I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pads

[Stonegeek]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Did I say acid proof???
There's a significant difference between resistance to something and being unaffected by it. This will be my last post debating every little detail that gets misunderstood. Do some reading. Densifiers as I said "give resistance to a large range of chemicals". See links below.

http://www.prosoco.com/Documents/getfile.aspx?filekey={19CC310F-543A-4D19-AC71-8C4728079E41}


http://www.prosoco.com/ProductDetail.asp?ID={D7DF365D-82D3-4CC1-B520-E8355E0F5EB5}


You may need to copy the links and paste them into your browser. If that doesn't work go to prosoco.com
Search for consolideck LS
Take up basket weaving. I hear it's good therapy.

 

[Stonegeek]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I'm sorry MB members. I don't mean to be rude but I came here to introduce those of you open minded professionals to a product developed specifically to help you be more efficient and profitable. Most of you are asking great questions and are like me, always open to new ways to make my business better and easier. As for you GaryT. You're right. I will not be wasting a good set of pads so you can do your best to nit pick your life away behind your keyboard. Post away. I'll be ignoring you and hoping you get bored and find someone else to hassle. As for you other guys who responded to my offers, I'm happy to send you the whole system. I'll set up a live conference call so we can all talk about every detail and question you have before trying the pads out. Again. I'm really not trying to be rude I simply have better things to do than get into a pissing match on a message board. Good luck to you GaryT. I do not require your endorsement. Say what you like all you like it's a free country. Post away till your angry little fingers bleed. Cheetah pads work as claimed plain and simple. They're already being used by three of the largest companies on the planet. Do you think these types of companies build an entire stone system around a product that doesn't work??? I'll be in contact with the rest of you next week. If you haven't already, please pm me if you'd like to be on the live teleconference to "intelligently" discuss this new technology for stone restoration.

 

[Stone Dude]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

My name is Cameron DeMille, I am the one that raised questions concerning the claims about Cheetah Pads.

my first question is why would you go to a carpet forum looking for "the best" stone professionals? No disrespect to the carpet/stone guys, there are plenty of good ones out there.

I can't possibly repeat everything. for anyone that wants answers, or the lack of answers, read the original thread.

http://www.dirtygrout.com/forums/showth ... 8&posted=1

 

[Bee Busy]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

My name is Cameron DeMille, I am the one that raised questions concerning the claims about Cheetah Pads.

my first question is why would you go to a carpet forum looking for "the best" stone professionals? No disrespect to the carpet/stone guys, there are plenty of good ones out there.

I can't possibly repeat everything. for anyone that wants answers, or the lack of answers, read the original thread.

http://www.dirtygrout.com/forums/showth ... 8&posted=1

this is the last place I ever thought I'd see you...LOL
for everyone reading this...like Cam is saying...read the thread at dirtygrout.com to get open honest feedback on the Cheetah pads from a lot of skilled and talented stone restorers

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Dana, I won't lose any sleep over your little tantrum and rant at me. That is what I expected anyway. You just don't sound like a guy who can handle honesty considering the claims you make. So far judging by your reactions, you have proven that fact.

Hardeners do not add any acid resistance at all, only A TOPICAL WILL TO THAT. Fact.

They're already being used by three of the largest companies on the planet. Do you think these types of companies build an entire stone system around a product that doesn't work???

Yes. As long as the product produces passable results and makes them money. Passable doesn't cut it in my business.

 

[dealtimeman]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

The more I see these "stone pros" complain or nitpicking at this product the more I would like to try them out. I like my monkey pads as they make me money. If the cheetah pads will make me money then I want them. I don't care if that doesn't make me a "stone pro" as I am in biz to make money.

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

The more I see these "stone pros" complain or nitpicking at this product the more I would like to try them out.

Nitpicking is known by most professionals as "attention to detail." Dana is "complaining" that we actually pay attention to detail.

 

[Bee Busy]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

The more I see these "stone pros" complain or nitpicking at this product the more I would like to try them out. I like my monkey pads as they make me money. If the cheetah pads will make me money then I want them. I don't care if that doesn't make me a "stone pro" as I am in biz to make money.

I haven't tried them yet obviously so i won't critique the Cheetah's but I've seen the Monkey's in person...when u say yer in it to make $$ i have to chuckle... u obviously don't care about doing something the right way...u will eventually meet yer match with a custy who knows they just paid $$ for a shitty looking finish on their stone...
your comments remind me of someone who has been cleaning carpets with a portable and has upgraded to a M5 porty or unproven "portable carpet cleaner like a truckmount!".....but hey your in it for the $$$ right?

 

[Stone Dude]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

The more I see these "stone pros" complain or nitpicking at this product the more I would like to try them out. I like my monkey pads as they make me money. If the cheetah pads will make me money then I want them. I don't care if that doesn't make me a "stone pro" as I am in biz to make money.

this is where I make most of my money, from "carpet pros" that have attitudes like you. convince the customer enough to collect a check and you're on you're way. because you complete a job and collect a check doesn't mean you did a good job.

There are plenty of "stone pros" that can show you how to make as much money, faster, with less materials cost and provide a better finished product than you can get with the monkey pads. Wouldn't you be interested in something like that? I mean you've obviously bought into the marketing of MP, have you ever tried any other way?

 

[dealtimeman]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I have on every occasion that I have found a floor that has been damaged I have used the monkeys and have had passable results and have been paid for my services. I do not claim to be a stone pro or even claim to knowthat I know how to polish the stone. I only explain to the customer that I will try my best, and I use it as a learning experience.

 

[dealtimeman]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

The more I see these "stone pros" complain or nitpicking at this product the more I would like to try them out. I like my monkey pads as they make me money. If the cheetah pads will make me money then I want them. I don't care if that doesn't make me a "stone pro" as I am in biz to make money.

this is where I make most of my money, from "carpet pros" that have attitudes like you. convince the customer enough to collect a check and you're on you're way. because you complete a job and collect a check doesn't mean you did a good job.

There are plenty of "stone pros" that can show you how to make as much money, faster, with less materials cost and provide a better finished product than you can get with the monkey pads. Wouldn't you be interested in something like that? I mean you've obviously bought into the marketing of MP, have you ever tried any other way?

i bought the mp with the understanding that if they didnt "work" i could return them for a full refund. the customer was content with the fist job i did (even though i was not) it passed. i only have done about 15 "jobs" with the mp. if the floor is heavily damaged or uneven i will recomend they contact a company that does restoration work.

i do not charge what you charge, i do not claim what you claim. i was asked to try and fix a problem the best solution I knew how and did. period

not everyone is going to go out and buy all the materials and machinery/tools to do stone work like you have done. you are a stone pro and you take pride in your work. that is very good but some of us need to start from somewhere. and that somewhere for me was mp.

 

[Stone Dude]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

The more I see these "stone pros" complain or nitpicking at this product the more I would like to try them out. I like my monkey pads as they make me money. If the cheetah pads will make me money then I want them. I don't care if that doesn't make me a "stone pro" as I am in biz to make money.

this is where I make most of my money, from "carpet pros" that have attitudes like you. convince the customer enough to collect a check and you're on you're way. because you complete a job and collect a check doesn't mean you did a good job.

There are plenty of "stone pros" that can show you how to make as much money, faster, with less materials cost and provide a better finished product than you can get with the monkey pads. Wouldn't you be interested in something like that? I mean you've obviously bought into the marketing of MP, have you ever tried any other way?

i bought the mp with the understanding that if they didnt "work" i could return them for a full refund. the customer was content with the fist job i did (even though i was not) it passed. i only have done about 15 "jobs" with the mp. if the floor is heavily damaged or uneven i will recomend they contact a company that does restoration work.

i do not charge what you charge, i do not claim what you claim. i was asked to try and fix a problem the best solution I knew how and did. period

not everyone is going to go out and buy all the materials and machinery/tools to do stone work like you have done. you are a stone pro and you take pride in your work. that is very good but some of us need to start from somewhere. and that somewhere for me was mp.

that post makes a lot more sense, and I understand your position. However, you could have achieved the same or better results with the proper diamond pads and polishing powders. despite what you have been told, diamonds are not that expensive, are more effecient and provide better results.

My post was not a shot at you. My point is the marketing used for the MP has been nothing short of misleading. If you had the facts, the truth, you COULD use diamonds and all the "fancy" stuff without paying more.

you have all the equipment already. I demand nothing but the best from myself and my employees. If I cant complete a job to my satisfaction I wont ask for a check. My diamonds are $10 each, and I use 3 of them. I have never found the need to start below 220 grit unless I am grinding flat. the highest I go is 3500. so thats 5 grits (220-3500) most of the time you can stop at 1800.

anyway, 5 grits at 3 a piece. thats 15 pads. $10-$14 each. thats $150-$210 for a set of resins.

polishing powder? 5lbs will hold you over for a good while. thats about $60 bucks.

a case of polishing pads is $25

now we are at $295

Mp are $75 each? 400, 800, 1500, 3000, 11,000.

theres $375 right there. Not to mention their hardner, and the fact that youre supposed to use diamonds in the first place before the monkey pads, according to the instructions on their website.


I dont sell diamonds, I dont produce diamonds. I am not trying to sell a product, I am only pointing out the BS.

using diamonds the same way you use MP requires no more skill, it can be taught. there is a small eprcentage of problmeatic stones, but when youre starting out you wont want to do those anyway. over time you will become more experience and advance from there.

if you have diamonds in the first place, why would you even want monkey pads.

 

[floorguy]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

you can buy the diamonds...but what about the machine???

even with the cimex, i had to add some weight...

i wouldnt want to dare try it with a 175...with a planetary on it or not....

sure sure the "supplies" are easy enough...its the stuff to use those supplies....kinda like carpet cleaning in that way.....cant use a 175 to rub in some TM type prespray right??

 

[Stone Dude]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I am not talking about grinding, just diamond honing and polishing.

Let me set the record straight; I have a Cimex converted to 220 volts, that I run with close to 300 lbs on it. I PREFER to use the swing machine.

whoever told you that you needed a planetary to use diamonds is an idiot.

you can be VERY productive with a 175 rpm swing machine and diamond abrasives.

I have 4 swing machines, two of them are Hawks. 1 of them is converted to 220 for grinding. the other one has no housing on it. I can swith between 21", 17" and 13" and get to the wall with each one. I use a 35lb drive plate, with no extra weight to diamond hone and polish.

again, MISLEADING and incorrect information has led many people to believe its very difficult.

people in the stone industry that do not want to share secrets also make it seem hard. they dont want competition. I am all for sharing information and helping people get started on the right track. I am speaking at Stone Expo in January and will be doing a seminar on stone refinishing techniques etc. I am not selling anything, I have nothing to sell. I am sharing information. I want to put a stop to this nonsense that stone refinishing is nearly impossible.

dont get me wrong, some techniques, stones etc. only come with knowledge and experience but the MAJORITY of stone refinishing can be done PROPERLY with the equipment you already have.

dont let someone tell you its raining while theyre pissing on your leg.

 

[Gary T]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

All you really need is a 1.5 hp 175. You can do it with a 1 hp but the 1.5 is better. You can get a used one for what $150.00? You do not need planetary.

I have a $7500 4 hp 220v Klindex with a planetary. I also have a hawk 1.5 hp 15" 175. Guess which one I use more. The cheaper smaller one. Get a weighted drive plate and you're good to go. Need more weight? Bolt a threaded pipe flange to the top, thread a 6" pipe and you have a unicorn kit. Go buy some cheap weights from Sports Authority.

There you go believing the crap that you need some expensive machine to do stone work. Where'd you hear that? From a Stone guy? Nope. From some BS marketing. You can use the exact machine they recommend.

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

And as its been pointed out to me many times by many stone guys, if you are dealing with smaller areas of lippage, you can feather out with a hand polisher/grinder and metal bonds... (correct me if I'm wrong here)

 

[Stone Dude]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

And as its been pointed out to me many times by many stone guys, if you are dealing with smaller areas of lippage, you can feather out with a hand polisher/grinder and metal bonds... (correct me if I'm wrong here)

this is not preferred and can in fact get you in trouble if you are not very experienced with a hand machine. I have plenty of experience, and refrain from using metals on my hand machine.

There are ways to feather out and blend with a floor machine without using any special diamonds or equipment. These are the methods that make Monkey Pads obsolete. blending into walls is one of the things people have trouble with. My floors look the same from the middle all the way to the wall.

swing machines are better than planetaries because you can get right up to the baseboard and udner the toekick. planetaries are not very good for edging, and dont fit under toekicks.

on large jobs I edge with my rotary and do the middle with my planetary.

theres no way in hell Monkey Pads can be remotely as effecient as diamonds, provide the same level of clarity and quality product, or compare in price.

 

[alazo1]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I got a call from this guy about a month ago.

He is a fabricator and got into trouble. He really wanted a job for a bunch of kitchen countertops. The homeowner also wanted the lippage for some of his marble tiles elimanated. The dude said yeah sure no problem, I'll throw that in. He got the job and went to townn on 800 sft with a high speed grinder and some pretty aggresive metals. I told him an approximate cost over the phone. He never called so I wonder what happened.

Albert

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Welp, glad I asked that question... Ok Stone pros.. how do you like to take care of lippage? with out a planetary grinder?

Also throw out your favorite diamond resin disc brands... what diamater discs you prefer, how many you prefer to use on the bottom of the floor machine and if it varies what conditions do you use to dictate said number?

And while we are at it, I know Gary says he uses the same set of dimonds across all stones. For those of you who use different sets for calcites and different sets for granites and harder stones.. Which brands do you prefer? I know industry practice is harder diamond resisns for softer stones and softer resins for harder surfaces.. how could one distinquish the difference?

And while we are at it.. (I know I've searched alot of your posts over the last year on Dirty Grout but for the sake of Mikeysboard.) what are your favorite polishing compounds/powders. And to go along with it, I've heard/read many times that after certain steps many stone guys will switch to a polishing powder or compound. Are you still goin up in grits like the stonetech powders or how do the compounds work?

These questions will keep your little fingers busy for a while.. but THANK YOU in advance for sharing the wealth of knowledge.


To Dana: if you are still reading this, any plans to do a teleseminar ? Haven't heard back anything more about this.

 

[Stone Dude]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Welp, glad I asked that question... Ok Stone pros.. how do you like to take care of lippage? with out a planetary grinder?

I bought my planetary because of my bad back, its a lot easier to use. that being said, I prefer the swing machine. It is way more versatile

Also throw out your favorite diamond resin disc brands... what diamater discs you prefer, how many you prefer to use on the bottom of the floor machine and if it varies what conditions do you use to dictate said number?

3" diamonds x3 on the driver.

And while we are at it, I know Gary says he uses the same set of dimonds across all stones. For those of you who use different sets for calcites and different sets for granites and harder stones.. Which brands do you prefer? I know industry practice is harder diamond resisns for softer stones and softer resins for harder surfaces.. how could one distinquish the difference?

Some floor diamonds are made specifically for granite. these are what you should use for granite. the bond is specific.

And while we are at it.. (I know I've searched alot of your posts over the last year on Dirty Grout but for the sake of Mikeysboard.) what are your favorite polishing compounds/powders. And to go along with it, I've heard/read many times that after certain steps many stone guys will switch to a polishing powder or compound. Are you still goin up in grits like the stonetech powders or how do the compounds work?

I make my own compound to use, it is my favorite. I like Diaglo as well. 5x works great but I am not a 5x user. I have 5 different compounds, 1 of them is used 90% of the time

These questions will keep your little fingers busy for a while.. but THANK YOU in advance for sharing the wealth of knowledge.


To Dana: if you are still reading this, any plans to do a teleseminar ? Haven't heard back anything more about this.

 

[alazo1]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

David, I have a list of diamonds I sometimes use towards the end of this post.

http://www.mikeysboard.com/forum/viewto ... nd#p445782

This would be an equivalent of the monkeys except with 2 steps and much better results. Note though that as in the monkeys, starting at 800 grit is not really considered much of a restoration. On a lot of jobs I do 200, 400 and 800 diamonds. If there are picture frames I do follow it with a 1500 grit Cobb pad. This tends to blend the floor with the frames without loosing clarity. Keep it nice and wet. There after a powder polish.

to add weight capability to your buffer you can either buy a piece that takes place of the motor cover that has a peg in the middle (put your weights there) or as I did I bought a plumbing fitting that is a flange with 4 screws and the other side is a female thread for the 1/2" galvanized pipe (this holds the weights. I drilled 3 new holes to match the cover of the motor.

For lippage removal usually metal abrassives are used. Once in a while you'll find someone that is willing to pay for it but not often.

Whether with Cheetahs or traditional diamond pads a class is suggested. IMO without it you just rely on what people do and use. Not everyone is going to agree. It just gets confusing. At least after a class you'll have a better understanding and willl be able to make a better judgement as to what may work best for you.

Albert

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Albert... I've taken stone classes, I just keep finding that everyone has different preferences when it comes to products, so I asked the questions to see why different people choose the different products they do. I have a weighted floor machine, but haven't invested in my set of diamonds yet, but I have several customers committed finally to restoration of their stone. So between dirty grout and here I've been researching what everybody likes.

I have a good source of stone tech products (we happen to sell them through our retail side). Jon Don practically gave me a set of thier unitex dimond pads at the last class since I upgraded floor machines from my 20 year old machine. ( I never knew a floor machine was supposed to run so smoothly! :shock: ) They through in the weight set and a case of natural hair pads as well. But I've held off on my set of diamonds and subsequent pad driver.

I do have to say that the cheetah pads intrique me as I would not need for another pad driver. And I've yet to find one for less than $160.00.

As for my questions. I've seen alot of sites.. even granquarts that advertise several diamonds as suitable for all stone floors, including marble, granite, and concrete.

Ie: https://ecom.granquartz.com/VIA11/viaLi ... le=Surface^Pro^Plus^Wet&searchText=0524&reqTitle=TITLE_VIAUSERDOCLIST

Thank you for the link.

 

[floorguy]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

personal preference just like prespray

 

[alazo1]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Doug is right, same as pre-spray.

I know a few that have those and they are good. I think Stone Dude (Cameron) is one of them.

As far as the driver, do you have an old regular driver that has the little pegs?. You could razor blades those out and put some velcro. Or for a weighted pad driver, go to your metal recycler and pick up a piece of stock 1/2" metal. Have it cut in a circle and adapt the velcro.

Albert

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Thanks Albert.. just rechecked the post and didn't realize I had asked the same questions already.. It happens. Can't blame it on old timers so I guess we'll have to call it sometimers!

 

[dealtimeman]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

How much does a weighted driver cost?

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Ok stone guys, why do most of you seem to stop with diamonds after 800 or 1500 resin discs and go to Powders if diamond resins have grits up into 8500 range?

 

[alazo1]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

How much does a weighted driver cost?

About 300 bucks...check with Larry.

David, 800 grit is usually enough before a polish. When you can see a faint reflection of an object with good clarity then you can powder polish. Some take it to 3000 before powder polishing. Some diamonds get you there at 800 some another grit higher. The claim is that the higher you hone, the pores of the stone close more hence the polish will last longer. I don't think this has been proven so it's an educated guess....I guess

There are some stones that burn burn easily with acid based powders. On these taking it up higher is a good idea. If the cheetahs work as advertised they would be good for these stones as no acid is used.

Albert

 

[Stone Dude]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

I am one of the few that goes t 8500, but its not often. I do it on something like Bottocino to get a mechanical polish without using a polishing pwoder.

if you want good diamonds for good price, Regent Stone Products has Triple thicks and Regent resin discs. they are $8-$14 each and work well. Good clarity on marble and travertine

 

[sweendogg]

Re: I need the Top 3 Stone Guys here to test some Cheetah Pa

Two referrels is all I need.. :mrgreen: