For you non Pre Vacuum types

[Guest]

Ron,that person or persons you get that crap out of are the ones that Do Not vacuum enough period.You can give a guy the best equipment there is and still do a crap job.So put blame where it belongs,to lazy people not vacuuming.Oh and teach you're clients the importance of frequentcy or you are doing them a disservice.

 

[Ron Werner]

OK, so it is nice that you pre-vac. Personally, I pre-vac with a powerhead attached to the TM, so I can send the dry soil on a 100 MPH joyride out the door and into the truck parked away from their home while at the same time producing a negative airflow that will draw clean, fresh, outside air into the home.

But I wouldn't say that you are polluting someones home by dragging in your DIRTY ASS vacuum cleaner into their house, spreading the germs, dust mites, bacteria, mold, and maybe some deadly strain of MONKEY HERPES you picked up from the last house that you vacuumed with that POS.

Or maybe I would....

Is that a special service you provide? Isn't listed on your website.
Oh, might want to change the wording on your carpet sanitizing treatment. Its impossible to "sanitize" a carpet. Thats been a topic of discussion periodically. We can "apply" a sanitizer/disinfectant but we cannot sanitize/disinfect.

If you don't have a clear tube to see what's going on that 100mph joy ride, you'll miss a lot of it. Its no better than a bag vac, actually worse for you, its burning your profit out in the driveway.

AS for my dirty machine, I use it because it removes the soil, and it does that exceptionally well. Some how I think all the hype over what I "might" be bringing in is like the mold hype from years ago.

 

[Ron Werner]

Ron,that person or persons you get that crap out of are the ones that Do Not vacuum enough period.You can give a guy the best equipment there is and still do a crap job.So put blame where it belongs,to lazy people not vacuuming.Oh and teach you're clients the importance of frequentcy or you are doing them a disservice.

Most of those pics are from well kept homes, not trashed places, where the client has vacuumed before I arrived.

Keep bringing the excuses, haven't heard anything new yet.
If you don't want to prevac, just acknowledge that you are not removing all the soil that you could. When you've finished and the job looks great, you're only guessing that you've removed the soil.

 

[Guest]

Then you are a lousy teacher pal,and excuses?what is yours for not going back to those houses and doing it every three days,cause it really needs it,and I understand the vacuuming issue,but any compitent person can be shown how to run a vac,and if you want to be anal,that is your porogative,but dont cloud the issue with "your assumption" that it is the vacuum.By the way,maybe I can come and clean behind you and get more soil out because I dont think you are doing it right,get my point?

PS- I have a vacuum in my truck

 

[Loren Egland]

What kind of vacuum is that you use Ron? That clear container seems like it would be a good marketing tool.

 

[kelsolo]

I agree with Ron 100%. Ron gets .55sqft for cleaning carpet and one big reason he can get that is the time he takes removing all the soil from the carpeting before he cleans it.As far as I am concerned if you want to be a low end hack carpet cleaner then keep asking your clients to vacuum before you get there. If you want to be a HIGH END cleaner and make TOP money and provide a top notch service pre-vacuuming a carpet is just another step towards getting you there.

 

[rhino1]

Ron:

There is a difference between Sanitize (to make more sanitary) and sterilize. As you said, sterilizing a carpet is impossible, but sanitizing
is easy. That is probably why I have never seen carpet sterilizing, but sanitizing treatment is pretty easy to come by. Thanks for the unsolicited advice though.

I do believe I am sucking up alot more with 400 cfm than what you manage with whatever vacuum cleaner you drag into somebody's home. If I want to show a customer the dry soil I just use a nylon filter at the hose connection, makes for a good show. I don't advertise everything I do, part of delivering more than is expected.

Aside from that, not many people have seen someone vacuum with a T/M, I don't think it cost very much to run the truck an extra 5 minutes, but I probably make up for that somewhere else, maybe by not having to drag in a vacuum cleaner, changing filters, making sure it is sanitized between homes (I hope you do that.) Where do you dump the canister of dirt when it is full? Surely not in the home or the yard. Do you like getting a faceful of that stuff when you empty it, or do you wear a mask?

I think your soil removing capabilities would be severely limited by several factors such as the suction of your vacuum, the length of the roller brush or the power of a beater bar, the weight of the vacuum, the condition of your vac motor, filter, and how much time you spend per square foot vacuuming, etc. So suggesting that you are getting more soil simply because you can "see" the dry soil that you are removing and you can "see" that your vacuum is not able to remove anymore soil is due more to the fact that your dry soil removing technique is severely limited due to the tool you are using and it's condition at the time you are using it.

 

[Guest]

I agree with Ron 100%. Ron gets .55sqft for cleaning carpet and one big reason he can get that is the time he takes removing all the soil from the carpeting before he cleans it.As far as I am concerned if you want to be a low end hack carpet cleaner then keep asking your clients to vacuum before you get there. If you want to be a HIGH END cleaner and make TOP money and provide a top notch service pre-vacuuming a carpet is just another step towards getting you there.

Im thinking you are Canadian right? Listen,are you going back and vacuuming every other day or so?If not "you" are a deciever and a hack,the dirt will build up long before you and Ron show up again,so tell Mrs Jones to vac every other day min. and give her a few pointers then you can get off the hack list.And quit talking about how much money he makes, or I'm putting you in the Mikey catagory

 

[Ron Werner]

Don't know why you're going on about going back every few days to vacuum Kevin.
I show them how to do it, which direction to do it, ask about their vacuum, tell them what to check and keep an eye on, basically, give them a small course. Its not up to me to hover over them and make sure they do it. They are adults. If they don't do it, I'm back 6mths , a yr, 2 yrs, whenever, and I vacuum it again for them. Either way, I still get to clean and make money.

I did offer vacuuming service years ago. Didn't fly.

As far as a tm getting all the soil with a power head, you're guessing. Sure it will pick up more soil, but in 5 minutes, I don't think so. If you experienced pulling the fine crap out of a carpet like I have you would know the difference. Maybe the Bissel PH with a bigger motor will do it faster, I don't know. But whipping a power ahead around with a 1000cfm still wouldn't pull the soil out that I'm getting.

 

[Guest]

Don't know why you're going on about going back every few days to vacuum Kevin.
I show them how to do it, which direction to do it, ask about their vacuum, tell them what to check and keep an eye on, basically, give them a small course. Its not up to me to hover over them and make sure they do it. They are adults. If they don't do it, I'm back 6mths , a yr, 2 yrs, whenever, and I vacuum it again for them. Either way, I still get to clean and make money.

I did offer vacuuming service years ago. Didn't fly.

As far as a tm getting all the soil with a power head, you're guessing. Sure it will pick up more soil, but in 5 minutes, I don't think so. If you experienced pulling the fine crap out of a carpet like I have you would know the difference. Maybe the Bissel PH with a bigger motor will do it faster, I don't know. But whipping a power ahead around with a 1000cfm still wouldn't pull the soil out that I'm getting.

It is not soil Ron,its the degrading latex backing from you wearing it out.

 

[Dolly Llama]

If you want to be a HIGH END cleaner and make TOP money...

not that i GAS whether a dude vacs compulsively or not, I would like to make a point about "top" money..in particular.. profit

Cleaner "A", vacs to oomph degree, pre-spray, scrub, flush/rinse extract, groom.
Cleaner "B" speedy squirt 'n suck soap dispenser

lets assume both have similar/same costs of doing biz


speedy squirt'n suck charges .20sf and does 1000sf pr hour

Mr Most Thorough CCer Ever, gets .55sf but can only do 100sf an hour

guess which one generates "top" money?

to me, it's not about being a hack, or being the greatest CCer ever.
it's about finding a way to make happy carpets and smiling peeps that call you back year after year and refer you to their friends and family ....WHILE staying profitable


..L.T.A.

 

[Guest]

Amen,and Ron,I am just razzing

 

[Ron Werner]

I'm aware of that Larry. You're absolutely right. If you want to make top dollar in profit, don't do what I do.

And if I was getting latex Kevin, it would be white in the canister. Really nasty on carpet right by a south facing window. The UV just kills the carpet and the latex just comes out like crazy.
No worries Kevin 8)


When I was with The Bay I watched a guy try to teach me to clean furniture using one step cleaning, ie throw the emulsifier into the porty tank and go for it. He turned to me and said, "I would never do this for one of my own clients." But he made the custy happy, collected his bucks and was out of there in 30 minutes.

I don't even want to come close to looking like that in my busn. Some guys know how to clean 1000sf in 1hr. I don't and I don't want to know.
My dad taught me that if a job is worth doing, its worth doing right. It might not make much profit, but I'm going to know it was done RIGHT.

We keep harping on this board about doing better work. Greenie designs the greenhorn to flush the carpets better. New uph tools, new stair tools, THE BIG V and AT! high flow, high heat, 175's and Sebos or Whittakers etc etc etc And yet the simplest thing we can do to clean the carpet, which also happens to take the most time, is dry vacuum and few if any pay it any mind. Why are we bothering with all these tools if the goal is just to make it look good enough for the client??

If I wanted to operate a busn like that I would never invest in the "best tools", why bother when the old tools did just as well. They fluffed the carpet very nicely. Just buy the ones that make the physical work easier, like a glide, sliders, lift buddy, Oh sorry, cleaners like that don't move furniture.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Ron, I'm really not disagreeing with you

However, the reason we should use better hi-quality tools/equip is to do better work more efficiently

more efficiency = more profit


..L.T.A.

 

[jerry ACC]

I believe Pre-Vacuuming sets us apart as Professionals, and the Hack who wants to rush thru the job and pad his wallet.
I too can try to believe my 400-500 PSI wand is removing the dry particulates, when in all honesty it is just pushing them into the primary backing, where once dry they release and continue to cause wear to the fibers at their hard to reach base.

Maybe once I get so busy that I'm doing way more jobs than I can handle in a day, stressing and running around to cut corners to get to the next job, I too will quit giving my customers a PROFESSIONAL service.

NOT !!!


Residential Question to IICRC
Question: What are the steps that I can expect a certified professional to take when cleaning my carpet?

Answer: The principles of carpet cleaning are listed in the S100 Standard and Reference Guide for
Professional Carpet Cleaning, last published by the IICRC in 2002. The principles of carpet cleaning include:

Dry Soil Removal - thorough vacuuming using an upright vacuum with brush agitation and high-efficiency
double-lined collection bag, or a final filter, to remove up to 99% of particles at 1 micron.

Today now more than ever, pre-vacuuming is emphasized as a key principle when it comes to clean and healthy carpet.
The goal of the textile cleaner is to remove any unwanted matter that is foreign to the carpet's construction.
IICRC S100 states " ... professionals must locate, identify, contain, remove and properly dispose of unwanted
substances from an environment or material." Dry particulate soil accumulates in the carpet. This dry soil left
to build up damages the carpet fiber creating abrasion/ shading issues which depletes the carpet life. A heavy
soil load present in the carpet can contribute to poor indoor quality.

Before professionals apply any moisture to a carpet, hair, lint, dust and particulate soils must be removed
by vacuuming. Professionals must vacuum carpet extensively in order to achieve carpet that is as clean and
healthy as scientifically possible.
Professionals should use the best-rated equipment to remove dry soil in carpets. Textile professionals should
be aware that pre-vacuuming sets the whole tone of the job. You must have excellent attention to detail; go
after the dust and lint around the carpet and in corners. Vacuuming all of the carpet exhibits the desire to
do the work correctly and to achieve above average results.

 

[Ken Snow]

what's the iicrc? :-)

Well said larry, it really is all about satisfying customers and creating repeat and referral business, regardless of whether there are 5 or 25 steps to one's process. Why bother insulting & putting down others who do things different?

 

[gasaxe]

if im not removing soil by hwe then how in hell does that water get so so dirty???? :? :?

 

[Ron Werner]

if im not removing soil by hwe then how in hell does that water get so so dirty???? :? :?

Dry vacuuming removes the soil OUT OF the carpet, accounting for, hopefully as much as 80% of the soil. We'll never achieve that, but its the goal.
Now that the dry particulate is removed, Steam Cleaning will remove the soil that is ON the carpet fibres, the remaining 20%

Well said larry, it really is all about satisfying customers and creating repeat and referral business, regardless of whether there are 5 or 25 steps to one's process. Why bother insulting & putting down others who do things different?

Ken, sorry you feel that way but if you think we are insulting you, might want to take another look at how you really feel about your work. All I'm doing is pointing out what is in the carpet and what is being left behind when only HWE is preformed. Its up to each person to evaluate what kind of job he, or she, wants to do. After seeing what I see every day, I cannot in good conscience, do anything less.
Its the same feeling most guys get when told by V/AT owners that our smaller tm's aren't doing the job :wink:

if I did all that pre-vacuuming I would not be able to be at the club @ 2pm every day.

trick is to train your customers to do before you get there and move cars out of drive way.

on the other hand all my high class high end clients have maids that vacuum every day

Most maids only give the job a surface clean. Most homeowners the same.
Hasn't been said many times on the board that we need to come into the job with equipment the client isn't likely to have. Even the jobs where my clients have a Dyson, or similar machine, I still pull up significant soil. THEN I show them how I vacuum. The next time I'm in, I still prevac, just to be sure, as well as what everyone knows; you can always get a little more out.

Ron, I'm really not disagreeing with you

However, the reason we should use better hi-quality tools/equip is to do better work more efficiently

more efficiency = more profit

..L.T.A.

Yes more efficiency, but even with a V that crap is being left in the carpet if its not removed before hand. Dave Rampage apparently vacuums "after" hwe, he'll NEVER remove the dry soil, as much as he likes to think he is. All that stuff needs is a little dampness.

Profit , yes. But inthe past 30 yrs the move has been to replace more and more carpet. WHY, because of very profitable carpet cleaners not removing enough soil and the carpet dies prematurely or the homes are becoming "ill".

SO! What we really need is a HIGH EFFICIENCY Vacuum cleaner, 10 x better than what's currently on the market.

Hey, John (Mytee) , here's your next machine to build.

 

[gasaxe]

your never gonna build something that plugs into the wall that has the vaccum capacity of a pd blower. PERIOD..... even if it has a 100 ft of hose on it.

 

[Ken Snow]

the only thing being discussed is what is removed before cleaning, when a real test woulld entail vacuuming half the area, then cleaning and just cleaning the other half area, followed by a few days later vaccuming of both areas separately to determine if there really was a difference in the removal. Try it sometime.

 

[Ron Werner]

the criteria for that test Ken, would be having a vacuum that you know what you extract. With most vacuums you have no idea what was in there to begin with or what was left behind. So whether it was vacuumed before of after, you'd still be guessing.

I'm not so sure TM vacuum would be needed to build a better vacuum. There's plenty of suck in a 2 stage vac motor, or a 3 stage. Its all in the design, the airflow, how restricted it is with the filters and such. Aren't house hold vacuum cleaners all using single stage?

 

[Ron Werner]

your never gonna build something that plugs into the wall that has the vaccum capacity of a pd blower. PERIOD..... even if it has a 100 ft of hose on it.

But you would still be only guessing as to whether or not you removed as much soil as was possible.

 

[Wayne Miller]

If you don't see the value in a good dry vacuuming try wet cleaning a potting soil spill.

How fun is it to remove pet hair from that sofa you just presprayed? Ever said, "Chit, I should have vacuumed it first" when you can't get if off your hands, let alone the upholstery?

If you've ever plopped your wet arse in the dry sand and tried wiping it clean with a damp towel and you have half a brain you'll switch to a dry one.

It ain't rocket science, it's the cohesive property of water. Stuff sticks together when it's wet.

 

[Dolly Llama]

your never gonna build something that plugs into the wall that has the vaccum capacity of a pd blower. PERIOD..... even if it has a 100 ft of hose on it.

But you would still be only guessing as to whether or not you removed as much soil as was possible.

it's not the super suck of a PD blower, nor the guessing of what's removed.

it's the roll brush and/or beater bar on an upright that makes it's superior at removing dry soil better than mega suck alone

..L.T.A.

 

[Mikey P]

Its a damn good thing that most home owners are twice the home cleaning hacks that we could ever hope to be.


Most are just glad you removed the stuck Pork Chop from the family room carpet.

 

[JFRASER]

Jerry you have been in the biz for 2 years. add 8 years to that and then you can start calling others hacks. Everyone here has seen and knows what a vacuum does, they remove soil, so does a washing machine. I prevac because i think it works well for me but to each is there own, and the IICRC is just a guide its not perfect.

 

[Ron Werner]

it's the roll brush and/or beater bar on an upright that makes it's superior at removing dry soil better than mega suck alone
..L.T.A.

a beater bar on a bag upright will still leave you guessing

Jerry you have been in the biz for 2 years. add 8 years to that and then you can start calling others hacks. Everyone here has seen and knows what a vacuum does, they remove soil, so does a washing machine. I prevac because i think it works well for me but to each is there own, and the IICRC is just a guide its not perfect.

It might not be perfect and is only a guide, but dog gone when you follow those guidelines if the carpet doesn't turn out just perdy!

 

[Papa]

Never mind.