand or rotary, sanding their carpet with a scrub pad or better yet an overgrown terry towel, they are looking for performance. You would market and sell them into a method because its a cheap investment and requires significantly less labor. That's my personal favorite explanation with customers about "what went wrong". Then I simple throw everyone under the wheels with they never really learned how to clean in the first place.

 

[Brian R]

So YOU'RE the guy.

 

[Dolly Llama]

question/clarification ...are we talking full blown scrub'n run encRap sCampoo?
or bonnet/cotton or synthetic pad cleaning with enRrap pixie dust juice ?

the two methods are miles apart IMO.
one is completely unacceptable for res, the other has it's place and can achieve desirable results on light soil'd conditions


..l.T.A.

 

[jcooper]

The most important VLM closing phrases, "don't worry we aren't going to drag those filthy hoses around your home that were cleaning up sewage 3 hours ago. We aren't a spray and go cleaning company that soaks your carpets and leaves you with reappearing spots."



The most important HWE closing phrases: We are actually removing your dirt!

 

[Brian R]

You guys are funny.

If you know how to clean carpets, then either process should be fine within reason.

It's all about the guy doing it.


You spray, we spray
You extract, we extract
You remove a good amount of soil, so do we


It's all physics... Not emotions.

My 50 or so Google reviews are indicative of my satisfied client list.

This of course is Padcapping.... Not just scrub and vac later... Although I've never done that so I really don't know.


When someone asks if this is a "deep cleaning" I always ask "How deep do you think your carpet is?"

 

[The Great Oz]

People that "walk their dog" so it can crap on their neighbor's lawn (justified by "hey, it's fertilizer") or throw garbage out the car window ("it'll biodegrade eventually") are sociopaths. Their justification for their actions more firmly cement that profile.

If you don't care what happens to people/kids/pets that ingest encap residue...

 

[Jimmy L]

Can someone step up and actually state the 5 METHODS of CARPET CLEANING.

And not some renaming of the basic methods?

PLeAsE!

 

[Brian R]

Cleaning the carpet with anything will leave something in the carpet for the tennants to deal with.

 

[carpetcleaner]

I think that most, if not all methods, will safety clean carpet - if it is done correctly. I use TM HWE, shampoo, Host, OP. I choose which method or combo of methods that will produce the best results for each job. I explain to the customer how I'm going to clean and why I think it is the best way to handle their situation. I will let the customer dictate which method if they feel strongly for/against a certain method.

 

[Connor]

Cleaning the carpet with anything will leave something in the carpet for the tennants to deal with.

Speaking of sociopaths.....

 

[Brian R]

Don't be so hard on yourself Connor. You're coming around.



That entire sentence sounded wrong.

 

[randy]

For me, it's just business. My net has skyrocketed since going VLM nearly 12 years ago.

VLM, it's a big problem solver in this industry.
The problem was documented in a cleanfax survey of cleaners: The average carpet cleaner nets about $40,000 a year.

Be in love with your method or truck mount all you want. In most major cities $40,000 is a poverty income. Where I live it will qualify you for subsidized housing and free school lunches for your child. You can't have a retirement plan or even health insurance (that is worth having) on 40 grand a year. You can't be a homeowner (in most parts of the country) unless you like living in the ghetto. Frankly most truck mounted HWE cleaners I know are making a wage and not much else. Their wife has to work after owning a business for 10-15 years so they can afford health insurance and make a house payment. Sorry guys but that is pretty pathetic when compared to just about any other industry. If you think selling your business someday will fund your retirement, please rethink that retirement plan.

While our industry has become obsessed with equipment/method and that magical phrase " I regularly generate $150-$200 an hour", those in other businesses actually focus on net income. They build real businesses, have health insurance, retirement plans and you can't do that on $40,000 a year. That is why you have a 25% annual failure rate in this industry.

VLM offers this industry low capital start up and very high returns. Truck Mounted hot water extraction offers this industry high start up costs, huge repair and maintenance costs and a low paying "job" in most cases. Believe me, low moisture isn't going away. It's gaining "steam" and you will be seeing it in the residential environment more and more. Many of your new competitors will be VLM based. You may think that gives the HWE guy an advantage, it doesn't. They will run rings around most of you guys, make more money, invest in other industries, fund their retirement and end up with something. There is nothing worse than a 55-65 year old guy that is still pushing a wand because he has to and if he is pushing the wand at that age, he has to.

 

[randy]

Doubled post deleted.

 

[Ken Snow]

Re: Re: Encap Residential

Don't be so hard on yourself Connor. You're coming around.



That entire sentence sounded wrong.

Brian- you gotta stop trying to fight him in his way, just debate the way you do best otherwise you kinda come off lile the kid who says "that's what you are, what am I?"

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

 

[John G.]

I rarely disagree with Randy (he's a VERY sharp fellow)
and it may not even be a disagreement ....but there is one challenge spray'n wipe cleaning has to overcome ..and that's "perception" in the res custy's eyes .

By and large the perception (whether real or imagined) is that TM HWE is superior to spray'n wipe.
and being that we use both methods , I can say unequivocally that when done right, TM HWE IS most definitely superior to spray'n wipe from a "clean" standpoint on cut piles.
the gap narrows on low loop piles (if not using a dual method of roto scrub'n flush/rinse extract)

Lol, you using a tm? you using the best tm? You using op, you using the best OP?

Compare apples to apples, many knock Porties, many knock OP, but seldom do high quality Tms get knocked, NOR high quality OP.

Are you using the newest technology on one and not the other?

What do YOU tell your customers?

Often what cleaners preach is simply a reflection of what they TEACH their customers.

So what are YOU comparing when you say "unequivocally that when done right, TM HWE IS most definitely superior to spray'n wipe from a "clean" standpoint on cut piles.
"

 

[Dolly Llama]

So what are YOU comparing when you say "unequivocally that when done right, TM HWE IS most definitely superior to spray'n wipe from a "clean" standpoint on cut piles.
"

John, I'll preface by saying I have LIGHT YEARS more experience with VLM than YOU have with TM.
So you're just not on real solid footing if you're going to suggest what can and can't be done

what do we use for VLM??
Rotary with bonnets or VCT pads
and YOUR 3/4 HP Conquer
it's not JUNK "now" that you're hawking the new shake 'n shine machine is it ??


..L.T.A.

 

[Ken Snow]

I don't know where you get your info Randy, but a 40k net income is about 50-55 gross income. I would bet that less than 1/2 the people in the united states make anywhere near that.

 

[Ken Snow]

And to consider a Cleafax survey to have much merit seems unbelievable. Their surveys are almost as usuless as the MB polls.

 

[Dolly Llama]

And to consider a Cleafax survey to have much merit seems unbelievable. Their surveys are almost as usuless as the MB polls.

HEY...

actually, i think a poll on net income would be a good one

stay tOOn'd


..L.T.A

 

[Connor]

Re: Re: Encap Residential

[quote="Brian R":2ie6c3p7]Don't be so hard on yourself Connor. You're coming around.



That entire sentence sounded wrong.

Brian- you gotta stop trying to fight him in his way, just debate the way you do best otherwise you kinda come off lile the kid who says "that's what you are, what am I?"
[/quote:2ie6c3p7]

WTF, are you his coach, leave shillbot alone and kindly sashay yourself out of this.

 

[Connor]

I don't know where you get your info Randy, but a 40k net income is about 50-55 gross income. I would bet that less than 1/2 the people in the united states make anywhere near that.

How do your techs rank in that, Ken, above or below?

 

[Jeremy]

Scott,
Padders and encappers hear the exact same thing about "steam cleaners". We have tons of customers that are feed up with "those guys with all the hoses that prop your door open and scuff up the walls". Reappearing spots are probably the biggest complaint I hear about HWE. I cleaned with truck mounts for a dozen years and a quality job can be done with either method, it's just there are lots of really lousy cleaners that couldn't clean regardless of their method.

VLM will continue to grow at an incredible rate regardless of how vocal you and other HWE only guys are for hard economic reasons far beyond your control. A new cleaner can buy $3,000 worth of VLM equipment, toss in the back of his existing SUV and be competing against you by the weekend . If he under stands SEO, how to properly use Google maps and other local search engines better than you, he will demolish you in the market place regardless of his method. If you have deluded yourself into thinking differently, it's costing you big time.

This is a marketing business first, a selling business second, a customer service business third and a carpet cleaning business dead last. That's why VLM guys can do a job you think is inferior and charge more than you do. Hotwater extraction has become to be viewed as commodity service, that's a unfortunate reality of the market place. The most important VLM closing phrases, " don't worry we aren't going to drag those filthy hoses around your home that were cleaning up sewage 3 hours ago. We aren't a spray and go cleaning company that soaks your carpets and leaves you with reappearing spots."

There were some good points made above...