Help me guess where my 80º went.

[Mikey P]

Used the Steamway Powermatic 2100 today for just the 2nd time other than warming it up in the parking lot.


First time I used it it was popping sizzling heat in the 250º arena.

Today it would not budge above 170 º.

The burner is firing with every trigger pull.
The Kero tank is full.
The thermostat will shut off the burner up til 150º but from there it stay on as well as as the red solenoid light.
Unit as only 64 hours on it.
I have not messed with anything other than oil changes and a 2.5 conversion.
500 psi with a 04 or 020 wand yields the same results.


meAt's first guess is that it needs to be descaled.
Olson's in the thermostat has gone bad.
I'm hoping it's bad fuel. I did buy new stuff since the last (successful ) time I used it and the kero is not as clear as meAt says it should be.
I'll try Diesel in it tomorrow.

If that ain't it I'll descale it next week.


Any more guesses?

 

[Jayhawk2218]

The only other thing would be the brushes, but you are getting some heat. If it was the brushes I'd think you wouldn't hsve any.

 

[Mikey P]

What brushes?

 

[Jayhawk2218]

In the kero heater. Been many years so couldn't really tell you how to change them.

 

[John Watson]

Thats why we phased out the PowerMatics, Look at them crosseyed and the SOB limit switches changed. Henry Keil the mastermind behind the powermatic was on submarines, he designed saftey switches for the safety switches that already had safety switches. I spent hours on the phone with Henry.....

Sorry I can't help you, Last one I worked on was in 83

Burner motor brushes????? They had electrodes not brushes and it seems to be firing already just not reaching max temp..

 

[Mikey P]

Does on "Submarines" mean on drugs?

 

[Guest]

Im guessing the thermo too.

 

[John Watson]

On submarines means that Henry was an eletrical engineer on a sub that went underwater. Henry, himself told me water and elec don't mix then add hi temp and under pressure is why so many safety swiches. Water & flow, heat & temp, pressure, Hi & lo, Then they added kerosene to obtain the high heat..

 

[bob vawter]

Did you turn it on....?

 

[John Watson]

Oh, when everything was working perfect they run so nice. 20 degrees below, The Northern Lights dancing accross the Alaskan Sky, The roar of the Wayne burner as someone squeezes the trigger, The white flame shooting out the exaust almost 3 feet and some stupid ass like me forgets and gets to close with my polyester pants. (This was the early 80's and poly pants were the thing for water damage. Cotton stayed wet, poly would feel dry in minutes after packing out flooded carpets when we use to pull them.)

 

[Lyman]

You should be able to hear the selonoid click, there is a way to check all of them. But I forgot how to but remember they are a pain.

 

[Dolly Llama]

it's not the thermostat.

The thermostat is working if shutting off and on below 150.
It's not the fuel solenoid or flow switch cause it's firing with when wand is triggered

Mike's problem is the heater will continue to burn when he triggers the wand, but temps never get above 150.
so it's not the t-stat, solenoid or FS

I suggested a descale first, cause it's the "easiest" 1st step.
The only thing different he's done from the last time he used it and got screaming heat, was change the fuel.
(you SURE it wasn't some treehugger approved juice?)

because you didn't touch anything since last time..

check/do the easy things first;




check to make sure the air band didn't vibrate and close.

buy K-1 kero or try diesel fuel...REAL diesel fuel like at a truck stop, not that veggie tree hugger crap
(it will take a couple minutes to burn off the fuel that's in the lines before you'll be burning the new fuel)
Or better yet, bleed a cup or more out of the bleeder valve.


descale

check fuel pump PSI....going from memory, I think it should be 105 psi

the other stuff is more complicated and not so fun and easy.
it involves loosening the burner assy so you can see if the fuel jet nozzle is clogged/fouled and not spraying right


side note, plug in the heater to an extension cord.
That way you can avoid some of the noise levels , cause you won't have to run PM at 2600rpm to create enough volts from the generator to run the burner.
The burner runs on 110, so just plug it in, you'll only need to run the motor at 1500rpm or less to run the Cat pump.

come to think of it, plug in the heater to an extension cord, leave the TM off and turn on the heater.
You should hear a fan kick on with you turn on the heater


..L.T.A.

 

[AshleyMckendree]

Do you actually use this? Do you put it in the back of your Vortex?

 

[Al]

Jayhawk is talking about the brushes in the generator, but that's not your problem since your heater turns on when you pull the trigger


Here is your problem

make that 2 shirts medium and a couple vac tat's for my Jeep.....pleeeeeez 8)

This worked for us now our heat is better than ever

on second thought, it may not be your problem because your heat kicks on but it's still good info and worth the Tat's

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

IF Al is right, then just change that flow switch to one of these from General Pump. They work flawlessly:

"TMT" FLOW SWITCH
Tri-magnet technology in-line flow switch.
Features:

* Microswitch technology eliminates reed switch
* High pressure in-line flow switch
* Activates with as little as .5gpm flow
* Can be mounted in any position

Specifications:

* 5000 PSI operating pressure
* 12 GPM Maximum
* 180°F maximum temperature
* 48", 18 awg lead length
* 3/8" FPT inlet
* 3/8" FPT discharge
* GP Number - 100934

 

[Al]

Meats got it 8) He fixed mine from his desk before...........lol

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

I don't know what type of probe for the thermostat Steamway uses, but many pressure washer style heaters use a probe in-line coming out of the top of the heater coil. These scale up fast and will cause what you are experiencing.

In that case you need to change to a well style probe. It never comes in contact with water. Hotsy will set you up with very nice one. Plus, they just slide in the fitting with a set screw to keep it in place, so changing the thermostat on the fly is easy.

A better thermostat and a low flow actuated tri-magnet flow switch makes working with a propane or kero heater a joy to use.

 

[Dolly Llama]

The heater is firing like it's s'posed too, fellas.
so it's not the usual suspects like flow switch, solenoid, etc.

the problem is, it continues to fire, but doesn't make hot-hot water.
It's unlikely the t-stat temp prob is the prob, cause he'd still get mega hot water, it just wouldn't read the temp correctly.
Mike has a lie detector, so he knows it's not an erroneous temp reading.

not much left it could be

fuel
air mix
weak fuel pressure
fouled/restricted burner jet nozzle
scale in the burner coils
Scale may be the most unlikely w/only 65 hours, but none of us knows what kind of crappy soap the place he bought from used.
and it's an easy step after fuel and air band adjustment is ruled out



Al and Mike (and everyone else that runs a PM).....
do your self a favor and buy the direct replacement after market flow switch from Jeff at Steamway Express in Zoarville Oh.
Ever after I pitched the spring in the stock FW, i still had intermittent issues with low flow tools.
The electronic FS Jeff sells cured ALL those issues for GOOD.
It's a direct replacement, nothing to do but remove the old one and THROW IT AWAY, then put the new one in.

final note, Mike, if troubleshooting the "easy stuff" first doesn't cure the ills, call Jeff at SW Express before you pull the burner.
He's my "go to" guy when I need advise/guidance. Great guy and straight shooter
Buy the flow switch too....cause you WILL have problems with the stock FS sooner or later.....guaranteed


Steamway Express
www.steamwayexpress-ohio.com

3422 New Zoarville Rd NE
Zoarville, OH 44656
(330) 859-1011


..L.T.A.

 

[Steve Smith]

When you need to descale, you will usually get extremely high temps due to the lack of volume(flow), through the coil.

Sounds like the burner is working properly, but can't keep up with the flow?

Is the three way valve set between warm-up and output to solution hose?

 

[Mikey P]

Funny you should ask. Today I attached my PC uph tool to it to check how much heat I could get from a low flow tool.

On the medium pressure setting it was surging and farting to I put it on low and it got up to 250º!

meAt suggested I try and set the High pressure to 500 and run it that way but no go.

Is it normal for Powermatics to take a while for the pressure to settle back in place after you mess with the 3 pressure choices?

I still dont get more than 170º on Medium pressure (500) with a 06 wand.

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

Are you running the unit at full throttle?

 

[Mikey P]

yes

 

[Dolly Llama]

On the medium pressure setting it was surging and farting

what do you mean "surging and farting"?

Is it normal for Powermatics to take a while for the pressure to settle back in place after you mess with the 3 pressure choices?

no
have you greased the Paraplate unloader valves?

I still dont get more than 170º on Medium pressure (500) with a 06 wand.

man, this is a stumper.
You can get heat out of the low pressure valve even when turned up to 500psi, but can't get heat out of the med and or high pressure??

adjust hi and med pressure unloaders to 500psi
adjust low pressure valve to 500psi

bucket test flow on all three settings with your 06 jetted wand and see how much water runs from each


..L.T.A.

 

[Carpet Cleaning Fool]

The Powermatic 2100 doesn't use blower exhaust to pre-heat the water box does it? Switching to 2.5 outlets may have reduced backpressure on the blower causing less heat.

Otherwise wtf?

Cloggeded fuel strainer or filter?

Dirty fuel nossel?

Air fuel mixture?

What color is the smoke comming out the stack? Black smoke indicates not enough air, white smoke indicates too much air. The burner exhaust gases should be clean.

 

[Greenie]

I think Steve Smith nailed it, Mikey is bypassing a steady stream of water, basically the 231,000 btu heater can't keep up with the high unrestricted flow of the bypass AND the tool. Get that 3 way straightened out.

Either that, or Meat is on the right track, there may be a fuel pressure/fuel volume issue, and the fuel pump is UnderDelivering. Is there a fuel filter/strainer that could be gunked up?

Did he say check fuel pump PSI....going from memory, I think it should be 105 psi !?!?!

I was thining it's more like 5 psi, not 105.

 

[Mikey P]

Well I didn't do squat to fix it but Demein has been using it all week and he says it's spitting flames.

 

[Dolly Llama]

I think Steve Smith nailed it, Mikey is bypassing a steady stream of water, basically the 231,000 btu heater can't keep up with the high unrestricted flow of the bypass AND the tool. Get that 3 way straightened out.

if the 3-way was jacked up that much, he'd notice a lose of pressure.
Also, if the 3-way was leaking that much, the burner wouldn't shut off when he released the wand trigger cause it would still be reading water flow.
My descale suggestion had nothing to do with flow.
It was for the burner coil efficiency .
I figure you know that a heavy scale coating acts as an insulator and reduces heat transfer efficiency

Either that, or Meat is on the right track, there may be a fuel pressure/fuel volume issue, and the fuel pump is UnderDelivering. Is there a fuel filter/strainer that could be gunked up?

Mike and I have discussed that over the phone.
The fuel pressure wouldn't be terribly hard to check if you had the gauge.
There is a filter on the burner jet nozzle (a sand stone filter) actually I 'think" it's part of the nozzle jet if i recall.
but it's a PITA to get to the nozzle cause it involves disassembly

Did he say check fuel pump PSI....going from memory, I think it should be 105 psi !?!?!

I was thining it's more like 5 psi, not 105.

Yes, i did say 105 psi.
it's not the electric "gasoline" fuel pump were talking about, GreenOne.
it's the Wayne burner "shaft driven" "kero" fuel pump.
and yes, it's 105 psi.
You need a fair amount of PSI to atomize the fuel thu the jet nozzle and get some serious flame in the fire box
matter of fact, you can adjust the PSI well past 120 with a turn of the psi adjustment screw.

side note; The same Wayne burner used is the same one that's used in fuel fired hot water boiler heating systems.
(home hot water base board heat, not old fashioned steam radiators)
I bought an igniter for the re-TIRED PM once at the local HVAC supplier and saved a few bucks


Since vEEgs had mega heat before, then didn't, and now has mega heat again.
I'll chock it up to OPERATOR ERROR and figure he just didn't know wtf he was doing......

Damian must of found the red rocker "on-off" switch of the front panel...


Yo vEEgs, it's the little red thingie on the right in this pic
Mash on the top part of it when you want heat.
mash on the bottom part when you want to stop
:mrgreen: :mrgreen:

..L.T.A.

 

[Jeremy]

Pump the bulb for 4-5 minutes while your wand is triggered... Fuel probably gelled on you.

 

[Greenie]

how'd ya get kero to "gel" in Cali?

well...Mike...get Demien to report back!

 

[Jeremy]

Try it... I just might be right.