Mrs Wagner...question.

[Joe Bristor]

"...the pleasure on Carol's face as a big glob of shit comes down the tube is phenomenal...."

euwww.


I don't get it.
What's this got to do with Lisa Wagner ?

 

[truckmount girl]

"...the pleasure on Carol's face as a big glob of shit comes down the tube is phenomenal...."

euwww.


I don't get it.
What's this got to do with Lisa Wagner ?

You actually watched that? I saw it was 9 minutes and clicked off after 10 seconds.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Bjorn]

z]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mypbE8iNgCQz]

 

[bob vawter]

i watched the whole thing...
rather anti-climactic.....

kina lik this thread!

 

[Guest]

First things first. We all have to stop worrying about their testing procedures and protocol and come to grips what this is really about. Its about money. These people aren't stupid, they know a rug doctor is a joke, but when you start talking about dismantling their personal ATM they are going to look at you with blank stares.

What really needs to happen to force their hands is for the IICRC to come up with their own plan , disavow what the CRI is doing and explain why it is flawed. We have the numbers within the associations and distributors in the industry to squash this before it gets any further. Totally walk away from the CRI and strip away any semblance of credibility .

 

[joe harper]

"Is there ONE SINGLE member here that can HONESTLY say that any of this effects their
bottom-line"... :?:

If so...Please state your NAME...And how you are affected.. :!:

 

[Joe Bristor]

"You actually watched that?"
Well...I got a kick outa listening to him talk...
I DID turn it off after the Carol quote and I promise I wont watch it again.
hope I havent lost your respect Lisa. lol

Coop, you & Odin seem to be implying Lisa W. is just doing all this for money.
Is it true Lisa?

 

[Desk Jockey]

"Is there ONE SINGLE member here that can HONESTLY say that any of this effects their
bottom-line"... :?:

We buy brand name SOA approved chems, so some of the price of each and every gallon is being past on to me.

Is it a significant amount? Probably not, but that's money I'd much rather have in my pocket than funding such screwed up program. :x

The other issue that could potentially be more damaging, is if there come a time when the retailers are brain washed to refer and recommend SOA certified cleaners. Then we could lose business from our retail partners if we don't bend and conform to the flawed SOA program. Could mean the purchase of SOA machines and chems....$$$$$$. :shock:

 

[Jim Pemberton]

The SOA is potentially GREAT for my business. Half the stuff I sell has "the mark" on it.

Just because a thing doesn't hurt you doesn't mean you shouldn't fight against it.

Waiting till something snowballs beyond your ability to counter it isn't the best course of action either. Right now the "pole position" goes to the well financed franchises who pay extra for the "Certified Space Science" ranking. No technical reason they are # 1 in position. Just got it by paying for it.

Its wrong, and it has the potential to hurt the "little guys"

 

[Joe Bristor]

Is this about principle or money?
How expensive is it really?

 

[truckmount girl]

Joe, Terje and Cooper,

Lisa (W) and I have taken polar opposite stands on many issues in the past, and probably will in the future, but I really think you are off the mark here if you are sniffing for a profit motive for her involvement in this issue. It makes no sense...how would she profit? Unless the CRI can figure out a way to get their NASA gun to sniff out the BS in marketing packages, which is highly unlikely, this isn't ever going to affect her or Piranha directly.

I believe others in the industry would like to say the things she has said, but due to affiliations within the industry cannot. She is in a unique position to do and say what she is in her blog and on the BB's regarding this issue and I'm fully behind her on this particular issue.

Take care,
Lisa

 

[Bjorn]

I have no idea what her true reasons for doing this

I am always very suspicious and of this I don't have any inside information

Just my nature

 

[Hoody]

The only gain she could possibly receive is the recognition of the work she has done to fight for the little guys. That may result in a few more memberships, and incline some to purchase from her. But I believe her intentions are true in nature and not for any personal gain.

I don't think some people see the potential for this being a problem in the future. If we allow this to go through by rolling over and not doing anything about it. We are letting people who have no respect for what we do strong arm us for their own person gain. That is simply not right.

I have a notion to believe that a rating system of any type whether its for chemicals or equipment will never work. Those with money will always use it to influence the decision of others, and we'll still be back a square one all over again.

 

[joe harper]

"Is there ONE SINGLE member here that can HONESTLY say that any of this effects their
bottom-line"... :?:

We buy brand name SOA approved chems, so some of the price of each and every gallon is being past on to me.

Is it a significant amount? Probably not, but that's money I'd much rather have in my pocket than funding such screwed up program. :x

The other issue that could potentially be more damaging, is if there come a time when the retailers are brain washed to refer and recommend SOA certified cleaners. Then we could lose business from our retail partners if we don't bend and conform to the flawed SOA program. Could mean the purchase of SOA machines and chems....$$$$$$. :shock:

Richard..I am ashamed...

I commend you on your loyalty to the parties INVOLVED... 8)

But the possible "SPEC" for a S.O.A. chemical..would only be passed on to the client...
Also allowing you to INCREASE your profit on the job...

You..more than MOST here..Understand how these "sTuPiD" regulation...increase our profits..
As your Restoration Business is FORCED to accept the EXACT regulation's as the ASBESTOS
REMOVAL "dEfUnKeD" INDUSTRY...Your profit's will double... :wink:

If any business.."dEsIre'S"..to run with the BIG BOY'S..they had better have "DEEP POCKET'S".

While the Industry "leaders"...try to drum up support for "THEIR" cause... :roll:
The O/O will be left behind....to clean only "out-dated" un-warrantied carpet.. :?: :?: :?:
"I don't SEE that Happening." :wink:

The "grass-root" support that these "leaders" are trying to AWAKE....is non-existent...
These regulation's ..IF ACHEIVED.....will be non-enforceable...& of NO consequence to most..!

If this INDUSTRY was eThiCaL..."I would own a BOX store that only sold SCOTCHGUARD.."
I can't imagine how many companies out there..have SOLD 150,000 sf. Scotchgard & have
receipts for the purchase of "ONE GALLON"...

I am always a little "SKePtIcAl"...of those who SPEAK-OUT for the poor...!

What is wonderful & fair about capitalism...IS...
It has a NATURAL way of "weeding-out the weak... :!:

NOT everyone can be the BOSS...

While..I respect everyone who is involved in this "movement" !
There is just to much "behind-the-scene"...posturing going on.... :?


Ps.Jim..If you can achieve a profit on SOA approved products.."Good for YOU.."
But ....If they are Sooo OFFENSIVE to you.. :?: Why are they on your shelves... :?

 

[Guest]

Why is it most cleaners could smell a rat when it came to Joe P.'s Ethical Services but Lisa couldn't ? Why after 2-3 years is she suddenly on her soapbox over SOA ? Why not from the get go ? I dont have any inside information, only questions, but if I had to guess I would say with Joe out the picture, Lisa is perhaps reinventing herself and walking out of Joes shadow ? Other than that , I am basing my questions on her past defending and association of questionable marketing ventures while a member of team Joe Fish.

 

[Shorty]

Why is it most cleaners could smell a rat when it came to Joe P.'s Ethical Services but Lisa couldn't ? Why after 2-3 years is she suddenly on her soapbox over SOA ? Why not from the get go ? I dont have any inside information, only questions, but if I had to guess I would say with Joe out the picture, Lisa is perhaps reinventing herself and walking out of Joes shadow ? Other than that , I am basing my questions on her past defending and association of questionable marketing ventures while a member of team Joe Fish.

Jim, it's called human nature.

Why didn't you start cleaning carpets when you left school ?? Or did you ??

Why did you stay so long with tee em off ??

Why didn't you leave them before you even started with them ??

There are many questions every one of us could come up with, but in reality, they would only be a diversion to what the issue at hand is all about.

We are all entitled to do and say things as we wish, a lot of times many people may not understand why we said or did those things.

The way I see it, Lisa is trying to do something positive for our industry and has stepped on many toes that none have previously been able to do in the past with any success, with regards to this program.

She is also getting the groundswell of support that she so rightly deserves.

For those that can see the positives, give the Lady a hand.

For those that can't see the immoralities of the soa, how many years will it take you to wake up to reality. ??

The bottom line as I see it in regard to "follow the money", is that "the money" is coming directly out of your wallet and going into the coffers of the corrupt soa program.

This money will then be distributed to the Cheshire faced fat-cats that are pushing so hard for this program to be accepted.

The above line is not aimed at sellers of chemicals or equipment, rather at the bod of soa.

Fair bloody dinkum, some times I wonder, am I really in with an intelligent group of business managers that went out on a limb to start their own carpet cleaning business to support their families and their lifestyle,

OR

am I just in a herd of ill bred sheep, each one following the other to the slaughter. ??

Rant over.

Ooroo,

 

[Jim Pemberton]

OK Harper, you caught me coming off self righteous. I don't like it very much, but its my fault I came off that way; you simply called me on it.

Thanks for the splash of cold water.

What products I promote or move to the back of my shelf is my affair, and anyone who does business with me will have to decide for themselves if the values I promote here are matched with my words and deeds at my business.

I'd say this is my final word on this issue, but that would be disingenuous. I don't seem to have an "off switch" when it comes to this subject.

I will say that I hope that as a result of what's going on here that those in cleaning industry will be brought to a level that they will be treated with the respect that they deserve.

 

[Steve Toburen]

I am always very suspicious ... Just my nature

Ya think?

Island Boy
SFS.JonDon.com

PS I will grant you that Terry does have eclectic tastes in YouTube videos!

 

[Guest]

[quote="James Cooper":1rzsjw6k]Why is it most cleaners could smell a rat when it came to Joe P.'s Ethical Services but Lisa couldn't ? Why after 2-3 years is she suddenly on her soapbox over SOA ? Why not from the get go ? I dont have any inside information, only questions, but if I had to guess I would say with Joe out the picture, Lisa is perhaps reinventing herself and walking out of Joes shadow ? Other than that , I am basing my questions on her past defending and association of questionable marketing ventures while a member of team Joe Fish.

Jim, it's called human nature.

Why didn't you start cleaning carpets when you left school ?? Or did you ??

Why did you stay so long with tee em off ??

Why didn't you leave them before you even started with them ??

There are many questions every one of us could come up with, but in reality, they would only be a diversion to what the issue at hand is all about.

We are all entitled to do and say things as we wish, a lot of times many people may not understand why we said or did those things.

The way I see it, Lisa is trying to do something positive for our industry and has stepped on many toes that none have previously been able to do in the past with any success, with regards to this program.

She is also getting the groundswell of support that she so rightly deserves.

For those that can see the positives, give the Lady a hand.

For those that can't see the immoralities of the soa, how many years will it take you to wake up to reality. ??

The bottom line as I see it in regard to "follow the money", is that "the money" is coming directly out of your wallet and going into the coffers of the corrupt soa program.

This money will then be distributed to the Cheshire faced fat-cats that are pushing so hard for this program to be accepted.

The above line is not aimed at sellers of chemicals or equipment, rather at the bod of soa.

Fair bloody dinkum, some times I wonder, am I really in with an intelligent group of business managers that went out on a limb to start their own carpet cleaning business to support their families and their lifestyle,

OR

am I just in a herd of ill bred sheep, each one following the other to the slaughter. ??

Rant over.

Ooroo,

[/quote:1rzsjw6k]


All fair questions to me , and when Im done I'll wrap this all up for you.

I did start cleaning when I left school , once I figured out what Rob and Tre were about I left . In my opinion , Lisa jumped on an issue that has been out there fore the last 3 years . Plenty of opportunites to jump out there in the last few years and champion this cause , but the reality is it will be decided in the back rooms and between the IICRC and CRI.

Now , If we all know Ethical Services was a money grab , why does Lisa insist they did nothing wrong in the way it was initially set up ? Why is she not only posting on TMF , why does she have her own forum ?

Yes we all know CRI is corrupt , but why soapbox it 3 years later when letters on bulletin boards are essentially worthless ? I put my trust in Tony W. and Jim P. , and hop they have enough backup to get this derailed, because the reality is the IICRC as a rule doesnt listen to carpet cleaners , and neither does the CRI . Again , still suspicious and can still read all the archives from ICS and ethical services to justify not jumping on the bandwagon.

 

[Desk Jockey]

Well put Shorty!

 

[harryhides]

One constant in life is CHANGE, people change and circumstances change.

I don't have enough accurate data on Mill claims but my own instinct is that carpet quality like many other manufactured products has gone down over the last few decades and probably claims volume has gone up. Unlike in the automobile trade, the US domestic carpet manufacturer still has very little import competition.

People change and Boards change. Many of the players in the IICRC of a few years ago are now gone. There is a new attorney, a new Chairman and a new Professional President.
As the internet takes a hold, carpet cleaners are also finding their voice - another change.

Say what you will about Lisa or anyone else for that matter, she has great writing skills and has done a lot to bring this issue into focus right now. I have always been a great advocate of the principle of free speech. Discussion and
debate are never a bad thing, imo.
Don't loose sight of the real issues with distractions like some of this personal stuff which can easily be thrown at anyone.

 

[Dolly Llama]

Cooper, you meatball... :roll:

WTF does it matter if she has an agenda?
seriously, who gives a sheet?!!?
It's a GOOD thing she's doing whether there are ulterior motives or not
and I'm NOT suggesting/implying there are.

She's recognized and has "clout" in this biz, she's out spoken and articulate
and too damn long winded half the time

now go back to your hole and stop trying to be some advocate of the masses.
cause your judgment has PROVEN to be FLAT ASS WRONG over and over again.

if it will help you to STFU...think of it this way,

"the enemy of my enemy is my ally "

now get the hell out of the way, would you!


..L.T.A.

 

[bob vawter]

ya...talk about changin' spots.....?????
i don think so!
git him Larr!

 

[Bjorn]

t]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=609ry15lzMot]

 

[Guest]

Maybe you guys are right . I am the first to admit that Lisa wrote an eloquent piece . Sometimes its hard to forget all the years Joe and Lisa pushed their marketing down your throat on ICS and other boards relentlessly. And of course the main thing and still fresh in my mind is being listed below the red line on their ethical services scheme, calling to have my name removed , and getting a sales pitch on why I needed them. So pardon me if I put my faith in the guys that are actively working in the background , like Tony W. , and Jim P. You search archives on any forums and these guys come up aces .

Maybe I'm wrong for being suspicious, but I voiced my opinion . Anyone can write a letter , so maybe I am confused and some details have been left out . Is there more to it than just this forum letter ? Is Lisa proposing to use all her resources to confront the IICRC and CRI ? Or it just an open letter on a forum , similar to a private citizen voicing an opinion in a newspaper editorial ? Now maybe if she can harness some of the Joe P star power in the fight that could make a difference. Is Sir Richard or Paula available ?

Again , until I know any different , Im putting my money on the volunteers that can make a real difference, Tony W and Jim . BTW , Tony W. or Jim P. , can you give us an idea of who within the IICRC should be recognized as on our side in this issue ? Maybe we could all send them our thanks via email ?

Thanks

James

 

[Jeff Madsen]

I keep trying to "thank" Larry for that brilliant post - but I can't find the "thank" button! shiteatinggrin

 

[Guest]

Cooper, you meatball... :roll:

WTF does it matter if she has an agenda?
seriously, who gives a sheet?!!?
It's a GOOD thing she's doing whether there are ulterior motives or not
and I'm NOT suggesting/implying there are.

She's recognized and has "clout" in this biz, she's out spoken and articulate
and too damn long winded half the time

now go back to your hole and stop trying to be some advocate of the masses.
cause your judgment has PROVEN to be FLAT ASS WRONG over and over again.

if it will help you to STFU...think of it this way,

"the enemy of my enemy is my ally "

now get the hell out of the way, would you!


..L.T.A.

Im not here to fight with you , or anyone Larry . I have questions and concerns with the architect of Ethical Services and other money extracting schemes dreamed up by Joe P.

But to be fair , as Tony W. said , people and circumstances can and do change. So to take this to a positive note instead of turning it into a bashing thread, allow me to ask a fair question instead of a getting a mob mentality STFU reply.
Lisa you have asked for imput on what we would do to change the CRI SOA program . What are your intentions once you gather all this information ? Are you going to present directly to the board or are you actually working directly with members of the IICRC or CRI ?

If you are going to incur personal expenses and take point in this fight ( travel , court fees, etc. ) let us know what we can do to help make a difference.
I want a successful resolution to this as well as anyone else, so make no mistake about it, if you are doing more than simply letter writing, we all need to step up and be available to help, whether volunteering ideas, money ( always helps) or time.

Again , let us know where this is going so we can help make a difference beyond just patting ourselves on the back on a forum.

James

 

[Shorty]

Jim, I believe that you are an intelligent person by the way you come across in all the discussions we've had on several forums.

Let's start from square one.

Let's say that you don't know any of the past history on JP, Ethical Services, Lisa Wagner, the CRI or SOA.

You're a newbie in this industry.

You can see and read, by this Ladies posts, that she is trying to do her hardest by exposing the dishonesty put forward by the CRI & SOA.

Would you not feel a sense of humanity to help her on this quest. ?

She is trying to right a wrong.

Is there something that I am missing here. ?

The wrongdoing (as I see it), can & will, have a follow on affect to carpet cleaners worldwide, not just in Wanker Beach, Virginia, or any other place you can name.

Lisa is not a virgin in making mistakes, neither are any one of us, especially me, but we can all help, by giving her support to try and stop the soa from gaining control over our industry and our livelihood.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, let's put some of the past behind us, and look forward to building a stronger, more professional code of conduct, for carpet cleaners worldwide.

A group of professionals that the general public can trust to do the very best for them, with no bullshit attached in the way of falsified documentation from a non performing board of wannabe advisors to our industry that in reality, have no idea about which they speak.

I hope you can undestand my lingo mate, if you can't, then tough titties, you'll have to wait a couple of months 'til I get over there and speak to you face to face.

Future generations, as well as ours, are depending on us to fix this, let's not disappoint them.

Ooroo,

Shortestwun.

:roll:


PS :: I feel like Steve when I do these PS things :wink: but in all seriousness, we are really pushing shit uphill here, but if we keep on pushing, we'll topple these arrogant sons of bitches with their soa. ( Can I say that )???

 

[Guest]

100 percent agree with you Shorty - and thats what I like about you , short and to the point .

So whats the plan for influencing the IICRC to walk away from CRI ? As Lisa has said herself , ( at least when the carpet cleaning public was up in arms over ethical services ) , letter writing alone didnt make them change . BUT one thing it does is unite folks against a common enemy , which is appears Lisa has done.

Now that we all have established that CRI needs to go away , what do we do to convince and help IICRC see the light ? If Lisa has a plan , I want to know what we can do to help . If its money that needs to be raised , World of Clean would be willing to donate a website , free hosting for a year , full SEO for raffle to raise funds if required OR even work with Lisa to build a site specifically for cleaners wanting to air their grievances against the CRI program .

I think you have the masses with you , now what do we do ?

James

 

[Bjorn]