First oil change for TNT....

[Blue Monarch]

Kohler 20HP motor with 100 hours.

Is there any reason not to switch over to full synthetic right now?

 

[dealtimeman]

a certified kohler tech stated that kohler advocates using conventional oil instead of synthetic as the hydraulic style lifters don't like synthetic. remember they just prefer using regular oil and it is not a requirement. both cheaper and preferred by the manufacturer i would just use conventional oil.


10W-30 (Command Oil) is recommended for Command, Courage, Command PRO, Command PRO CS, Triad OHC, and Aegis engines for temperatures above freezing (32°F, 0°C). SAE-30 is an acceptable substitute if temperatures are above 50°F, 10°C. K-Series and Magnum engines should use SAE 30 (Magnum Oil) above freezing. 5W-20 or 5W-30 can be used in all engines when temperatures are below freezing. For more complete oil specifications refer to your owner's manual. For optimum performance, Kohler's special blend oils are available from your KOHLER dealer.

Synthetic oils meeting the classifications listed in the owner's manual may be used, however oil changes still need to be performed at the recommended intervals. To allow the piston rings to seat properly, Kohler recommends operating a new or rebuilt engine for at least 50 hours on standard oil before switching to the synthetic oil.

 

[Mike Draper]

You can generally tell when those engines break in as they start to use a lot less oil. Probably in the 300+ hour range is my opinion

 

[jcooper]

Kohler 20HP

Me too, I use the kohler brand oil.

 

[Able 1]

I changed my first oil after 50 hours, and went synthetic.. I might go back after what Michael posted.

I used regular old 10-30 and got 4,500 hours out of my last 25 horse liquid cooled Kohler. My last engine the cam shaft went bad.. It wasn't an oil issue..
View attachment 5295

Piston and rings were still good cylinder was fine also..

 

[BradFenstermaker]

I always stick to one brand only in TM engines.

This TNT's new engine has 10w30 Valvoline Dino every 50 hrs.

If you decide to run Kohler oil check eBay to buy by the case.

Oil is cheap and quick to change.
Fills like every wk sometimes I drain the thing.

You happy with the TM?

 

[Dolly Llama]

change it and filter every 75-100 hours and it won't matter what oil you use
Buy VALVOLINE ...accept NO substitutes and don't let anyone tell you different


My last air cooled Kohler (23hp) got over 8600 hours
My current one (25hp) has nearly 5000...still runs like a champ

VALVOLINE
VALVOLINE!!!!

..L.T.A

 

[Mike Draper]

I agree, valvoline is really the best. Last thing, check your oil every day as air cooled engines use oil.

 

[dgardner]

I have used Valvoline for decades, it's all I use.

Here's what Kohler says about oil in their engines (from their FAQ):

10W-30 (Command Oil) is recommended for Command, Courage, Command PRO, Command PRO CS, Triad OHC, and Aegis engines for temperatures above freezing (32°F, 0°C). SAE-30 is an acceptable substitute if temperatures are above 50°F, 10°C. K-Series and Magnum engines should use SAE 30 (Magnum Oil) above freezing. 5W-20 or 5W-30 can be used in all engines when temperatures are below freezing. For more complete oil specifications refer to your owner's manual. For optimum performance, Kohler's special blend oils are available from your KOHLER dealer.
Synthetic oils meeting the classifications listed in the owner's manual may be used, however oil changes still need to be performed at the recommended intervals. To allow the piston rings to seat properly, Kohler recommends operating a new or rebuilt engine for at least 50 hours on standard oil before switching to the synthetic oil.

And:

Kohler does not recommend using additives or cleaners in the oil or fuel system. Air-cooled engines operate at higher temperatures than liquid-cooled automotive engines, and additives developed for automotive use may not perform properly at higher temperatures. Oil additives can prematurely break down, altering the properties of the oil and leading to extensive internal damage or failure. Fuel system cleaning additives have a tendency to separate and turn acidic, causing damage to fuel system components. However, a fuel stabilizer is recommended in the fuel during periods of non-use (one month or more) to retard fuel deterioration.

http://www.kohlerengines.com/maintenance/faqs.htm

 

[Larry Cobb]

Michael and Dan;

You are giving out incorrect information ! (Many times the internet is NOT up to date)

Hopefully Dirk has received better info ??

Since temps in Vans now are quite hot, this is the correct info from Kohler:

View attachment 5316
If your TM manufacturer is not insisting on using 20W50 oil,

your engine life is at risk over 50' F.

Kohler recently changed the oil viscosity specs . . .

right after a MB member accused us of causing a main bearing failure.

Also automotive oils have decreased the zinc content to prolong catalytic life (per the EPA).

This causes MORE wear in our TM engines.

We carry 20W50 oil , with the additional zinc.

Larry

 

[Mikey P]

I wouldn't really call that dick Brummet a MB member.

 

[dgardner]

Larry,

Dirk's question was about using synthetic oil, not viscosity.

Kohler published the info, not me. Has their stance on using synthetic changed?

This manual for the CH20/CH640 (found on the Kohler website) is also apparently out out of date:

http://www.kohlerengines.com/onlinecatalog/pdf/24_590_27.pdf

Seems like they need to get their act together if they really have changed their guidance on oil......

Also, your pic is from a CH940/CH1000 (32.5/37hp) manual. Is there a similar change in the 20hp manual? All the ones I could find still show the "old" oil recommendation.

 

[rwcarpet]

I used Pennsoil straight 30 weight in the Genesis Ford engine. Usually every 50 hours. Always on sale at Advance Auto/Auto Zone/O'Reillys. With the new Thermalwave Vortec engine, it will be 10w/30 Pennsoil and filter every 100 hours. Out of all the oils I have tried, the engine would run quietest on Pennsoil.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I change the 18 hp Kohler on my mower every 50- hours, filter too. Like a TM it runs hard but at least it gets air. Your TM is trapped in the van, running even hotter. I'd change it every 50 hours.

 

[Blue Monarch]

Thanks for the info guys.

 

[KevinD]

Michael and Dan;

You are giving out incorrect information ! (Many times the internet is NOT up to date)

Hopefully Dirk has received better info ??

Since temps in Vans now are quite hot, this is the correct info from Kohler:

View attachment 5316
If your TM manufacturer is not insisting on using 20W50 oil,

your engine life is at risk over 50' F.

Kohler recently changed the oil viscosity specs . . .

right after a MB member accused us of causing a main bearing failure.

Also automotive oils have decreased the zinc content to prolong catalytic life (per the EPA).

This causes MORE wear in our TM engines.

We carry 20W50 oil , with the additional zinc.

Larry

According to the chart it would be 75 degrees, not 50

 

[Dolly Llama]

I've never used anything but 10-40wt

never used anything but 85/90wt gear oil in the blower either
My retired TM had over 12K hours on the original Roots 45

never had a blower fail
well....'cept once when some DUMBAZZ didn't tighten the drain plug tight ...and it ran without oil for Gawdknowshowlong

yea, I was that dumbazz


..L.T.A.

 

[Zee]

Ok, so all you smart ones: Now what the hell would you start using in a brand new Honda air cooled that goes on the tm next week?? 20-50?

I have always used 10-30 in the tm. (honda manual called for that...and yes it seems to be done at 2100hrs. Oil and filter was religiously changed at every 100hrs as the manual called for)

 

[GeneMiller]

Ok, so all you smart ones: Now what the hell would you start using in a brand new Honda air cooled that goes on the tm next week?? 20-50?

I have always used 10-30 in the tm. (honda manual called for that...and yes it seems to be done at 2100hrs. Oil and filter was religiously changed at every 100hrs as the manual called for)

. Some will get long hrs but these engines aren't designed to run in an enclosed truck. The also aren't designed to last lots of hrs. The longer your jobs tend to be the hotter and more stress it puts on the engine shortening its life. Just my belief. The synthetic oils handle high temp better for longer periods without breakdown. Stick with what the manufacture tells you just don't expect a long life. Coo the engine for a couple minutes after every job.

Gene

 

[dealtimeman]

I believe the bigger factor here is the heat and a small electric fan blowing across an air cooled engine would certainly extend its life with out a doubt.

 

[Mike Draper]

One reason guys are getting the life out of their motors is that they are getting enough airflow to keep cool and they are running in a considerably clean environment.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Dan;

In order for all of our TM engines to be approved for warranty status . . .

factory reps must check the engine under full load in a typical van installation.

Our TM's are built with open design with the engine close to the side doors, and no shrouding of engine air flow.

Even with those cooling advantages,
the factory testing at our plant always showed oil temperatures on the high end of their acceptable range.

We started using SAE 30W after the recommended break-in oil interval.

Now we have switched to 20W50 oil, that has a complete package of additives including zinc for scuff protection.

The regional Kohler factory training service rep told us that Kohler multi-weight oil is NOW 20W50 with a full additive package.

Also Larry, 85-90W gear oil is way to thin for TM blower service.

Larry

 

[Able 1]

Dan;
Also Larry, 85-90W gear oil is way to thin for TM blower service.

Larry

Meat did say he got 12K on a blower.. Would you guarantee your blowers for 12K using the oil you recommend?

 

[Dolly Llama]

Also Larry, 85-90W gear oil is way to thin for TM blower service.

Larry

too thin??
Larry, in 24+ years I've NEVER had a blower problem .
I hear of guys with blower probs and it makes me wonder what's up, cause blowers are (or should be) the most bullet proof durable lg dollar component on a TM

what's the wt of that AEON oil you sell??
gear oil seems to be thicker to me....


..L.T.A.

 

[Dolly Llama]

One reason guys are getting the life out of their motors is that they are getting enough airflow to keep cool

I know you're right, Mike.
I think the way I mount my TM in the rear contributes to their longevity too

yea, i lose floor space, but there's more room on both sides of TM for airflow .
The way some guys pack stuff around the side mounted TMs, it's no surprise to me they have heat related issues


..L.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

The real reason Larry doesn't have an RE.

no room.

 

[dgardner]

In addition to ensuring proper airflow, I think adding an external oil cooler to those engines that don't already have one would make a big difference in longevity.

 

[Mikey P]

Does one machine or company in specific have a reputation of "longest lasting motor"?

 

[dgardner]

Dan;

In order for all of our TM engines to be approved for warranty status . . .

factory reps must check the engine under full load in a typical van installation.

Our TM's are built with open design with the engine close to the side doors, and no shrouding of engine air flow.

Even with those cooling advantages,
the factory testing at our plant always showed oil temperatures on the high end of their acceptable range.

We started using SAE 30W after the recommended break-in oil interval.

Now we have switched to 20W50 oil, that has a complete package of additives including zinc for scuff protection.

The regional Kohler factory training service rep told us that Kohler multi-weight oil is NOW 20W50 with a full additive package.

Also Larry, 85-90W gear oil is way to thin for TM blower service.

Larry

Larry,
Interesting stuff, but you didn't answer my question. The graph you show is not for the engine in question. Where can I find the latest info on the 20hp engine that shows the oil requirements have changed? I don't mind being corrected if I'm giving out old info, but I would appreciate being shown the new stuff.

Also, to Larry's question - Aeon PD is listed as ISO 220, and that converts to 90wt, if I'm not mistaken (and please correct me, with references, if I am....)

Edit:
Here's the table fron the URAI IOM Manual for recommended oil viscosities, and a table I fould that relates ISO to SAE gear oil weight:

View attachment 5319

View attachment 5321

 

[Larry Cobb]

Does one machine or company in specific have a reputation of "longest lasting motor"?

I would vote for the Nissan A-15 4-cyl. water-cooled with carburetor for "longest lasting" engine.

Larry