Nastygram from Utah

[daniel@procarpet]

Ryan I have a simple question for you.

Would you rather do two 500 dollar jobs per day, or 7 150 dollar jobs?

I know what I would rather do.

 

[joeynbgky]

If I could afford a V I would get one... Even if I only used one wand.. I would put a single tech in it and have him drive it by himself just so people would think I gots it going on.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

A majority of V/AT owners haven't been as successful as Ron Beatty in corralling the high dollar jobs...thus the glut of machines on the market.

The most successful people are successful for reasons OTHER than their trucks.

 

[Brian R]

First a disclaimer...it wasn't Mikey I was calling the fair weather friend...he's an ass no doubt shiteatinggrin ....Just wanted to make that clear.

Brian, Once again you make comments about the Vortex's, when you know nothing about them. If YOU have enough work to keep them busy, they are well worth the money you spend. When you can make in one day, what it cost you for a month, the math tells the story. And after 34 consecutive years in business I think I may know a lot more about running my business, than you running your mouth.

Hey Ron, any equipment can work for anyone smart enough to make it work...I understand that. I also understand that it's not the equipment that makes the money....the opposite is true...the equipment makes the money go by by. It's what you do WITH it that makes the money.

Business is just income and expense...easy.
For the cost of the V you can buy two slide ins and still dual wand....you can even dual wand across town for that matter.
Yes, we've been through it all before...but just because you've been doing something for 34 years doesn't make it the best business decision.
More to the point, you are just making the best OF your business decision. And that's fine.

I wish you prosperity no matter what but don't try to get me to believe just because something's monthly gets paid for in a days work means you couldn't be making more money doing it another way.

No hard feelings.

 

[Jim Martin]

wasn't that big issue, getting parts to fix it, and some parts that shouldn't have gone bad that did, ie the seal on the vac tank? Wasn't it all about just getting it fixed? From what I remember, the machines kicked butt but they had to fix it themselves, no customer support

pretty much.....what it all comes down to is the entire Vortex subject has gotten blown way out of proportion because there are just to many people that are to quick to jump on there soap box and don't have a clue of what they are talking about....there is not a part for these machines that can not be found...sometimes it is not easy but they are out there....the newer models have bluelines service and I am more then sure Bill is going to do everything in his power to back them up and still give them the service they need.......the older types are really the ones that don't have the service standing behind them like the newer ones...but A/T is still a really good source...
another issue is that it was said that Vortex (the older ones) were made with the top of the line and best material/parts out there.....this was true to a point...the switches and some other components are the best and can take some abuse....but...just like everything else they are not going to last forever....I don't consider weak welds...flimsy stainless sheet metal and galvanized fittings top of the line...and there was a lot of things that were over looked...a lot of the parts that are on these machines could of lasted a lot longer then what they did but because of the way they were installed or because of some of the things that were added to them it did nothing but tear them up and shorten there life....
either way.....we can sit here and bitch ..wine..cry..and piss in the wind all we want.....but it isn't going to change.....Parts are out there.....A/T is still a good source for the older models and Blueline has the newer ones covered....

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Re: Misery Loves company

[quote="Lee Stockwell":3f8dt6g2]Shawn York wants me to change/remove any negative comment I may have ever made here about him or the way he does business.

In the Facebook Jon-Don thread about bulletin boards he took offense when I commented on his attack on this board and any who don't see things the way he does.

That took the form of a very nasty email accusing me of Libel and promising a lawsuit against me.

It seemed to be written with crayons....

Lee, you've been an instigator throughout this as well as other malicious attacks, a profound story teller throughout your time on these boards, one who disappears when confronted, and one of the few who was justifiable banned from ICS, and the biggest know-it-all phony personalities imo....

The reason you guys come here and post these pity posts at all?
Other than the hoping others will join you in your slander?
Then why?[/quote:3f8dt6g2]

Joe do you care to perhaps add a fact to this fiction?....you goof

 

[Ryan]

Ryan I have a simple question for you.

Would you rather do two 500 dollar jobs per day, or 7 150 dollar jobs?

I know what I would rather do.

Are you saying that if I don't own a vortex I can't do the two $500 jobs? I'm pretty sure an Everest or even smaller unit would bust them out just fine.

 

[Ryan]

Ryan, We have been through this before. I could afford to buy the Vortex's, they make me money everyday, and make my work a lot easier. Enough said. !gotcha!

I know, I know we don't need a repeat of that. I just can't help myself. I've worked out of a vortex plenty and I can't understand buying a new one. As long as your making money thats all that matters.

 

[Ryan]

Ryan if I had the accounts I would take a V over two trucks with twice the tires, brakes, insurance, upkeep etc.

The V is good for image as well.

If I could find one mint for under 40k, I might jump on it. It would have to be decked out though.

Actually the AT looks more attractive to me.

Ok a V has 6 tires so only two less tires. EVERYTHING is going to cost you more on a diesel, I don't know if you've ever owned a diesel truck.... trust me they cost a fortune to work on.

I've never said it was crazy to buy a good used one either. I just can't understand paying $100k+ for a new one.

The dual regulators on the A/T's are sweet, and the heat is supposed to be better. Although Ron's may have dual regs too.. the 6008 I used to work out of didn't.

 

[Ken Snow]

Ryan I have a simple question for you.

Would you rather do two 500 dollar jobs per day, or 7 150 dollar jobs?

I know what I would rather do.

I don't follow this one at all- having 2 500 or 7 150 jobs a day has nothing to do with the equipment you own.

We have dozens of crews doing everything from 800 to 2000-3000 every day with Butlers.

 

[Danny Strickland]

Brian, Once again you make comments about the Vortex's, when you know nothing about them. If YOU have enough work to keep them busy, they are well worth the money you spend. When you can make in one day, what it cost you for a month, the math tells the story. And after 34 consecutive years in business I think I may know a lot more about running my business, than you running your mouth.

But for the price of one vortex you could have two trucks that could do the same work it does, still have smaller payments and split them up them when you have work in separate places. How many jobs do you do that couldn't be done by a Prochem Everest?

2 machines mean 2x the insurance, equipment/tools on board, lettering, fuel etc. So is it really less to run 2 seperate machines/vans???

 

[Ryan]

Brian, Once again you make comments about the Vortex's, when you know nothing about them. If YOU have enough work to keep them busy, they are well worth the money you spend. When you can make in one day, what it cost you for a month, the math tells the story. And after 34 consecutive years in business I think I may know a lot more about running my business, than you running your mouth.

But for the price of one vortex you could have two trucks that could do the same work it does, still have smaller payments and split them up them when you have work in separate places. How many jobs do you do that couldn't be done by a Prochem Everest?

2 machines mean 2x the insurance, equipment/tools on board, lettering, fuel etc. So is it really less to run 2 seperate machines/vans???

Yes.

 

[steve g]

[quote="Ron Werner":1tmtn2a8]wasn't that big issue, getting parts to fix it, and some parts that shouldn't have gone bad that did, ie the seal on the vac tank? Wasn't it all about just getting it fixed? From what I remember, the machines kicked butt but they had to fix it themselves, no customer support

pretty much.....what it all comes down to is the entire Vortex subject has gotten blown way out of proportion because there are just to many people that are to quick to jump on there soap box and don't have a clue of what they are talking about....there is not a part for these machines that can not be found...sometimes it is not easy but they are out there....the newer models have bluelines service and I am more then sure Bill is going to do everything in his power to back them up and still give them the service they need.......the older types are really the ones that don't have the service standing behind them like the newer ones...but A/T is still a really good source...
another issue is that it was said that Vortex (the older ones) were made with the top of the line and best material/parts out there.....this was true to a point...the switches and some other components are the best and can take some abuse....but...just like everything else they are not going to last forever....I don't consider weak welds...flimsy stainless sheet metal and galvanized fittings top of the line...and there was a lot of things that were over looked...a lot of the parts that are on these machines could of lasted a lot longer then what they did but because of the way they were installed or because of some of the things that were added to them it did nothing but tear them up and shorten there life....
either way.....we can sit here and bitch ..wine..cry..and piss in the wind all we want.....but it isn't going to change.....Parts are out there.....A/T is still a good source for the older models and Blueline has the newer ones covered....[/quote:1tmtn2a8]


V/AT owners WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU TOTAL YOUR TRUCK??? THE NEW DIESEL TRUCKS WILL NOT SUPPORT OR ALLOW THINGS TO BE TAPPED INTO THE EXHAUST, PERIOD!!!!! who is going to move the unit, who is going to interface the electronics of the new truck to even operate the machine, trucks are drive by wire, you can't just hook anything up. diesel emissions have gotten so strict this is tightly regulated. you have a white elephant machine. I also wasn't aware that the nearest auto parts store sells vortex heat exchangers or exhuast valves. so to say can buy the parts anywhere is well........................................... ummm, BULLSHIT!!!!!

ron, you sing the vortex tune but from what I hear behind the scenes the problems you have had are not something to laugh at. by not being truthful other people are going to make the same mistake by taking your "public" advice. swallow your pride everyone makes a mistake or two.

 

[Danny Strickland]

[/quote]But for the price of one vortex you could have two trucks that could do the same work it does, still have smaller payments and split them up them when you have work in separate places. How many jobs do you do that couldn't be done by a Prochem Everest?[/quote]


2 machines mean 2x the insurance, equipment/tools on board, lettering, fuel etc. So is it really less to run 2 seperate machines/vans???[/quote]

Yes.[/quote]


put up some #'s to prove that. just saying yes is worthless. do you have multiple big machines in 1ton vans with big v-8's or diesel box trucks moving the equipment??? do you have exact matching tools/equipment on two TM's???

i'll be interested to see Ron Beaty address this point. i think he has multiple V's???

 

[Jim Martin]

[quote="Jim Martin":1oo1d8yy][quote="Ron Werner":1oo1d8yy]wasn't that big issue, getting parts to fix it, and some parts that shouldn't have gone bad that did, ie the seal on the vac tank? Wasn't it all about just getting it fixed? From what I remember, the machines kicked butt but they had to fix it themselves, no customer support

pretty much.....what it all comes down to is the entire Vortex subject has gotten blown way out of proportion because there are just to many people that are to quick to jump on there soap box and don't have a clue of what they are talking about....there is not a part for these machines that can not be found...sometimes it is not easy but they are out there....the newer models have bluelines service and I am more then sure Bill is going to do everything in his power to back them up and still give them the service they need.......the older types are really the ones that don't have the service standing behind them like the newer ones...but A/T is still a really good source...
another issue is that it was said that Vortex (the older ones) were made with the top of the line and best material/parts out there.....this was true to a point...the switches and some other components are the best and can take some abuse....but...just like everything else they are not going to last forever....I don't consider weak welds...flimsy stainless sheet metal and galvanized fittings top of the line...and there was a lot of things that were over looked...a lot of the parts that are on these machines could of lasted a lot longer then what they did but because of the way they were installed or because of some of the things that were added to them it did nothing but tear them up and shorten there life....
either way.....we can sit here and bitch ..wine..cry..and piss in the wind all we want.....but it isn't going to change.....Parts are out there.....A/T is still a good source for the older models and Blueline has the newer ones covered....[/quote:1oo1d8yy]


V/AT owners WHAT HAPPENS IF YOU TOTAL YOUR TRUCK??? THE NEW DIESEL TRUCKS WILL NOT SUPPORT OR ALLOW THINGS TO BE TAPPED INTO THE EXHAUST, PERIOD!!!!! who is going to move the unit, who is going to interface the electronics of the new truck to even operate the machine, trucks are drive by wire, you can't just hook anything up. diesel emissions have gotten so strict this is tightly regulated. you have a white elephant machine. I also wasn't aware that the nearest auto parts store sells vortex heat exchangers or exhuast valves. so to say can buy the parts anywhere is well........................................... ummm, BULLSHIT!!!!!

ron, you sing the vortex tune but from what I hear behind the scenes the problems you have had are not something to laugh at. by not being truthful other people are going to make the same mistake by taking your "public" advice. swallow your pride everyone makes a mistake or two.[/quote:1oo1d8yy]


these are not vortex HX this is just a simple HX that you can get at most shops that make them.......as with most TM you can get all the other parts just about anyplace...as far as the exhaust valves......the newer models will adapt to the older type and that is not even a concern.....IF...one of the older model trucks got totaled then you just find a older model truck to switch it out...I am sure that there is a lot of people out there with common since that can look past any issues and figure them out......this is really no different then any other TM getting totaled......A/T still has great support on the older ones and could switch them out with no problems......this is not a difficult as you want to make it out to be........

 

[steve g]

yeah but doesn't ron have the newer blueline machines that are much more complicated have like 5 different HX's, have you even looked at one of those, jim?? I would wager the parts are not just at the auto parts store. but wait blueline/legends is going to continue to offer parts for a handful of machines. isn't legends owned by an investment company??? guess what that means as soon as they see they can turn a profit blueline will be sold to yet another company, will they continue to offer parts for a handful of machines??? just admit it your likely up the creek without at paddle. that is the problem with vortex owners they can never be honest and just say, they got hosed, they made a mistake, there is noone to fix the machine, parts are not there, new trucks will not support the machine.

in summary, jim what you are telling me is you have to have someone fabricate the HX if it goes out, you also have to switch out the unit yourself, what if you are not a mechanic instead you are a carpet cleaner??? what if you have limited mechanical knowledge?? what if you wanna make money rather than working on your equipment?? I am sorry your reasoning doesn't fly with most carpet cleaners.

 

[Ken Snow]

As Marty would say I don't think most cleaners GAS~ a vortex was and is so far outside of their ability to buy or need to have.

 

[harryhides]

Well, whatever happened to the constitutional right of "freedom of speech".

If expressing one's opinion is now automatically considered slander then what is all this mush about being a free people ?

Maliciously trying to hurt someone's business by "purposely" and "knowingly" spreading false information is an entirely different matter.

 

[Art Kelley]

in summary, jim what you are telling me is you have to have someone fabricate the HX if it goes out, you also have to switch out the unit yourself, what if you are not a mechanic instead you are a carpet cleaner??? what if you have limited mechanical knowledge?? what if you wanna make money rather than working on your equipment?? I am sorry your reasoning doesn't fly with most carpet cleaners.

What he's telling you that if there's a will there's a way. If you like your Vortex unit you will find a way to keep using it. I like my White Magic DD unit. The company might not be around in five years when I might need a part but that won't dissuade me from fixing it. Bob likes his Steam Genies. Do you think their dissolution into that vapor ball in the sky stops him from building a perfect Steam Genie? You're not giving carpet cleaners enough credit.

 

[Desk Jockey]

I wondered that also Tony.

I Googled looking for the size of belt on my tow behind mower and there was a string of owners complaints, from belts to the weight of the mower. :roll:

You can do the same with any automaker and see complaints of every different model.

People are entitled to have an opinion provided what ever is said is valid, then I don't see where it could go from there.



If you could blame any one thing for the lack of sales on the big trucks, it would have to be the economy.

 

[John Olson]

The hardest part with libel/slander and defamation is intent. If you can convince a Jury the persons intent was to cause harm then you win or lose depending on which side your on.

The BIG reason people do not pursue these cases as they are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to prove if you are using a lawyer. A lawyer has to collect all the evidence and this is very time consuming as lots of people have to be interviewed and deposed. It is very hard to prove intent unless you can show a very distinct pattern AND the person or person have to be in a position to actually cause harm.


Now in Mikey's case Shawn can cost Mikey 50-60k or more to defend himself and he very well could lose. The pattern is very easy track both up and down.

Anyone else well you will lose if Shawn files against you as it will cost you attorney fees no matter what. Shawn will not be out to win but to make you spend as much of your hard earned money as he can. Shawn is NOT stupid. He won't be spending his money on lawyers as he is very capable of filing all the papers himself. He has already gathered the information so he won't need to spend time tracking it down.

I point all this out so that no one is surprised when the Constable hands you a subpoena.

 

[steve g]

John Olson" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

The hardest part with libel/slander and defamation is intent. If you can convince a Jury the persons intent was to cause harm then you win or lose depending on which side your on.

The BIG reason people do not pursue these cases as they are $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to prove if you are using a lawyer. A lawyer has to collect all the evidence and this is very time consuming as lots of people have to be interviewed and deposed. It is very hard to prove intent unless you can show a very distinct pattern AND the person or person have to be in a position to actually cause harm.


Now in Mikey's case Shawn can cost Mikey 50-60k or more to defend himself and he very well could lose. The pattern is very easy track both up and down.

Anyone else well you will lose if Shawn files against you as it will cost you attorney fees no matter what. Shawn will not be out to win but to make you spend as much of your hard earned money as he can. Shawn is NOT stupid. He won't be spending his money on lawyers as he is very capable of filing all the papers himself. He has already gathered the information so he won't need to spend time tracking it down.

I point all this out so that no one is surprised when the Constable hands you a subpoena.

this can go both ways don't forget that john,

 

[Lee Stockwell]

I won't be bullied.

 

[John Olson]

Shawn has nothing to lose. There is no penalty for losing when you represent yourself. This is where tort reform needs to happen. If you file a lawsuit with the intent to cause financial harm and you do not Win your case you should automatically be forced to pay the attorney fees of the person you sued, but as it stands there is nothing keeping shawn from suing everyone that has said a deragatory remark about him and his product.

Lee i'm not telling you or anyone how to respond to Mr. York just pointing out how he could be working this out in his head.

 

[FB7777]

Ryan if I had the accounts I would take a V over two trucks with twice the tires, brakes, insurance, upkeep etc.

The V is good for image as well.

If I could find one mint for under 40k, I might jump on it. It would have to be decked out though.

Actually the AT looks more attractive to me.

You do realize you can purchase a used deisel cab forward and out fit it with the TM of your choice and gain the same image, right?

 

[Jim Martin]

yeah but doesn't ron have the newer blueline machines that are much more complicated have like 5 different HX's, have you even looked at one of those, jim?? I would wager the parts are not just at the auto parts store. but wait blueline/legends is going to continue to offer parts for a handful of machines. isn't legends owned by an investment company??? guess what that means as soon as they see they can turn a profit blueline will be sold to yet another company, will they continue to offer parts for a handful of machines??? just admit it your likely up the creek without at paddle. that is the problem with vortex owners they can never be honest and just say, they got hosed, they made a mistake, there is noone to fix the machine, parts are not there, new trucks will not support the machine.

in summary, jim what you are telling me is you have to have someone fabricate the HX if it goes out, you also have to switch out the unit yourself, what if you are not a mechanic instead you are a carpet cleaner??? what if you have limited mechanical knowledge?? what if you wanna make money rather than working on your equipment?? I am sorry your reasoning doesn't fly with most carpet cleaners.

No..the HX does not have to be fabricated..there are shops out there with all types of HX systems for most models out there....( even the Vortex).....No one can predict what Blue line will do....Just like no one could of predicted that the exhaust diverter would ever become a problem with these units...they make changes and you just have to work with it....If you are not good at turning a wrench then I am pretty sure that any mechanic with common knowledge can figure it out..they are really not that complicated...like I said...your on your soap box again trying to make things more difficult then they need to be.....

so tell me..... have you worked on any of these..have you used one for cleaning.....what is your personal experience with this type of equipment....and don't give me the lame excuse that you did last time about " I live in the same state" ...as funny as it was it held about as much water as Shawns leaky tanks....

I own one...I help many many cleaners with there all over the US....there has not been one unit that we have failed to find a part for or figure out how to get them back up and running....I think I know more of what I am talking about then you do at this point in time....

But regardless...I am pretty sure by now that just about any on the boards knows that when they visit your quaint little town you will be the one with the anti-vortex flag flying over your house....so aside for your vedette against York that you have apparently let get personal........what do you really care what others use to run there company with....vortex...portable or what ever...if they are happy with it then it is only there business....

 

[steve g]

Ryan if I had the accounts I would take a V over two trucks with twice the tires, brakes, insurance, upkeep etc.

The V is good for image as well.

If I could find one mint for under 40k, I might jump on it. It would have to be decked out though.

Actually the AT looks more attractive to me.

You do realize you can purchase a used deisel cab forward and out fit it with the TM of your choice and gain the same image, right?

HOLY SHIT, my god I didn't know that.

 

[The Great Oz]

I'm not sure how a nasty letter cures the bad PR generated by snarky comments.

 

[Ken Snow]

Too true Bryan

 

[ronbeatty]

Steve G, For all the thick people out there, over the last 35 years Hydramaster, Butler, Prochem, Blueline, Les and all the other machine builders have made design mistakes that have had to be corrected. I do not consider the purchase of these machines to be a MISTAKE so you won't get an apology from me !gotcha! As far as running 2 trucks, if you are going to do that you need additional crew people, support staff and maintenance. I have already been there, and find working with a good dependable helper and part time people to supplement my crew to be more to my liking.

And by the way, if you haven't notices lately, most of the major truckmount manufacturers are owned by publicly traded companies. !gotcha!