Portable Unit

[Cleanworks]

Well, that's going to be a deal breaker. I don't have the finances to buy a new TM and a vehicle less than 2 years old. I'll get a new TM, but it looks like I'll have to pivot to slide-in. The prochem apex, what is the temperature on that, please?

So, what is your business model? Do you want to clean mainly residential? Hotels or restaurants? Strata titled highrises or apartments? There are many ways to clean carpets depending on the situation and location.

 

[Jack Zipper Zerkie]

Old news I have a COBB 20 hp 45 blower and run 240 ATM with 2- 110 -03 jets lots of heat great vacuum no cage easy to work on and less than $20 grand

 

[alexcarpets]

So, what is your business model? Do you want to clean mainly residential? Hotels or restaurants? Strata titled highrises or apartments? There are many ways to clean carpets depending on the situation and location.

I'd like to do residential, low rise strata apartments, and some restaurants.

 

[alexcarpets]

I’m pretty sure you’re gonna be happy with a slide in especially if you’re new. This business is not a build it, they will come business. Don’t spend over your current needs, plus 3 yrs., maybe. That will not kill you should you decide you don’t even like this business. In other words, I hope you have a business plan!

Absolutely agree, Kenny!

 

[Cleanworks]

I'd like to do residential, low rise strata apartments, and some restaurants.

I would stay away from restaurants unless you're in a small market. Most restaurants are filthy, want you to clean at late hours and don't want to pay much. There are exceptions of course but that's my opinion. Truck mount is best and simplest to operate for houses and townhouses. Great for low-rise apartments and condos. I have several where we do a 250 foot hose run and clean 3 stories and stairs in less than 4 hours. $750 each. You may still need a portable for jobs that the truck will not reach or just say no to those types of jobs. I charge the same rate for portable cleaning as I do for truck mount cleaning. Be a good thing if you can find someone in your area to do a ride along with.

 

[alexcarpets]

Hey man, you don't need any more than 240F. If the machine can hold that temp, not just max out, then you'll be just fine. Keep in mind with restaurants you need contracts to do several of the same franchise to do multiple locations in one week to make really good money. I tried doing just independently owned restaurants here, and they were one of two thing:
1. Extremely insultingly cheap
2. Inconsiderate (They refused to move tables and chairs prior to your arrival or they wouldn't inform you they were closing early and when you arrived at 11:30 to clean, nobody was there (I drove an hour to that facility only to find out I couldn't clean)

Know your business model. I strongly suggest marketing to industrial conplexes that have office cubicles and funeral homes, churches, and even college apartment complexes. If all you can afford is a portable, then that can be used in all 4 of those facilities. But a truck mount will help you enjoy your job better.

If you get a Butler, you're sacrificing wasted space in your van. Their layout is terrible compared to hydra master and cleanco.

I really appreciate you sharing your experience. That would absolutely suck driving an hour an nobody giving you the heads up that it's closed. To your point, it would have to be worthwhile and that can really be done with a reputable company that has multiple locations.

 

[hogjowl]

Just remember we’re all carpet cleaners here, so we lie and our advice is suspect.

 

[alexcarpets]

I would stay away from restaurants unless you're in a small market. Most restaurants are filthy, want you to clean at late hours and don't want to pay much. There are exceptions of course but that's my opinion. Truck mount is best and simplest to operate for houses and townhouses. Great for low-rise apartments and condos. I have several where we do a 250 foot hose run and clean 3 stories and stairs in less than 4 hours. $750 each. You may still need a portable for jobs that the truck will not reach or just say no to those types of jobs. I charge the same rate for portable cleaning as I do for truck mount cleaning. Be a good thing if you can find someone in your area to do a ride along with.

All great points! I have family that's dealt with portables and after an extensive conversation with them, they've convinced me to stay away and just invest into a TM.
I did look at the TCS units you mentioned, and there were two that stood out. These are the two units: TCS Chief II Truckmount and TCS Chief Truckmount.

A few points/questions on these:

1.) Both are propane units, which I've never worked with, so I don't know what I don't know about propane. Anything I should know? (Cost factor, safety, any special permits required to transport these in my van?)

2.) Chief is rated at 120k BTU and Chief II is rated at 180k BTU.... what does this actually mean for temperature difference at the machine? At the wand?

3.) 331 CFM vs 495 CFM - How much of a difference does this make? Especially when it comes to hose runs.

4.) Honda vs Kohler - I am personally a very big fan of Honda engines, and am not familiar with Kohler. How reliable are they?

5.) On the topic of reliability, how reliable are the TCS units?

6.) How easy is it to service TCS? I am in the South Florida market.

7.) My goal is to do carpet, tile, upholstery, air ducts, and water extraction.... will the Chief and Chief II both be capable of doing this?


Thank you,

 

[alexcarpets]

Just remember we’re all carpet cleaners here, except Mikey, so we lie and our advice is suspect.

.....LOL

 

[Cleanworks]

All great points! I have family that's dealt with portables and after an extensive conversation with them, they've convinced me to stay away and just invest into a TM.
I did look at the TCS units you mentioned, and there were two that stood out. These are the two units: TCS Chief II Truckmount and TCS Chief Truckmount.

A few points/questions on these:

1.) Both are propane units, which I've never worked with, so I don't know what I don't know about propane. Anything I should know? (Cost factor, safety, any special permits required to transport these in my van?)

2.) Chief is rated at 120k BTU and Chief II is rated at 180k BTU.... what does this actually mean for temperature difference at the machine? At the wand?

3.) 331 CFM vs 495 CFM - How much of a difference does this make? Especially when it comes to hose runs.

4.) Honda vs Kohler - I am personally a very big fan of Honda engines, and am not familiar with Kohler. How reliable are they?

5.) On the topic of reliability, how reliable are the TCS units?

6.) How easy is it to service TCS? I am in the South Florida market.

7.) My goal is to do carpet, tile, upholstery, air ducts, and water extraction.... will the Chief and Chief II both be capable of doing this?


Thank you,

A lot of good questions. The difference in the heaters is that the 180,000 BTU unit will give you a higher temperature at a larger flow rate. Great when doing tiles or using a Zipper or other high flow tool. You will need a properly installed belly tank for the propane. Check in your service area, how many filling stations offer propane other than swappable tanks. Truck stops are often a good source. I prefer Honda engines but Kohler has a good reputation. Need oil changes every 50 hours to start, then 75-100 hours. Check to make sure you have a pump clutch so you can do water extraction. To be safe, propane heaters need to have the gas turned on and be lit for every job. Turned off and gas turned off after every job. You will have to check if you have service providers in your area. A simple phone call to TCS should suffice. I would say forget about air ducts unless you have dedicated equipment for them. Good way to ruin a truck mount in my opinion. TCS units seen to have a good reputation for reliability. Very simple. Personally, I would rather have a heat exchange machine instead of one using propane or diesel. Only one fuel need and simpler to operate.

 

[alexcarpets]

A lot of good questions. The difference in the heaters is that the 180,000 BTU unit will give you a higher temperature at a larger flow rate. Great when doing tiles or using a Zipper or other high flow tool. You will need a properly installed belly tank for the propane. Check in your service area, how many filling stations offer propane other than swappable tanks. Truck stops are often a good source. I prefer Honda engines but Kohler has a good reputation. Need oil changes every 50 hours to start, then 75-100 hours. Check to make sure you have a pump clutch so you can do water extraction. To be safe, propane heaters need to have the gas turned on and be lit for every job. Turned off and gas turned off after every job. You will have to check if you have service providers in your area. A simple phone call to TCS should suffice. I would say forget about air ducts unless you have dedicated equipment for them. Good way to ruin a truck mount in my opinion. TCS units seen to have a good reputation for reliability. Very simple. Personally, I would rather have a heat exchange machine instead of one using propane or diesel. Only one fuel need and simpler to operate.

I'm 100% with you on Honda engines... they last a very long time and are super reliable. For that reason, I am considering the Chief I, which has the Honda engine. However, it says it's 120,000 BTU's and I don't know if that's enough? I usually go by temperature at the machine, and obviously at the wand.... so I don't know what 120,000 BTU's means exactly as it relates to actual temperature?

On a similar note, the Chief I offers 331 cfm, and I'm wondering if this will be enough for runs of up to 200'?

Your points regarding propane are completely valid, and if possible I would like to avoid it too. However, there is a big price difference between the Chief I, and for example the Apex you are running, which really is out of price range for me. Is there unit that you would recommend? Something reliable, affordable, and that can provide good heat/suction?

On the topic of propane/diesel... The Chief also offers this Diesel version. While it still runs on a Kohler engine, which I'm not a fan of, I am very impressed by the heat and 495 CFM. The question here, however, is with respect to diesel. I called the company selling this and the gentleman said I would need a diesel vehicle for this to work. I'm confused, why does this need a diesel vehicle, whereas the propane is obviously good to go with separate propane tanks?

Thank you again!

 

[BIG WOOD]

As much as we make fun of TCS on here, they're not bad units. I've seen more negative feedback on sapphire models and hydra masters than I've seen with TCS. You really need make certain you have several filling spots for propane and don't mind the extra expense and maybe hassle of maintaining a separate fuel source.

As for CFM, you'll be fine with either. Especially since you were originally considering using a portable. Just keep in mind that if you ever decide to get rid of your TCS, you won't get what you want if you ever want to swap it out for a bigger unit. But if Price is a major concern, then TCS is probably your best bet since the "Nikey" companies are so over inflated right now.

Another option is to find the closest dealer and ask what they're best at servicing. Buy a used one of those units and spend the extra money to get them to look over it with a magnifying glass before you install it. It might be the same price as the lower model TCS, but it will be heat exchanger and have more CFM with the 4008 or similar blower. Keep in mind, you won't be slammed with work, so you'll have time to learn the unit when any kinks happen.

 

[Kenny Hayes]

I buy quite a bit of propane for my buffers and did even buy it for my little giant heater
which uses swap out tanks. The buffer tanks are not swap out. Propane for me lasts quite a while. If you are rocking and rolling daily with your truckmount, which will be your goal, man I think that would be a pain to find a different fuel source for heat. I know the tank will be larger, but still.

 

[Mikey P]

As much as we make fun of TCS on here, they're not bad units. I've seen more negative feedback on sapphire models and hydra masters than I've seen with TCS.

Matt, how many units a year would you guess SS sells ?

and TCS?


Of course you'll hear more complaints.

 

[FredC]

however, it says it's 120,000 BTU's and I don't know if that's enough? I usually go by temperature at the machine, and obviously at the wand.... so I don't know what 120,000 BTU's means exactly as it relates to actual temperature?

According to little giant with the 3ht you can expect a temp rise of:
2.5 GPM – 60° Rise
1.25 GPM – 120° Rise

your incoming water temp + the rise at flow rate would be ~your expected temp (continuous flow)



The cheifII runs a 4HT heater

3.75 GPM (60° Rise)
1.87 GPM (120° Rise)


The actual temp is usually higher (up to the high limit) because most of the time you aren't running continuous.

 

[alexcarpets]

As much as we make fun of TCS on here, they're not bad units. I've seen more negative feedback on sapphire models and hydra masters than I've seen with TCS. You really need make certain you have several filling spots for propane and don't mind the extra expense and maybe hassle of maintaining a separate fuel source.

As for CFM, you'll be fine with either. Especially since you were originally considering using a portable. Just keep in mind that if you ever decide to get rid of your TCS, you won't get what you want if you ever want to swap it out for a bigger unit. But if Price is a major concern, then TCS is probably your best bet since the "Nikey" companies are so over inflated right now.

Another option is to find the closest dealer and ask what they're best at servicing. Buy a used one of those units and spend the extra money to get them to look over it with a magnifying glass before you install it. It might be the same price as the lower model TCS, but it will be heat exchanger and have more CFM with the 4008 or similar blower. Keep in mind, you won't be slammed with work, so you'll have time to learn the unit when any kinks happen.

Question regarding wanting to upgrade. What type of jobs would I be getting where this wouldn't suffice. Obviously there are the odd jobs that'll have ridiculous hose runs, or require super suction for water extraction.... but outside of those outliers, I'm wondering if there are common jobs I'd want to tackle, such as carpets, tile/grout, light water extraction, etc... that this machine won't be able to handle?

You suggestion of visiting a local dealer and seeing what they have on hand, used, is a great option. I would feel more confident if it was coming from a reputable dealer and they provided a "certified used" type of look over on the unit. How would I go about finding one in the area? What would I even search in Google?

Thank you for the great input!

 

[alexcarpets]

I buy quite a bit of propane for my buffers and did even buy it for my little giant heater
which uses swap out tanks. The buffer tanks are not swap out. Propane for me lasts quite a while. If you are rocking and rolling daily with your truckmount, which will be your goal, man I think that would be a pain to find a different fuel source for heat. I know the tank will be larger, but still.

I'll take your word on this. What you've mentioned seems to be consistent with the "heads-up" I've gotten on propane units in general. Thank you kindly!

 

[alexcarpets]

According to little giant with the 3ht you can expect a temp rise of:
2.5 GPM – 60° Rise
1.25 GPM – 120° Rise

your incoming water temp + the rise at flow rate would be ~your expected temp (continuous flow)



The cheifII runs a 4HT heater

3.75 GPM (60° Rise)
1.87 GPM (120° Rise)


The actual temp is usually higher (up to the high limit) because most of the time you aren't running continuous.

Thank you kindly, @FredC !

 

[Kenny Hayes]

For a first truckmount with all your questions, you ought to look into a SS Rage. I think it would do all you want, and no I don’t have one. Do you have a general distributor that sells and services near you? My distributor would install and maintain anything I buy anywhere?He might gripe a little, but not much

 

[alexcarpets]

For a first truckmount with all your questions, you ought to look into a SS Rage. I think it would do all you want, and no I don’t have one. Do you have a general distributor that sells and services near you? My distributor would install and maintain anything I buy anywhere?He might gripe a little, but not much

I called Hydramaster and they located 2 distributer near me. I’m not sure if they were implying that they do just Hydramaster or all brands.
I just looked at the Rage by SS and have a few questions:
1) What kind of temperature does this unit get the water to?
2) is it capable of carpet, tile, and grout, and water structuris it capable of carpet, tile, and grout, and water extraction?
3) how many feet can I comfortably run this without losing quality?

 

[BIG WOOD]

I called Hydramaster and they located 2 distributer near me. I’m not sure if they were implying that they do just Hydramaster or all brands.
I just looked at the Rage by SS and have a few questions:
1) What kind of temperature does this unit get the water to?
2) is it capable of carpet, tile, and grout, and water structuris it capable of carpet, tile, and grout, and water extraction?
3) how many feet can I comfortably run this without losing quality?

Does any of the dealers have a rage to test on?

 

[hogjowl]

Just don’t get an X-drive

 

[alexcarpets]

Just don’t get an X-drive

What's an X drive? Tried googling it, but the results in the search were not relevant.

 

[alexcarpets]

Does any of the dealers have a rage to test on?

I would have to call and ask but honestly, I really value the input from these forms because it tells me real world experience of existing users.

 

[FredC]

What's an X drive? Tried googling it, but the results in the search were not relevant.

It was/is hydramasters solution to not being able to put a direct drive in the "euro" style vans like the Transit. It uses a generator mounted to the engine to provide power to an electric motor running the blower/pump/etc. Uses coolant and blower heat exchangers for heat.

edit:

CDS xDrive for Ford Transit - HydraMaster

This patent pending design provides the most consistent power delivery control to the vacuum blower and other major components of ANY truckmount...

hydramaster.com

 

[alexcarpets]

I called Hydramaster and they located 2 distributer near me. I’m not sure if they were implying that they do just Hydramaster or all brands.
I just looked at the Rage by SS and have a few questions:
1) What kind of temperature does this unit get the water to?
2) is it capable of carpet, tile, and grout, and water structuris it capable of carpet, tile, and grout, and water extraction?
3) how many feet can I comfortably run this without losing quality?

If anyone has this info... It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

 

[Kenny Hayes]

I just seen on Marketplace a guy in Virginia has a Chief for $5700. 500hrs. He shows it running.

 

[FredC]

If anyone has this info... It would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance!

It's an entry level truckmount which will not perform "well" in those scenarios but you have to start somewhere. I'd rather run it than a porty keeping it's limitations (1000psi max, #3 blower, etc) in mind.

 

[hogjowl]

If we’re still talking about a Rage, just get a Chief.

 

[alexcarpets]

It was/is hydramasters solution to not being able to put a direct drive in the "euro" style vans like the Transit. It uses a generator mounted to the engine to provide power to an electric motor running the blower/pump/etc. Uses coolant and blower heat exchangers for heat.

edit:

CDS xDrive for Ford Transit - HydraMaster

This patent pending design provides the most consistent power delivery control to the vacuum blower and other major components of ANY truckmount...

hydramaster.com

Ah! Got it! Thank you!!