Desk Jockey
Member
They don't make them anymore.
First oil change for TNT....
- Thread starter Blue Monarch
- Start date
Larry Cobb
Member
We have a new TM with the Nissan 4-cyl engine and #59 blower . . .
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Here is the Kohler info on "any hard working commercial operation" . . .
on use of the new 20-50W oil with additive package ;
View attachment 5326
While it was developed for the 34 to 40 HP engines, the factory regional service instructor recommends for all carpet cleaning TM applications.
Larry
------------------------
Here is the Kohler info on "any hard working commercial operation" . . .
on use of the new 20-50W oil with additive package ;
View attachment 5326
While it was developed for the 34 to 40 HP engines, the factory regional service instructor recommends for all carpet cleaning TM applications.
Larry
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KevinD
Member
Just bought a case of the 20W50
I'll see if it helps any of the oil seepage through all the gaskets, the lifter noise and oil consumption in my 38hp Kohler.
I'll see if it helps any of the oil seepage through all the gaskets, the lifter noise and oil consumption in my 38hp Kohler.
Desk Jockey
Member
That don't sound good.
Desk Jockey
Member
A new Nissan? Where did you get the motor?
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
It's a chems pec new old stock TM
KevinD
Member
That don't sound good.
It has run that way for 6 of the 7 years I have owned it.
Larry Cobb
Member
They are still available in limited numbers.
Larry
Larry Cobb
Member
It will !
Would adding a little Lucas oil treatment do the same?
Doug Cox
Supportive Member
I'm over 9700 hrs. on my A15. It started to use more oil (1/2 qt.) between oil changes lately and I'm considering looking for a A15 engine to have rebuilt as a standby when needed.
Yeah, like one. How long you gonna keep trying to hawk that Vawter-new 860 before you scrap it?
dgardner
Moderator
Larry,
I had sent off an inquiry to the factory, here is what they replied. The factory has not changed their specification for the smaller (like 20hp) motors:
View attachment 5330
View attachment 5332
View attachment 5333
Desk Jockey
Member
Dan if you would ask them life expectancy with a duty load of what most cleaners will experience, 4-6 hours daily.
Vincent Feehan
Member
8200 on my 800A A 12 Nissan sold, 6400 on my 405 A 12 in trailer back, never use, 4400 on 650 Hyundai so far. I will never buy air cooled engine!
dgardner
Moderator
Will do.
Desk Jockey
Member
We had an 800A, it was our first Prochem. Loved that machine, great machine for around 200- degree machine. It sounded like big city truck when fired that puppy up. Still running four A-12's, great powerplant. I'll be sad when the replacement parts are all gone.
dgardner
Moderator
the Nissan A-Series motors are used on other things, like forklifts. Maybe that will help to ensure a parts supply for a while?
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
I have access to nissan a-12 long blocks if anybody need one or two.
dgardner
Moderator
Well, apparently there is no clear-cut answer, as you will see. In asking the question, I found the person I was talking to has a much better understanding of truckmounts than I realized....
Here was my question:
Jon,
Thanks very much for the info!
I have another question, if you don’t mind. I realize the answer will be pretty subjective, so I won’t hold you to it….
The application is carpet cleaning machines (Truckmounts). Most machines use engines from 20hp to 37hp. Typically they are loaded to around 80% of rated capacity, and are run 4 to 6 hours a day, 5 or 6 days a week. RPM is 3000-ish to 3600. They are almost always mounted inside a van or trailer, operated with the vehicle door(s) open, so oil temps run on the high side of normal. Oil and filter is religiously changed per factory-recommended intervals for the vast majority of users.
The question is what engine life would one expect under these circumstances. Many in our group report engine replacement at around 2500 hours, while a few report much better life, 4000 hours or more.
We’re trying to determine whether the 4000 hour motors are just flukes, or if that should be the expected norm, and everyone else is doing something wrong, like maybe insufficient cooling.
A side question is whether adding an external oil cooler kit (for those engines that don’t already have one) would extend engine life significantly.
Is there anything else we could do to help extend engine life?
The questions were spawned due to one of our users having to replace a CH-20 at around 2000 hours. Some users feel that is to be expected, while others feel it is way too soon.
Any input you have would be appreciated!
Dan Gardner
dgardner
Moderator
And here was Jon's answer:
Dan,
All are million dollar questions.
Fortunately/unfortunately I am all too familiar with truck mount carper cleaners, Mr. Loftin used to own Blue Line Equipment, in Prescott ( now Sapphire Scientific ) so I was involved in some of the prototype/endurance testing, not only for engine performance, but for belt wear, and component longevity. Testing was performed in an actual van as well, here in the Phoenix heat.
The Kohler Engines are used on a lot of different type applications, from mowers, construction equipment, generators, etc., and on each different application the longevity of the engine varies.
We have some mower dealers that have had engines last up to 5000 plus hours, and some at 1500 hours, I have had some generator customers that have had 7500 plus hours on an off grid application, which the engine runs at 3600 RPM, with the math of each hour equaling 80 miles, that comes out to 600,000 miles, which to me is pretty darn good, and on the case of this unit, the generator failed, and not the engine, so the engine still had some life in it.
Maintenance is generally key to engine longevity, but I have seen cases were the end users have abused the product, and last 4000 hours, and some meticulously take care of their product and only get 1800 to 2000 hours.
In performing the endurance testing on the truck mount product, I did notice that the standard grade engine oil would oxidize/thicken much more so than synthetic. If you are seeing the standard grade engine oil oxidizing/thickening, I would recommend trying synthetic.
One concern is that with synthetic you may notice more oil consumption than with standard grade oil, I would recommend on a new engine, operate it for the first 50 hours with standard grade oil, and then change to synthetic.
Some OEM’s do not recommend synthetic, and Kohler’s stand is that is acceptable, though they require the service interval be the same as standard oil.
There are so many variables to these questions, for instance has the OEM performed proper factory testing on the equipment ( I had one OEM that we performed an application review on with a 20 HP engine, and went to perform an application review on another machine with a 25 HP engine, both applications had the same blower and same pump models, so the 25 HP engine was way overkill ).
Is the end user operating the machine per OEM recommendations, ie; leaving side and back doors open, with the driver side window rolled down.
Does the end user have so much crap in the van, that it is blocking the air flow to properly keep the engine cool.
Once again, we hope this information is helpful to you. Thank you.
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Dan,
All are million dollar questions.
Fortunately/unfortunately I am all too familiar with truck mount carper cleaners, Mr. Loftin used to own Blue Line Equipment, in Prescott ( now Sapphire Scientific ) so I was involved in some of the prototype/endurance testing, not only for engine performance, but for belt wear, and component longevity. Testing was performed in an actual van as well, here in the Phoenix heat.
The Kohler Engines are used on a lot of different type applications, from mowers, construction equipment, generators, etc., and on each different application the longevity of the engine varies.
We have some mower dealers that have had engines last up to 5000 plus hours, and some at 1500 hours, I have had some generator customers that have had 7500 plus hours on an off grid application, which the engine runs at 3600 RPM, with the math of each hour equaling 80 miles, that comes out to 600,000 miles, which to me is pretty darn good, and on the case of this unit, the generator failed, and not the engine, so the engine still had some life in it.
Maintenance is generally key to engine longevity, but I have seen cases were the end users have abused the product, and last 4000 hours, and some meticulously take care of their product and only get 1800 to 2000 hours.
In performing the endurance testing on the truck mount product, I did notice that the standard grade engine oil would oxidize/thicken much more so than synthetic. If you are seeing the standard grade engine oil oxidizing/thickening, I would recommend trying synthetic.
One concern is that with synthetic you may notice more oil consumption than with standard grade oil, I would recommend on a new engine, operate it for the first 50 hours with standard grade oil, and then change to synthetic.
Some OEM’s do not recommend synthetic, and Kohler’s stand is that is acceptable, though they require the service interval be the same as standard oil.
There are so many variables to these questions, for instance has the OEM performed proper factory testing on the equipment ( I had one OEM that we performed an application review on with a 20 HP engine, and went to perform an application review on another machine with a 25 HP engine, both applications had the same blower and same pump models, so the 25 HP engine was way overkill ).
Is the end user operating the machine per OEM recommendations, ie; leaving side and back doors open, with the driver side window rolled down.
Does the end user have so much crap in the van, that it is blocking the air flow to properly keep the engine cool.
Once again, we hope this information is helpful to you. Thank you.
| Jon Uber Technical Support Manager Loftin Equipment Co. | www.loftinequip.com Phone: (602) 272-9466 x 224 E-mail: juber@loftinequip.com |
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dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
Wow good insight there and small world for sure.
Becker
Member
When I ran an air cooled vtwin I tried to change every 50 hrs. Low oil capacity.
I now am religious at 100 hrs.
....
I now am religious at 100 hrs.
....
Desk Jockey
Member
Thanks for asking Dan. 
Sounds like the oil has a tremendous impact in what's going on with the air cooled engine.
How ironic he had insight with TM's.
I've read on a lot of the lawnmower boards where engines vary drastically with in the same manufacturer. Cheap ones have too much plastic and are basically throw away's Pro models are built better but not in comparison to the older units. I always wondered whay somone can get a higher price for an old JD than a newer one. Its the fact that it can be rebuilt relatively cheaply where newer ones are throw away engines and are cheaper to replace.
Sounds like the oil has a tremendous impact in what's going on with the air cooled engine.
How ironic he had insight with TM's.
I've read on a lot of the lawnmower boards where engines vary drastically with in the same manufacturer. Cheap ones have too much plastic and are basically throw away's Pro models are built better but not in comparison to the older units. I always wondered whay somone can get a higher price for an old JD than a newer one. Its the fact that it can be rebuilt relatively cheaply where newer ones are throw away engines and are cheaper to replace.
Captain America
Member
I have tried 3-4 differnet brands od full synthetic
Mobil 1...lasted 50 hours
Pennzoil......75hours
Amzoil........150hours
I won't use anything else but Amsoil for truckmounts
And will never use regular oil for my vans.....full synthetic only..not synthetic blend
Amsoil is racing oil used by many if not most pro racers 10$ Qrt and worth every penny
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Dolly Llama
Number 5
Does the end user have so much crap in the van, that it is blocking the air flow to properly keep the engine cool.
..L.T.A.
..L.T.A.
Captain America
Member
Those air cooled engines are rated at so many 0000000.... Rpms in the life of the engine
So if you are running it full throttle for 1 hour vs 75 percent throttle it is obviously gonna run more rpms
On the life of the engine and thus the engine will run its lifespan quicker...
Some of these guys that are getting 5000 plus on there engines may not be cranking it up full throttle...
And therefore running less rpms per hour.
Also heat is reduced with full synthetic oil....which is a big wear on engines...
Cap
dgardner
Moderator
Hey Cap'n - I'm curious - how do you tell how long it "lasts"? Does something in the oil make it obvious it's done?
Larry Cobb
Member
Here is some info from Valvoline on the zinc additive that has been reduced in most oils being produced these days:
Larry
Larry
