Fast Foamer info

[Jim Pemberton]

I have not heard from them, they are missing a HUGE opportunity when you consider all who will be in attendance


www.mikeysfest.com

Both seem very willing to communicate in depth on this forum.

I would think a larger audience and a chance to really show how their system works would be of interest.

 

[Kenny Hayes]

You know I couldn’t read all that. He bashed my Cimex Couldn’t tell if he was for or agin
the Bane. Anyways, I don’t care! #foamaway P.S. Marty’s been lying to us all these years. Throw them damn Sharks away!

 

[icleancarpetz]

Fastfoamer chemistry seems interesting. The cylindrical machine not so much.

Hot Water extraction vs Fastfoamer video, ok.

How bout a video comparing Fastfoamer, Orbot, Cimax, CRB, Whittaker, 175 using only FastFoamer for all the machines.

Then another video with the exact machines mentioned above but comparing Fastfoamer chemistry to other encap chemistries.

Its fair to ask…Since this is a revolutionary industry changing system why not the comparisons.

My apologies if comparison videos have already been done.

 

[Mikey P]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to resend my invitation to attend Mikey's Fest to Mr Brown, as his last record of participation at an industry event did not go well and was riddled with ugly confrontation...

 

[Stevie B]

Having been a part of our industry for over 50 years now, including during my time working with S100 and all of the above named people, I find these comments and observations to be both interesting and entertaining.

I hope one of these gentlemen will be in Indianapolis.

I know you find my comments interesting and entertaining, because they are accurate and bring clarity which may disrupt your power structure. I'll take it even further. 50 years to me, translates to "Old Guard". The long-standing, often older members of an organization who have accumulated significant power and influence, and may resist change or new ideas. Don't worry. This won't affect your power structure, LOL. I know who you are! I fear no one because I am the source! I am the reckoning! I come in peace, but will bring chaos to restore order. Make no mistake why I am here. There are no coincidences. Breathe it in... and exhale.

 

[Stevie B]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to resend my invitation to attend Mikey's Fest to Mr Brown, as his last record of participation at an industry event did not go well and was riddled with ugly confrontation...

Jump! Prove I'm right! This is the "Old Guard" at work. See how fast I work! I didn't even try. I just walked in the room!

 

[Stevie B]

Jump! Prove I'm right! This is the "Old Guard" at work. See how fast I work! I didn't even try. I just walked in the room!

You'll remove me, try to censor me, because you can't control me!

 

[Mikey P]

Lordy...

 

[Kenny Hayes]

And we think Bob’s crazy

 

[Jim Pemberton]

I know you find my comments interesting and entertaining, because they are accurate and bring clarity which may disrupt your power structure. I'll take it even further. 50 years to me, translates to "Old Guard". The long-standing, often older members of an organization who have accumulated significant power and influence, and may resist change or new ideas. Don't worry. This won't affect your power structure, LOL. I know who you are! I fear no one because I am the source! I am the reckoning! I come in peace, but will bring chaos to restore order. Make no mistake why I am here. There are no coincidences. Breathe it in... and exhale.

I'm anything but Old Guard....but that's ok, you don't know me.

I'm just old

 

[Kenny Hayes]

You old guard! You bout like the Longly boys over here in Oklahoma.

 

[Kenny Hayes]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to resend my invitation

Don’t resend, rescind

 

[Mikey P]

Who here from the old guard recalls when Host sent a rep and equipment to a Mikey's Fest in Santa Cruz , and they dramatically out cleaned all the other methods at that roller skating rink?

 

[Stevie B]

Fastfoamer chemistry seems interesting. The cylindrical machine not so much.

Hot Water extraction vs Fastfoamer video, ok.

How bout a video comparing Fastfoamer, Orbot, Cimax, CRB, Whittaker, 175 using only FastFoamer for all the machines.

Then another video with the exact machines mentioned above but comparing Fastfoamer chemistry to other encap chemistries.

Its fair to ask…Since this is a revolutionary industry changing system why not the comparisons.

My apologies if comparison videos have already been done.

Rotary is not in the same class as a CRB machine. Specifically the CCI/ CCA TM 4 (15") & 5 (20"). The CRB is a "mechanical entrainment system©" instead of air or water as "fluids" the brushes mimic a semi-solid fluid, a quasi-fluid if you will. It's not that you've been lied to, I just don't think they understood at the time, however have since realized it and now they're "precious" power structure is threatened. As Jim mentioned his 50 years. Yes, the wounds and pain runs deep for these veterans who forged forward, particularly the WRE Truck mount community. You have to understand the history to know how we got here. Look, Jim P. and others aren't particularly bad or evil, they are playing their part. It is up to us to introduce chaos for change. They will resist, however light TRUMPS over darkness. The light will always reveal the truth! ALWAYS! Even in the darkest times of human history, the light always disinfects and brings order to a broken system. Believe my friend, I live and breath it everyday!

Rotary has been know to be bad since the 80's. Dr. Michael Berry has it in his book, protecting the built environment: cleaning for health published in 1993. Do you think he did all his research in less than three years to put this book together? Shaw posted in 2003 rotary was prohibited. Even though the CRI said that rotary was "prohibited" they still continued to test. Why? Then the manufacturer blames who? YOU! Stop dancing like a puppet! It's a joke! Want to hear another.

The manufacturer recommends water rinse extraction with no disclaimer or moisture level recommendations and as soon as there is a dimensional stability or other issue, they show up and say... Ah, you used "too much water", it's the cleaners fault because that's what it says right? By the very nature of the WRE method, over wetting is inherent and not the technicians fault. Can the tech mitigate wicking and wick back, sure, but they can't stop it. Particularly if someone is telling you pressure and flow need to be high. Muscling compacted soiling, grease and oils is not general carpet cleaning or maintenance. They use carpet in these environments because of carpet's "maintenance trade-off value©". Putting it in environments like restaurants is worth the extra cost because of noise reduction, safety (slip and fall), etc. This would generally fall under "ramifications of specification" or "cost of ownership" but environments like this understand the value carpet has over all other flooring types.

for "effective cleaning to occur" is to occur. It is either Vacuuming (air) solo. Second level of intervention is Vacuuming + CRB (mechanical) w/ chemical = effective and the final level of intervention and the highest is Vacuuming (air) + CRB (mechanical) w/ chemical + WRE (water). The moisture level is determined by the entrainment method. VLM, LM and High Moisture. VLM doesn't need to be powder, it can be "Traditional Encapsulation Extraction©" although I'd say it is for dry compound peeps unless just "pile lifting" via traditional application. This is the original Whittaker model and they still promote it today as first introduced. I call it the "blow and go". Not cheapening it. This is primarily pile lifting with the single or dual fore and aft passes.

So, here's how to determine if a method or equipment is acceptable. Is it effective? How effective is bonnet (pad)? It's the least effective method, absorption. How is it efficiency wise? Not good. It's absorption and pads need to be flipped every 100 sqft and changed every 2oo sqft. So, 10 bonnet (pads) need to be laundered after a 2,000 sqft maintenance job. Does it "maximize" soil removal? No, we just covered it's the least effective. Does it minimize damage? No, it does not minimize damage. The CRB removes (extracts) the entangled, trapped and embedded dry soils vacuuming can't remove. NO WRE cannot either. Your box filter with paint filters is not proof. All methods remove soil, but we go by effective and efficient. A set of CRB brushes ($200) last around 1,000, 000, 000 sqft. Can you say that about bonnets? Let's work that cost up as well. When you add everything up. You could have bought a Carpet Cleaner America TM package that includes debris trays, etc. and the cost would be the same or less. Particularly if you look at some of the more fancier rotary types.

Again, I'm really trying to help here. I know there are people out there that care. I'm not selling anything. I don't want anyone to look at the Fast Foamer system that it doesn't help or improve their value. If you are all about muscling grease and oil off carpets. No problem. I totally get it. I'm not hating on you. That's your market. You think I'd be talking Fast Foamer if I was in that type of market. It's cut throat, dabbled in it and didn't like it. Don't take offense because I know you are hustling! I champion you and support you but we can't lie about the science. It is what is what it is. Carpet is just that valuable. Think about that. If carpet couldn't do what it does because of it's "maintenance trade-off value©". Would there be $100K TM units required? Everything has its place.

I'm going to reveal everything! Then you and others will be able to make truly informed decisions and not be herded like sheep. The fist thing out of a persons mouth that advocates for rotary and says... "its about training". That should be your first clue that someone is ignorant, stupid or just straight out lying!

Regading chemistry and how it works. I can go as deep as you want on the technical side, however I'll keep it simple and no, I'm not being simple to treat you like a child. It took me time to get here and it's all about the "one pager". Condensing the science into smaller digestible chunks.

WRE is achieved using heavy surfactant and co-solvent formulations. The surfactants are for emulsifying the dry-solvent soils (organic soils) and the co-solvents helps breakdown (dissolve to some degree since it can't be saponified) the grease and oil down into smaller components so the surfactants can emulsify the grease and oil, you know this as suspension. However, true suspension is micro particulate 10 microns or less. And dissolving, we know what that is, water soluble soils. Now, for dry-solvent soils that are heavy, aka heavy organic soils aka compacted soiling may require thermal heat to change the state of the grease to make moving it easier. This is where temperature/ heat comes in. So, the water is loaded with "thermal energy" then mixed with surfactants for TM systems correct? However, this is a very inefficient energy transfer system because that is what you are doing. You heated the water and applied it so the thermal energy would transfer to the grease and oil to make it easier to "move" aka remove. Since it's so inefficient with preconditioning, but that is when heat is needed right? Heat falls under the "mechanisms of effective soils suspension", so what's the deal?

The deal is, the power or heat is at the tip of the wand on demand. This is why WRE TM muscle the grease and oil of the carpet instead of trying to achieve "effective soil suspension". I'm not going to say it now, but I bet even the most experienced TM person on this forum can't answer this question or we wouldn't be having this conversation. You have to know that "physics" TRUMPS chemistry! There is an order, a hierarchy of intervention if you will. Whoever wrote the "principles of cleaning for textile floor coverings" wrote it based on "wet" cleaning. Again, another clue. Water = Washing. Start there and work your way through the advancements in the industry and you'll find the answer on how we went from "washing" to "cleaning". Ask, How do we reduce water usage? How do we "wash" aka "clean" more effectively? C'mon. I've provided a ton of clues. Think! I know we can figure this out.

Encapsulation formulas. These can't have high surfactant concentrations due to crystallization. It disrupts that and a very precise balance of surfactants and polymers make up the formula. Surfactants don't aren't just "wetting" agents. They are cleaners/ detergents, dispersants, foaming agents, etc. This means we have limited cleaning power which we all agree. So, what happens here is. The water (universal solvent) is "conditioned" or changed by adding the surfactants and polymers. Now the water has "elasticity" and can hold shape like bubbles. Air is sent through a sinter (mixing medium) that essentially "splits" the air and both captured by the liquid retaining the air which is "energy". The tinier and more polyhedral shape allows the bubbles to be packed really tight harnessing more energy. When this is introduced into the fiber matrix. It's instant movement unlike liquid systems. The foam allows an exponential exposure of surfactants and polymers. This is NOT effective on compacted soiling, particularly heavy like restaurants. Again, this is for the general commercial environment. It can handle water-soluble and solvent-soluble soils that are light and some moderate. But this isn't for movie theaters, arcades restaurants, etc. Truck mounts have their place. WRE has its place.

So, WRE can have high thermal or just use 60-75 degree water in most commercial built environments. Don't look at temperature as, I can feel it, it's cold water. Look at it from a chemistry perspective and look at where 60-75 degrees water falls on the Kelvin scale. Tap water has plenty of thermal energy to perform effective cleaning. It's not even needed for restaurants. It can be achieved much more effectively and efficiently with chemistry and mechanical agitation than wand stroking it. Again, not neccesarily "wrong" but wrong if no mechanical agitation (CRB) is used, sequencing or "adaptive synergy©" aka "adaptive cleaning©".

I've got the Fast Foamer system side by side a box extractor with grandi groomer agitation, box extractor with CRB agitation and others all video. I don't skimp! I know how to clean. I only used a grandi groomer because that's what is used if anything. My buddy in the video grandi groomed for agitaiton just for show. He wouldn't have agitated in the field. I trained him. I understand why he doesn't want to run a CRB, but at least he knows what he is trading off or not removing. This is the point. If you know, just say, Steve I don't get paid for that. Got it, no worries. Let's just not continue to spread misinformation. I get this business like no other. Well, here are those that know more than me and that is who I seek. These people are few and far between for me. The higher I go, the more I see I have to learn. Do you see what I see? Exactly.

The Dunning-Kruger effect is a cognitive bias where people with limited knowledge or skills in a specific area tend to overestimate their own competence, while those with expertise may underestimate their abilities. What it is: The Dunning-Kruger effect describes a situation where individuals, lacking expertise in a particular area, mistakenly believe they are more knowledgeable or capable than they actually are. Why it happens: This bias stems from a lack of metacognition, or the ability to accurately assess one's own knowledge and skills. The opposite side of the coin: Conversely, individuals with high expertise might underestimate their own abilities, believing that the task or knowledge is simple for everyone, when in reality it is not. Example: Someone with little experience in commercial carpet cleaning might confidently claim they could easily clean a complex soiling situation, while a seasoned cleaner might hesitate to take on a job they perceive as too simple.

Hope this helps. I won't be posting much as this is a distraction. As you can see unless it get's taken down and censored. The establishment doesn't like being challenged. Me on the other hand. It only proves my point and makes me stronger. They know my light, not only shines but burns too bright for them to control or extinguish. S0, they end up acting like petulant child. As if someone "licked the red off of their candy". I'll share more but the IICRC and CRI need to get right!

 

[Stevie B]

Who here from the old guard recalls when Host sent a rep and equipment to a Mikey's Fest in Santa Cruz , and they dramatically out cleaned all the other methods at that roller skating rink?

Nice! Start a feeding frenzy. Call in the dogs! Just show me the data? I can show you where Host has been around for longer that WRE/ TM. I can show you why they put it as the "least effective method", yet DuPont creates "capture" and Millicare used and still uses it. It has it's place. I can share two separate studies where Host and unidentified dry compound used in two schools settings out performed WRE. We can play, but you'll play by the rules!

I see ALL! Come with facts, data and science! WRE extraction cannot be used in moisture sensitive environments. It is a legitimate method. I'm not saying WRE or TM's don't have their place. This is my point. You are arguing over nothing! So, for what? Is it really nothing? I've supported your method. So, why are you attacking me? What did I say that was untrue? Nothing. But it is so ingrained in you, that any method regardless of environment or use, you automatically defend WRE/ TM. Why?

All this could really help you and your side of the industry, but you'll try to suppress it because, knowledge is power and truth trumps knowledge which means you "feel" I've stepped into your world, your arena of control and it irritates you. When I'm in the presence of power and greatness I don't feel threatened, challenged maybe but not threatened. I engage, learn and grow. Step the **** back and breathe this in. Take a long slow deep breath in and as you exhale, think/ say... please help me to understand how Steve is here to assist me. What can I learn from this? Let the universe do the rest. What is meant to be is meant to be. You are going to go through this kicking and screaming or head on with purpose. This is all your choice, not mine. Again, when I say I like you Mikey P, know that this is sincere and really think we could be good friends. You'll find people that know me, like really know me and they will tell you, that if Steve Brown said told you that, he meant it. And they will tell you, tread lightly and if they don't and goat you, question their motives.

There are much higher powers working here than just two individuals chatting on a public forum.

Final words. If you want me to leave this forum, just ask, but ask in public and I'll leave. If you ban me, do it publicly. Either way do it respectfully and as an adult and not as a petulant act. Not too much to ask.

 

[icleancarpetz]

I'm anything but Old Guard....but that's ok, you don't know me.

I'm just old

I am not mistaken you might be taller the Bill Y.

 

[icleancarpetz]

Final words. If you want me to leave this forum, just ask, but ask in public and I'll leave. If you ban me, do it publicly. Either way do it respectfully and as an adult and not as a petulant act. Not too much to ask.

Stick around my man. You have interesting ideas and concepts.

 

[Stevie B]

Where does the dirt go?

vacuuming removes 40-50% of the loose dry soil. The CRB removes another 30-40% that is entangled trapped and embedded leaving approximately 15% soluble aka binding agents. These soils are "prepared" as in separated, suspended and encapsulated within a dry brittle polymer matrix where it is now inert and harmless (non-sticky) and "deferred" to routine vacuuming. Where ongoing foot traffic and routine vacuuming manage these soils over time. This is not incomplete. This is by design and hidden/ suppressed. I think WRE particularly TM advocates knew the power of the CRB. It's all in the IICRC's S100. The clues are there. Did they do it on purpose or just not know?

So, if WRE is used and no CRB is used during the "soil suspension" phase then 30-40% dry soils which are abrasive and "fill up the pile" reducing resiliency and degrading performance will remain. You have to know the hierarchy of intervention! So, if the harmful dry soils are "managed" in the "effective pile" we satisfied the manufacturer correct on preserving performance? And if the "sticky soils" are removed, rendered non-sticky and vacuuming resumes and the carpet looks and performs. How did we not achieve the objective? Carpet is in a perpetual soiling state. Wanna guess how much at any given time soil is in carpet?

Two things on encapsulation extraction assuming it is performed correctly with proper tools, CRB TM series and at minimum an "Advanced-formulated©" encapsulant. Have you ever "post vacuumed"? Did it improve the appearance? NO Have you ever looked at a new vacuum bag used for post vacuuming? How much more soil if any did it pull out? Very little if none. At least not enough to perform a dedicated post vacuuming correct? This is because the polymer does not crystallize for at minimum 24 if not 48 hours depending on crystallinity. You got to know your shit! They lied either because they didn't know and couldn't explain it or didn't want to.

So, ask. Why? We ******* know all of this so why do I have to tell you or anyone else? Whittaker pioneered Encapsulation Extraction to replace "pile lifting" and to "manage" "residual cleaning agents" left behind form other methods included WRE (at the time was the only solution for "residues"). Now we're getting somewhere. See, Encapsulation wasn't about "limiting or postponing" "restorative" cleaning, but WRE as well since commercial carpet's don't respond to moisture very well.

However, Crystal Dry didn't have the detergency because "Advanced-formulations©" hadn't emerged. Now, I haven't got into the "Encapman" Rich G's chili and don't want to. I hope he reaches out privately and I'll bring him up to speed. But the awakening is going to be hard for him because of what his beliefs and business are built on. He may feel threatened but again, this is going to happen regardless. This has been in motion for over 4 years if not longer. If anything. Thank the CRI for being so corrupt and trying to suppress the Fast Foamer technology. At least the IICRC only has a little corruption from WRE TM bias that can easily be rectified but there is still a mess that has to be tightened up. I'm a non-voting member on the S100, yet Daryl Hagan has the chair and Richard Bodo, co-chair. I know the CRI and IICRC will see this. I'm transparent, will they be? Its carpet cleaning, what "secrets" are there?

When this goes down. ALL CRI and IICRC leadership will be seeing the same thing. I'm not here for you. I'm here for them! It's time to hold leadership accountable! They got no problem throwing anyone of us under the bus to save face and don't care how long it took you to get that account, how many feet you cleaned or how much you killed yourself for not only you family but for this ******* industry! WE DESERVE BETTER! What is wrong with that messaging?

Understand how cleaning works. It is a "process" a sequence, with leveraging mechanisms and I'm a true master when it comes to leveraging the powers that be to achieve "optimal" synergy!

I mention Rick G. only because he claims to have "advanced" the encapsulation cleaning formulation circa 2004 and I don't debate this, as much of this info is not readily available. I'd love to hear h is story to build this out (fill in the timeline) and he may be right, particularly if it was the peroxide and polymer used for such formulas. I believe he was the first to use hydrogen peroxide formulation. However, around the same time, XL North acquired Grab from Interface and reformulated it from a "well-formulated" to an "advanced-formulated" encapsulant. I'm sure Rick is one of the legends of the industry, but we have to change this Shaw B.S. he keeps repeating... "80 to 85% of dry soil can be removed by proper vacuuming". So, when you see this.

This is how it works. It says 80-85% however, this is assumed that vacuuming is performed properly, adequately and can remove 100% of the dry soil since the component is 85% dry soils, which is "theoretical" not practical. But if we look at it like a math equation. Vacuuming "can" remove up to 80 or 85% of the 85% dry soil matrix which is 85% of 85% which is about 60%. Right where the CRI puts a gold rated vacuum with NO binding agent. With binding agent the removal drops to 40-50% (max 60%). I

'll leave this here, but what about passes and rate of passes? What is optimal? Where is diminishing return come into play? Vacuuming is a method. It uses a "fluid" which is air. A vacuum is an "Air Entrainment system©" which falls under the physics of cleaning. Vacuuming is the manufacturer preferred method of cleaning as "air" is the most effective and efficient entrainment/ extraction method. So, the ones who shit on encapsulation extraction are going to get a rude awakening. So, soil has been deferred to the most effective and efficient method and your response is to hate on it. Good luck with that. I'll win every time!

If WRE could to this with grease and oil, we'd hear a different tune from the WRE community.

What do you really want to know? Which method is best? There is no "best" method. The applicable method is determined by the environment, soil type and load. Not personal bias.

When you WRE. You can rinse or flush until the cows come home. You're not getting all that soil out and you don't need too. We look at effective and efficient as optimal ROI. Who rinses carpet until the water is clear, NO ONE, LOL. I know all the tricks. Get the clean white terry towel out and I'll show you magic with your own props.

Dude. When I get done. You'll be printing this out and asking me to autograph it one day! That is no joke!

Ask yourself. As long as you have been on this forum or others. Have you ever seen anything like i've posted? I'm not looking for a fight but call in Dr. Berry, Mark Siager, Jeff Cross, hell pull Jeff Bishop out of retirement. However, this is not what I'm about. I'm allowing you access to sacred cleaning knowledge. This will never change unless we can figure out the science more than we have. I want to work with Mark and others if it will benefit them and we can make our industry better.

I apologies for not being able to deliver this knowledge any softer or gentler, however I will continue to work on my communication skills. Understand that nothing it lost on me. Ultimately, regardless of how the information is presented, there will be challengers. Particularly those that "feel" their power structure is threatens. Remember, all these "industry experts" have been saying it one way and now they have to self reflect. Ego is the ******* worst! This is the reason people are bristling up. Otherwise, they'ed be saying, WOW, tell me more Mr. Science. The ones reading this and have been following the "industry experts" won't attack me because they see someone like them trying to help them more than others. I'm not pushing or selling anything. I'm simply providing free knowledge and allowing you freedom!

Do you think if these guys knew you could collect $100 a day for free if you just walked down a certain street at a certain time of the day, that they'd tell you? Exactly. All I hear is stop telling people everything you know. In fact, a good friend use to say... Brownie why do tell all these people your secrets? They can take it and use it against you. I looked at him and I said "I wish somebody would" and before he could respond. I said, how am I supposed to get better if I have no competition? The conversation was over. Funny thing this, we are no longer friends and the equipment I gave him to sell, he used to start his own floor cleaning company. ******* Genius! He tries to **** me and I got what I wanted, LOL, someone to take my knowledge and run with it. I'm not mad at him, good for him. He can take care of him and his family. I wish no ill will towards anyone. Side note: He or anyone else will never eclipses me because I'm not competing against him or you, I'm competing against myself and trust me. That's the hardest ************ to compete against.

 

[Mikey P]

Nice! Start a feeding frenzy. Call in the dogs! Just show me the data? I can show you where Host has been around for longer that WRE/ TM. I can show you why they put it as the "least effective method", yet DuPont creates "capture" and Millicare used and still uses it. It has it's place. I can share two separate studies where Host and unidentified dry compound used in two schools settings out performed WRE. We can play, but you'll play by the rules!

I see ALL! Come with facts, data and science! WRE extraction cannot be used in moisture sensitive environments. It is a legitimate method. I'm not saying WRE or TM's don't have their place. This is my point. You are arguing over nothing! So, for what? Is it really nothing? I've supported your method. So, why are you attacking me? What did I say that was untrue? Nothing. But it is so ingrained in you, that any method regardless of environment or use, you automatically defend WRE/ TM. Why?

All this could really help you and your side of the industry, but you'll try to suppress it because, knowledge is power and truth trumps knowledge which means you "feel" I've stepped into your world, your arena of control and it irritates you. When I'm in the presence of power and greatness I don't feel threatened, challenged maybe but not threatened. I engage, learn and grow. Step the **** back and breathe this in. Take a long slow deep breath in and as you exhale, think/ say... please help me to understand how Steve is here to assist me. What can I learn from this? Let the universe do the rest. What is meant to be is meant to be. You are going to go through this kicking and screaming or head on with purpose. This is all your choice, not mine. Again, when I say I like you Mikey P, know that this is sincere and really think we could be good friends. You'll find people that know me, like really know me and they will tell you, that if Steve Brown said told you that, he meant it. And they will tell you, tread lightly and if they don't and goat you, question their motives.

There are much higher powers working here than just two individuals chatting on a public forum.

Final words. If you want me to leave this forum, just ask, but ask in public and I'll leave. If you ban me, do it publicly. Either way do it respectfully and as an adult and not as a petulant act. Not too much to ask.

Can you explain how and why you saw my Host comment as an attack?


You're not the third, fourth or 15th person to show up here with a sort of new method with a little bit of tweaks, claiming it's superiority with lots of scientific type fact to back it up..

And correct me if I'm wrong, but are you speaking about yourself in the third person?

 

[Stevie B]

I'm anything but Old Guard....but that's ok, you don't know me.

I'm just old

I know exactly who you are. The "establishment"! Question. Where's my post to your response? Censored! This is not a "public" forum, it is a controlled and closed forum. We'll get into proxy votes and power structures, sooner or later and we can follow the monies! You can't even see the corruption from WRE advocates like yourself in the S100, so let's do better. I've dismantled and dissected it all. Will rotary be removed from the S100? What representation of actual industry experts do you have that aren't corporate stooges? You have selected Daryl Hagan as chair and Bodo as Co. Yep, we can expect nothing but the same old tired cobbled garbage. The RECKONING IS COMING! Funny thing is, it doesn't have to be this way. I'm willing to provide all the support to the industry and this is the response.

I'm off this forum as it is a controlled propaganda machine! YOU NO LONGER HAVE ACCESS TO ME!

Can you explain how and why you saw my Host comment as an attack?


You're not the third, fourth or 15th person to show up here with a sort of new method with a little bit of tweaks, claiming it's superiority with lots of scientific type fact to back it up..

And correct me if I'm wrong, but are you speaking about yourself in the third person?

LOL! If you can't see the difference between me and the other 15 or so other persons then you are not listening! What "sort of new method" am I talking about? It is encapsulation extraction. Foam is nothing new! It's been refined and expanded on. And you know damn well I'll correct you if you're wrong, LOL! One thing I do know is, no one has challenged what I said to be false! Who's doing the censoring when they can't control the conversation? I'd put it back because the screenshot is going on linkedin! "We" demand transparency! "WE" DO NOT OPERATE IN THE DARK! WHAT IS DONE IN DARKNESS WILL BE BROUGHT TO LIGHT! I don't have to tell you. You know all the sayings. "Sunlight is said to be the best disinfectant"! It's called holding people accountable! Now, is that too much to ask?

As mentioned above. Your actions are Ill and corrupt! You no longer have access to me! Good day sir!

 

[Mikey P]

 

[Mikey P]

FYI

NONE of Steve B's posts were edited or removed.

 

[Cleanworks]

You'll remove me, try to censor me, because you can't control me!

Everyone is interested in new or better methods. This is what we do. We're professionals or at least try to be. When you come across as an arrogant know it all, you undo all the good work you've done before. Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking you, just a little friendly advice.

 

[Mikey P]

Thank you Ron

 

[icleancarpetz]

Drive by….look out everybody…duck!

 

[they live]

vacuuming removes 40-50% of the loose dry soil. The CRB removes another 30-40% that is entangled trapped and embedded leaving approximately 15% soluble aka binding agents. These soils are "prepared" as in separated, suspended and encapsulated within a dry brittle polymer matrix where it is now inert and harmless (non-sticky) and "deferred" to routine vacuuming. Where ongoing foot traffic and routine vacuuming manage these soils over time. This is not incomplete. This is by design and hidden/ suppressed. I think WRE particularly TM advocates knew the power of the CRB. It's all in the IICRC's S100. The clues are there. Did they do it on purpose or just not know?

So, if WRE is used and no CRB is used during the "soil suspension" phase then 30-40% dry soils which are abrasive and "fill up the pile" reducing resiliency and degrading performance will remain. You have to know the hierarchy of intervention! So, if the harmful dry soils are "managed" in the "effective pile" we satisfied the manufacturer correct on preserving performance? And if the "sticky soils" are removed, rendered non-sticky and vacuuming resumes and the carpet looks and performs. How did we not achieve the objective? Carpet is in a perpetual soiling state. Wanna guess how much at any given time soil is in carpet?

Two things on encapsulation extraction assuming it is performed correctly with proper tools, CRB TM series and at minimum an "Advanced-formulated©" encapsulant. Have you ever "post vacuumed"? Did it improve the appearance? NO Have you ever looked at a new vacuum bag used for post vacuuming? How much more soil if any did it pull out? Very little if none. At least not enough to perform a dedicated post vacuuming correct? This is because the polymer does not crystallize for at minimum 24 if not 48 hours depending on crystallinity. You got to know your shit! They lied either because they didn't know and couldn't explain it or didn't want to.

So, ask. Why? We ******* know all of this so why do I have to tell you or anyone else? Whittaker pioneered Encapsulation Extraction to replace "pile lifting" and to "manage" "residual cleaning agents" left behind form other methods included WRE (at the time was the only solution for "residues"). Now we're getting somewhere. See, Encapsulation wasn't about "limiting or postponing" "restorative" cleaning, but WRE as well since commercial carpet's don't respond to moisture very well.

However, Crystal Dry didn't have the detergency because "Advanced-formulations©" hadn't emerged. Now, I haven't got into the "Encapman" Rich G's chili and don't want to. I hope he reaches out privately and I'll bring him up to speed. But the awakening is going to be hard for him because of what his beliefs and business are built on. He may feel threatened but again, this is going to happen regardless. This has been in motion for over 4 years if not longer. If anything. Thank the CRI for being so corrupt and trying to suppress the Fast Foamer technology. At least the IICRC only has a little corruption from WRE TM bias that can easily be rectified but there is still a mess that has to be tightened up. I'm a non-voting member on the S100, yet Daryl Hagan has the chair and Richard Bodo, co-chair. I know the CRI and IICRC will see this. I'm transparent, will they be? Its carpet cleaning, what "secrets" are there?

When this goes down. ALL CRI and IICRC leadership will be seeing the same thing. I'm not here for you. I'm here for them! It's time to hold leadership accountable! They got no problem throwing anyone of us under the bus to save face and don't care how long it took you to get that account, how many feet you cleaned or how much you killed yourself for not only you family but for this ******* industry! WE DESERVE BETTER! What is wrong with that messaging?

Understand how cleaning works. It is a "process" a sequence, with leveraging mechanisms and I'm a true master when it comes to leveraging the powers that be to achieve "optimal" synergy!

I mention Rick G. only because he claims to have "advanced" the encapsulation cleaning formulation circa 2004 and I don't debate this, as much of this info is not readily available. I'd love to hear h is story to build this out (fill in the timeline) and he may be right, particularly if it was the peroxide and polymer used for such formulas. I believe he was the first to use hydrogen peroxide formulation. However, around the same time, XL North acquired Grab from Interface and reformulated it from a "well-formulated" to an "advanced-formulated" encapsulant. I'm sure Rick is one of the legends of the industry, but we have to change this Shaw B.S. he keeps repeating... "80 to 85% of dry soil can be removed by proper vacuuming". So, when you see this.

This is how it works. It says 80-85% however, this is assumed that vacuuming is performed properly, adequately and can remove 100% of the dry soil since the component is 85% dry soils, which is "theoretical" not practical. But if we look at it like a math equation. Vacuuming "can" remove up to 80 or 85% of the 85% dry soil matrix which is 85% of 85% which is about 60%. Right where the CRI puts a gold rated vacuum with NO binding agent. With binding agent the removal drops to 40-50% (max 60%). I

'll leave this here, but what about passes and rate of passes? What is optimal? Where is diminishing return come into play? Vacuuming is a method. It uses a "fluid" which is air. A vacuum is an "Air Entrainment system©" which falls under the physics of cleaning. Vacuuming is the manufacturer preferred method of cleaning as "air" is the most effective and efficient entrainment/ extraction method. So, the ones who shit on encapsulation extraction are going to get a rude awakening. So, soil has been deferred to the most effective and efficient method and your response is to hate on it. Good luck with that. I'll win every time!

If WRE could to this with grease and oil, we'd hear a different tune from the WRE community.

What do you really want to know? Which method is best? There is no "best" method. The applicable method is determined by the environment, soil type and load. Not personal bias.

When you WRE. You can rinse or flush until the cows come home. You're not getting all that soil out and you don't need too. We look at effective and efficient as optimal ROI. Who rinses carpet until the water is clear, NO ONE, LOL. I know all the tricks. Get the clean white terry towel out and I'll show you magic with your own props.

Dude. When I get done. You'll be printing this out and asking me to autograph it one day! That is no joke!

Ask yourself. As long as you have been on this forum or others. Have you ever seen anything like i've posted? I'm not looking for a fight but call in Dr. Berry, Mark Siager, Jeff Cross, hell pull Jeff Bishop out of retirement. However, this is not what I'm about. I'm allowing you access to sacred cleaning knowledge. This will never change unless we can figure out the science more than we have. I want to work with Mark and others if it will benefit them and we can make our industry better.

I apologies for not being able to deliver this knowledge any softer or gentler, however I will continue to work on my communication skills. Understand that nothing it lost on me. Ultimately, regardless of how the information is presented, there will be challengers. Particularly those that "feel" their power structure is threatens. Remember, all these "industry experts" have been saying it one way and now they have to self reflect. Ego is the ******* worst! This is the reason people are bristling up. Otherwise, they'ed be saying, WOW, tell me more Mr. Science. The ones reading this and have been following the "industry experts" won't attack me because they see someone like them trying to help them more than others. I'm not pushing or selling anything. I'm simply providing free knowledge and allowing you freedom!

Do you think if these guys knew you could collect $100 a day for free if you just walked down a certain street at a certain time of the day, that they'd tell you? Exactly. All I hear is stop telling people everything you know. In fact, a good friend use to say... Brownie why do tell all these people your secrets? They can take it and use it against you. I looked at him and I said "I wish somebody would" and before he could respond. I said, how am I supposed to get better if I have no competition? The conversation was over. Funny thing this, we are no longer friends and the equipment I gave him to sell, he used to start his own floor cleaning company. ******* Genius! He tries to **** me and I got what I wanted, LOL, someone to take my knowledge and run with it. I'm not mad at him, good for him. He can take care of him and his family. I wish no ill will towards anyone. Side note: He or anyone else will never eclipses me because I'm not competing against him or you, I'm competing against myself and trust me. That's the hardest ************ to compete against.

Customers would roll their eyes and lose interest after the first sentence or two.
Thanks for answering though.

 

[Dr. Kleen]

Nice! Start a feeding frenzy. Call in the dogs! Just show me the data? I can show you where Host has been around for longer that WRE/ TM. I can show you why they put it as the "least effective method", yet DuPont creates "capture" and Millicare used and still uses it. It has it's place. I can share two separate studies where Host and unidentified dry compound used in two schools settings out performed WRE. We can play, but you'll play by the rules!

I see ALL! Come with facts, data and science! WRE extraction cannot be used in moisture sensitive environments. It is a legitimate method. I'm not saying WRE or TM's don't have their place. This is my point. You are arguing over nothing! So, for what? Is it really nothing? I've supported your method. So, why are you attacking me? What did I say that was untrue? Nothing. But it is so ingrained in you, that any method regardless of environment or use, you automatically defend WRE/ TM. Why?

All this could really help you and your side of the industry, but you'll try to suppress it because, knowledge is power and truth trumps knowledge which means you "feel" I've stepped into your world, your arena of control and it irritates you. When I'm in the presence of power and greatness I don't feel threatened, challenged maybe but not threatened. I engage, learn and grow. Step the **** back and breathe this in. Take a long slow deep breath in and as you exhale, think/ say... please help me to understand how Steve is here to assist me. What can I learn from this? Let the universe do the rest. What is meant to be is meant to be. You are going to go through this kicking and screaming or head on with purpose. This is all your choice, not mine. Again, when I say I like you Mikey P, know that this is sincere and really think we could be good friends. You'll find people that know me, like really know me and they will tell you, that if Steve Brown said told you that, he meant it. And they will tell you, tread lightly and if they don't and goat you, question their motives.

There are much higher powers working here than just two individuals chatting on a public forum.

Final words. If you want me to leave this forum, just ask, but ask in public and I'll leave. If you ban me, do it publicly. Either way do it respectfully and as an adult and not as a petulant act. Not too much to ask.

Dude is but hurt that no one wants to hear him spout his BS. WRE… making a name for yourself… the “new guard” lol

 

[Luky]

Russ Roberts:
You guys don't know me, but as someone who has used a fast foamer, several times at churches, cube farms, carpeted worked out tracks full of drink spills, doctors offices etc, (my buddy Steve Brown is the one who has been doing all the testing with the carpet mills for Fast Foamer), this is going to hit you diaper spinners hard.
We did a side by side comparison in my garage with mill test sample carpets, and the results were the practically the same between a 570 running 9.5 flow and 450 psi with 2 dry strokes and the fast foamer with pet vac, and scrubbing it in both directions twice.
I'll see if I can get Steve in here so he can explain the difference, but just know a lot of this is probably going to go over most guys heads but it's undeniable it rivals HWE as long as grease isn't involved but who wants to clean restaurants anyway?! This system is targeted at commercial, not residential, and for the people who are worried about the lil dingleberries (carpet balls that fall out of the trays here and there), you gotta move the cord every hundred feet so pick up the one or two that MAY have come out and typically the brushes and the CRB overall stay cleaner.

You guys don't know me, but as someone who has used a fast foamer, several times at churches, cube farms, carpeted worked out tracks full of drink spills, doctors offices etc, (my buddy Steve Brown is the one who has been doing all the testing with the carpet mills for Fast Foamer), this is going to hit you diaper spinners hard.

We did a side by side comparison in my garage with mill test sample carpets, and the results were the practically the same between a 570 running 9.5 flow and 450 psi with 2 dry strokes and the fast foamer with pet vac, and scrubbing it in both directions twice.

I'll see if I can get Steve in here so he can explain the difference, but just know a lot of this is probably going to go over most guys heads but it's undeniable it rivals HWE as long as grease isn't involved but who wants to clean restaurants anyway?! This system is targeted at commercial, not residential, and for the people who are worried about the lil dingleberries (carpet balls that fall out of the trays here and there), you gotta move the cord every hundred feet so pick up the one or two that MAY have come out and typically the brushes and the CRB overall stay cleaner.

I used to love certainty of monthly, bi-weekly cleanings over at Golden Corral, Baker's Square, and Culver's. I'm talking pre-covid numbers, which have crumbled since. There were situations that I wouldn't mind to use Fast Foamer, Encap, anything that would help me to make cleaning effective. The sad part is that many restaurants don't even use vacuum
( I'm sorry to admit that) so I wouldn't be able to witness that encapsulation ensued. Fast Foamer makes sense to me for a residential, and commercial environments( medical offices, sports clubs, PT) Soil suspension and its effective removal
( WRE, HWE , or other forms) is what we strive for. Who wouldn't like to have a clean, soft and dry carpet. If we're to use a neutral cleaning solution, we can skip alkaline/ acidic game. Simple is better, right?

 

[Mikey P]

Russ Roberts:
You guys don't know me, but as someone who has used a fast foamer, several times at churches, cube farms, carpeted worked out tracks full of drink spills, doctors offices etc, (my buddy Steve Brown is the one who has been doing all the testing with the carpet mills for Fast Foamer), this is going to hit you diaper spinners hard.
We did a side by side comparison in my garage with mill test sample carpets, and the results were the practically the same between a 570 running 9.5 flow and 450 psi with 2 dry strokes and the fast foamer with pet vac, and scrubbing it in both directions twice.
I'll see if I can get Steve in here so he can explain the difference, but just know a lot of this is probably going to go over most guys heads but it's undeniable it rivals HWE as long as grease isn't involved but who wants to clean restaurants anyway?! This system is targeted at commercial, not residential, and for the people who are worried about the lil dingleberries (carpet balls that fall out of the trays here and there), you gotta move the cord every hundred feet so pick up the one or two that MAY have come out and typically the brushes and the CRB overall stay cleaner.

I used to love certainty of monthly, bi-weekly cleanings over at Golden Corral, Baker's Square, and Culver's. I'm talking pre-covid numbers, which have crumbled since. There were situations that I wouldn't mind to use Fast Foamer, Encap, anything that would help me to make cleaning effective. The sad part is that many restaurants don't even use vacuum
( I'm sorry to admit that) so I wouldn't be able to witness that encapsulation ensued. Fast Foamer makes sense to me for a residential, and commercial environments( medical offices, sports clubs, PT) Soil suspension and its effective removal
( WRE, HWE , or other forms) is what we strive for. Who wouldn't like to have a clean, soft and dry carpet. If we're to use a neutral cleaning solution, we can skip alkaline/ acidic game. Simple is better, right?

You should read the discussion...

 

[icleancarpetz]

the “new guard” lol