Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Especially if it's properly anodized.
HydraMaster CDSxDrive Overview from the Experience
- Thread starter Mikey P
- Start date
Total_Rookie
Member
So instead of insisting on better materials, you choose to settle? Why not just build it 100% the first time, and be done with it? Imagine a xDRIVE in a Diesel Sprinter... I want solid equip that's going to last the same amount time of host vehicle.
Cleanworks
Moderator
Joe, I don't what you are basing your judgements on. Maybe you saw one neglected Hydramaster somewhere and think they are all like that. Hydramaster cds has been one of the most popular tm in my area and we always have 1990's models coming up for sale in good shape except for the truck rusting all around it. If you do a proper install, meaning a good quality Rhino lining, insulate it well and keep it clean, I guarantee it will outlast any truck you put it in. And no, I don't work for Hydramaster but they can send me free stuff if they want.
My 2009 cds has had a holy waste tank for 4-5 years now. I'm not a regular tank rinser but I do keep the filters clean and the crud cleaned off the sides of the tank. I think dissimilar metals are the culprit but they definitely have their issues
dgardner
Moderator
Dissimilar metals and galvanic corrosion could be your issue, however strong alkaline solutions with ph greater than 9 (many nuclear presprays) will also attack aluminum, even anodized. If your waste tank spends a lot of time filled with highly alkaline waste then chemical attack is likely.
Bob Pruitt
Member
This makes sense to me because I never had issues with Hydra Master waste tanks but we were cleaning mostly nylon carpets and our chemicals weren't as high ph. This has become an issue generally with aluminum waste tanks so I am wondering why Hydra Master hasn't switched materials to Stainless Steel. These are the things that make die hard Hydra Master Owners consider other options...in my case Butler.
The Great Oz
Member
Chris, It's ALL about rinsing the tank. Our techs rinse the CDS tanks at the end of every shift. Ten years later the tanks are close to new inside.
Cleanworks
Moderator
The problem with stainless steel is it will probably add to the cost and to the weight of the unit. Stainless steel will corrode just as fast if you use dissimilar metals or high ph products. The aluminum waste tank I am currently using was manufactured in 1984. No corrosion in sight. Most corrosion will be from operator error. Bolting things to the tank using steel screws, putting galvinized steel fittings, etc. With the new modern cleaning chemicals available today, there is no need for so called "nuclear" chemicals. Instead of trying to burn off soil, maybe try scrubbing with a crb or rotary tool. Make sure you dump your waste tank at the end of every job. Don't leave it overnight. I don't think manufacturers use aluminum because it is cheaper, it's a lot more versatile, lighter and performs well when used as directed.
Bob Pruitt
Member
Maybe the alloy has changed or thickness with recent waste tanks? I am hearing a few guys complain about this issue with newer machines...not new but not 32 years old machines. Stainless seems better than aluminum for something that is holding water like waste tanks and better than plastic for fresh water tanks. IMO.
1984... is the rest of your truck mount that old? I had a couple of really good truck mounts in 1984... very well made.
Cleanworks
Moderator
The waste tank is all that remains of my original truck mount. It is just so well built, I have transferred from truck to truck. It's on its fourth truck now. My old Hydramaster had aluminum tanks as well. (1991) Never had an issue. I have a 1990's era Steamway tank sitting in my driveway ready to go into another truck. You're right, I seem to be hearing it on newer trucks. I don't know the specific alloy that my tanks have been made of but normally it's 3/16 marine aluminum. It has to be the right alloy or it can get brittle with salts and age. My portable machine is all aluminum and no corrosion to speak of. All of the fittings are brass or plastic. It's possible the manufacturers are cheaping out, wouldn't be the first time but from one alloy to the next, how much could you actually save? The frame on my refurbished Steamway is all unpainted aluminum as well. looks as strong as the day it was built.Maybe the alloy has changed or thickness with recent waste tanks? I am hearing a few guys complain about this issue with newer machines...not new but not 32 years old machines. Stainless seems better than aluminum for something that is holding water like waste tanks and better than plastic for fresh water tanks. IMO.
1984... is the rest of your truck mount that old? I had a couple of really good truck mounts in 1984... very well made.
dgardner
Moderator
I'm not sure the manufacturers would gain very much even if they wanted to "cheap out" on aluminum. I spot-checked the price of a true marine-grade aluminum - 5086 and your everyday inexpensive aluminum - 5052, and the difference was around 10%. On a typical tank the material savings would be less than $200.
On the other hand comparing 1/4" 5086 with 3/16" stainless (316 alloy) the stainless was north of 3 times the price of the aluminum. Ouch. And the SS (if the same thickness) is 3 times the weight as well.
On the other hand comparing 1/4" 5086 with 3/16" stainless (316 alloy) the stainless was north of 3 times the price of the aluminum. Ouch. And the SS (if the same thickness) is 3 times the weight as well.
dgardner
Moderator
I wonder if the poorer longevity of newer aluminum tanks is due to the stronger chems available nowadays - coupled with less motivation to rinse tanks out (darn kids these days.....) 
dgardner
Moderator
Doing some reading, I find that chlorides in a wet environment cause pitting and pinholes in aluminum. I wonder how prevalent chlorides are in our typical everyday chems? @Shawn Forsythe
Bob Pruitt
Member
I think 200 dollars may be enough for a company that doesn't manufacturer their own tanks to make the cheap out decision. Weight could also be a reason to make it lighter and therefore less material. 2 year warranty... 3 on the frame? Probably a combination of all the above. Atlas it isn't rust like SS...
The Great Oz
Member
Typically the stainless waste tanks use thinner metal than aluminum tanks to cut both cost and weight. They then need more interior structure to keep them from developing flex fatigue and cracks. If a big machine were being used in a box truck the weight of a heavy stainless tank wouldn't matter, and the extra cost would make sense as that machine/truck would be more likely to have a longer expected lifespan.
Or you can just rinse the tank, save some cash, and enjoy the lack of tank stench.
PS: Chlorides damage the most common stainless grades too, so if you're going to spend the money on a stainless tank, you'll have to ask what grade is being used. We have a few surplus stainless countertops and cabinets in the shop, some are perfect, some get stained by anything not wiped up immediately. One had to be replaced when it rusted just from humidity. Obviously we weren't speccing our stainless grade when we bought them, just assuming stainless steel would be... stainless.
Or you can just rinse the tank, save some cash, and enjoy the lack of tank stench.
PS: Chlorides damage the most common stainless grades too, so if you're going to spend the money on a stainless tank, you'll have to ask what grade is being used. We have a few surplus stainless countertops and cabinets in the shop, some are perfect, some get stained by anything not wiped up immediately. One had to be replaced when it rusted just from humidity. Obviously we weren't speccing our stainless grade when we bought them, just assuming stainless steel would be... stainless.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
The tank needs to be designed correctly. My 12ga. stainless combo 150/150 tank is lighter than my prochem aluminum 100 gallon tank. I can move it easily by myself, and have used it in six vans now.
dgardner
Moderator
Lee, this is one you built yourself, right? Do you have a picture you can share?
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
Somewhere. I'll take more when I pull it out of the 97 Ford to make the next switch.
This week.
This week.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
My dad did the welding (tig), I just sheared and ran the brake. My first plasma torch experience, 1984.
ronbeatty
Member
Cleanworks
Moderator
wasn't there a post somewhere on this board about an aerotech waste tank corroding recently?
ruff
Member
As someone who's had three CDS machines, the questions for me is:
Will the new CDS machines be:
Will the new CDS machines be:
- Difficult to maintain. The shaft in the old ones was hard to reach in order to grease. (For those of us that were not blessed with maintenance crew, like some in the north west.)
- Did they try to use cheap parts as they did for awhile (plastic replacing metal parts). Hard to correct a bad impression due to bad decisions. "Fool me once......".
- Will they be overly complicated. So every little thing that goes wrong will require a trip to the shop.
- Rinsing helps, but they do seem to develop issues with the aluminum tank. Would it be that difficult to give the client an option for a well made stainless steel tank, at an additional cost?
Cleanworks
Moderator
If anyone needs any Hydramaster waste tanks, there is an add on Seattle-Tacoma craigslist for several brand new Hydramaster waste tanks. From $550
The Great Oz
Member
I posted this before. If you're frugal you make your own from a piece of tubing. No more difficulty.
The plastic fittings were the same ones used by new car manufacturers. We know that we'll be replacing GM stock plastic fittings too, the difference is HM stopped using them when issues appeared, GM keeps using them.
Hmmm. Overly? They'll be more complicated than a drive shaft, but like V-8 engines, shafts aren't going to be around long.
Vacuum and heat are better than The stock CDS, even with Salsa. No matter how much testing is done, reliability can only be proven by putting hours on them in the field. Users that have a talent for breaking weak links are part of the program.
Total_Rookie
Member
How many hours have you currently logged?
dgardner
Moderator
steve_64
Member
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2012
- Messages
- 13,372
Cleanworks
Moderator
Too bad, that would come in handy in Florida right about now. Hope all of our guys out there make through the next few days,
dgardner
Moderator
No kidding. The wife's been watching the weather channel all day, it sounds pretty grim.
Bob Pruitt
Member
It's a big powerful storm but the eye has stayed well off shore so Florida should get through this OK. The Bahamas are getting pounded right now... Freeport... but the news follows the ratings... we will see what happens past Florida though.
