powermax

[Rex Tyus]

rex..i didnt groom the first time i cleaned and the owner didnt like the marks, so out they come..
i mix the powermax at 6oz per gallon for this job..and i mix it HOT HOT HOT

That would be 48 oz in hydroforce at 8 to 1. If I had to mix anything that strong to get it to work it would be a one time purchase. No offense I know you like that stuff but DAMN that would get expensive. If it cost half as much but you use 3 times as much how much more does it really cost?

 

[Farenheit251]

After talking w/ Dave I decided to try using a pump up instead of a hydroforce. So far it seems like the carpets are cleaning up better and are dryer. Can't believe how little prespray I am using-usually two gallons does a whole house. Doesn't seem like enough to thoroughly wet out the fiber but the results are what counts.

 

[Rex Tyus]

I respect the old school guys that like to spritz on the prespray. But that ain't for me. I have neither the time nor the patients to mix up a pump up on every job. Powder goes in a 6 gal bucket the night before or morning of. Add 5 gal of water mix with drill and paint mixer attachment fill 4 HF jugs. Put on shelve in truck go clean like hell, return to shop.

I would pull my freaking hair out if I had to mix a new jug or sprayer at every job. What a waste of freaken time. But hey if'n it is working for ya, keep on trucking brother.

 

[Farenheit251]

When I used the HF I usually used one cup of powermax w/ no metering tip in the hydroforce. Sometimes 2 cups on a trashed restaurant. At $1 a cup not worrying bout it too much. As far as I could tell it diluted the same as Powerburst and Prozyme.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Not get into an argument over this stuff but I have used PB,PZ and power max amoung MANY other presprays. It takes AT LEAST twice as much Powermax as it does PZ or PB. AND the Powermax expires much more rapidly than any prespray I have ever used. It has an even worse shelf life than that prekleen shit from chemspec.

 

[davegillfishing]

rex i hear that a lot about the pump up sprayer..i dont see the big deal, everyone says how long it takes to us and how much of a pai it is..i dont get it. frank uses the mytee battery one and loves it but i just dont see it being that much faster than a pump up..and look at all you are wasting, it is not necessary to soak the carpet with prespray and everything around it as well.
i go through about 1 5 gallon bucket of powermax a month..at 89$ per bucket that is not bad if you ask me..we do 4-5 jobs per day 6 days a week and everything get sprayed..i dont see how it is so expensive..shelf life is not a issue for us because we are pretty good at mixing what we need, we rarely waste any and if we do it is such a small amount. different things work for different people and different set ups..we are running ro water for a rinse, that may make a difference also..
dave

 

[Able 1]

I have a restaurant that I do every 6 months if it needs it or not!

 

[Rex Tyus]

I hear ya Dave. Honestly I ain't knocking you or Powermax. I went through a couple of buckets my self. It just doens't fit for me. I truly am a soaker. I make no excuses or appologies for it. I think your RO water definately has something to do with your results (at least from what I have read about it). It seem to be good stuff. Of all the presprays i have used I have not found one that is as much better than another to make me change my style of cleaning. I am very effiecient and effective. As far as actual product usage we are pretty close by comparison.

Like I said before if it is working for you by all means keep doing what works. I just have to point out the cost savings that some think they are acheiving can be lost on dilution ratio's, shelf life and time for those that clean any where near the same style as me.

Happy Hunting.

 

[davegillfishing]

i hear ya..i used to love butlers pre spray and have used a bunch of others but landed on the powermax..
man if we had a dollar for every open chemical we had and didnt like we all would be rich..except mikey because he gets all his stuff for free..begging little dick he is

 

[Larry Cobb]

Just a comment on CONCENTRATION...

Everybody puts down a different quantity of prespray.

The guy using a pump-up will always spray less solution,
compared to the inline sprayer.

We use more chemical per gallon in a pump-up, than we would use in an inline sprayer.

One other comment about testing a prespray:

They should be tested side-by-side on the same carpet for a meaningful test.

We like to test a dollars worth of PowerMax to a dollars worth of the national brand.

That gives you a "value" comparison.

The PowerMax we formulate consists of:

1. A detergent/builder system

2. Citrus solvent

3. Actual Enzyme

4. Oxidizer

Only the oxidizer would lose effectiveness over an 8 hour work day.

Larry

 

[Greenie]

You can argue method of application all day long, bottom line, time is money, you have a fiduciary responsibility to your wallet to git er' done quick.

Personally, nothing was more frustrating than a pump sprayer...like a step back into the dark ages, a 100 psi corded sprayer will put down the juice 3X as fast as a pump up, and no pumping every 2 mins., an inline sprayer will be 2X as fast as a battery. It is what it is.

Dave, you running any chems through the butler?

 

[Rex Tyus]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Powermax is the only prespray I can recall promoting a LOWER concentration in the HF than in the pump up.

No need to get defensive Larry. I already said I ain't knocking your prespray. It is a decent product. It just didn't work for me the way it seems to for everyone else. And my math does not give an edge to a dollars worth of Powermax vs any other 10+ ph powder. But you don't need me you have lots of guys that like it just fine. That is good with me. I hope you sell lots of it. I may even order some more myself oneday. If I ever take the time to premix at each individual appointment.

 

[Larry Cobb]

Rex;

You need to use what works best in your system of cleaning.

The PowerMax would work well without the oxidizer in the formulation.

The oxidizer just prevents stains from reappearing as the carpet dries.

Larry

 

[davegillfishing]

You can argue method of application all day long, bottom line, time is money, you have a fiduciary responsibility to your wallet to git er' done quick.

Personally, nothing was more frustrating than a pump sprayer...like a step back into the dark ages, a 100 psi corded sprayer will put down the juice 3X as fast as a pump up, and no pumping every 2 mins., an inline sprayer will be 2X as fast as a battery. It is what it is.

Dave, you running any chems through the butler?

no..i had the system built without a chem pump.

 

[Mikey P]

The oxidizer just prevents stains from reappearing as the carpet dries.

Huh?


If it gets rinsed out what and how would a oxidizer do to help wicking?

 

[The Preacher]

i use 2112 from CSN. it has all the stuff PM has and it works real good!!!

 

[TimP]

Rex has a different style than I do mainly because of the mix all in the AM thing.


I have used the powermax and have good results with it. It is cheaper than Powerburst for me but the time Rex would use would probably cost him the difference in price. Anyway the way I see it I mix 4 oz per gallon of Powermax and it costs about 13 bucks shipped for a 6.5# tub (of course on free freight deals). Powerbreak/Powerburst is 32 bucks for 6.5lbs in cases and you mix 2 oz per gallon, and have to purchase enough for free freight. That makes it equivilent to $26 powermax to 32 for powerburst in RTU cost compairson. Now if you mix 6 oz per gallon of powermax and apply the same rates then powerburst at 2 oz per gallon is cheaper. However I think that at 2 oz per gallon powerburst is a better cleaner than powermax at 4 oz per gallon but not by much but it lacks O2. But for 99% of stuff I clean I don't need powerburst.

For me powermax makes more sense. I mix at every job (partially because I change PS dilutions/chemicals/deodorizers depending on what I'm cleaning) with hot water in my battery sprayer.....up to 5 gallons at a time and it takes me maybe 5 minutes to mix it up.

 

[Able 1]

What is the ph of powermax? I would only use powerburst on cgd because the ph is like 11 or so... Do you use a product over 9.5 on residential? I think powerburst is dirt cheap! I really don't care about price though it's all about the product for me. If you go cheap on your prespray you could be considered a hack!

Let's see I run 1/2 gal. of ultra pac to a HF that is $17.00 everytime I fill it up... But it make me is about $1,200!
I just don't know why anyone would really care about price of a pre-spray find one you like because of what it IS not the f'n price you cheap A$$ ...

I'm really not endorsing any product I just use what I like and the price dosen't really matter. I do like to have the product in town but, next year I will be chaging somethings. Powerburst will always be in my arsenal.

 

[wired]

Powerburst and ultra pac is without question the best. Used it for many years never let me down. Products will come and go but these will always be top dog.

 

[Mikey P]

Half gallon of Ultrapak in a HF?

What are you metering it at?

 

[Able 1]

12 to 1 right now, I do use the 712 if that makes a dif..

 

[floorguy]

so uh jim what was the problem exactly????

I got my 3 pails nooo issue...

a little more on "handling" but hey what ever not a deal breaker...probably pays for the card board they come in

 

[Greenie]

Overall I've come to the conclusion some guys just don't care about pH levels and such....to each his own.

Guess I should work on a 13 pH prespray that isn't necessarily cost effective, cause the PowerBurst UltraPak crowd is used to getting bent over. :shock:

 

[TimP]

There is far more carpet out there that you don't worry about stain resist warranty then there is that you do worry about. That's the biggest reason why we go with the lethal stuff. I'd probably be a powerburst guy myself for when not worrying about stain resist warranty but the stuff bothers my lungs. That's why I'm a powermax guy....it's cheaper and it's not bad on your lungs. And so far it has done well to clean stuff for me.

For stuff I worry about PH and stain resist warranty I use Judson O2. That's all I really carry on the truck. I've been experimenting with rinses and I haven't decided. Right now I'm using prochem heat-wave. It smells a lot like powerburst for sure and is red. It mixes well and don't seem to have a bunch of fillers....at least it seams like that so far. I don't think it's clogging stuff up like point blue seems to. I tried dry slurry and I think I like the point blue better. I'm going to have to try the judson rinse again. I also have some soap free masterblend that I'm going to try next.

 

[TimP]

Not to beat a dead horse, but Powermax is the only prespray I can recall promoting a LOWER concentration in the HF than in the pump up.

Just for the Record....if you look at the Label for Power Burst it has different dilutions for pump up sprayers. Injection sprayers 6 scoops pump up 2 scoops per gallon.


11.25 gallons 9-1 injection that's about 1 oz per gallon. A 4-1 sprayer would be 6.25 gallons or about 2 oz per gallon. 4 oz per gallon for pump up. So different dilutions any way you go about it.

 

[Rex Tyus]

6 scoops is 12 oz. at 8 to 1 that would be 12 oz in 9 gallons. 1.333 oz per gal. I should have said SIGNIFICANTLY LOWER for the anal retentive crowd. :roll:

The directions on Cobbs powermax is 8 oz to the Fn gallon for pump up. It has no recommendation for the hf. Even if you cut that in half that would still be 36 oz for a HF container. My math does not have that cost effective. This is comparing recommended ratio to recommended ratio.

 

[Jim Martin]

There is far more carpet out there that you don't worry about stain resist warranty then there is that you do worry about.

For stuff I worry about PH and stain resist warranty I use Judson O2.

so what temps did you say you were running......????

 

[XTREME1]

there is more to neutralizing pH than a pH scale.

 

[Rex Tyus]

Just for the Record....if you look at the Label for Power Burst it has different dilutions for pump up sprayers. Injection sprayers 6 scoops pump up 2 scoops per gallon.


11.25 gallons 9-1 injection that's about 1 oz per gallon. A 4-1 sprayer would be 6.25 gallons or about 2 oz per gallon. 4 oz per gallon for pump up. So different dilutions any way you go about it.

I don't have a powerburst lable in front of me but the powerbreak ( bridgepoint competive product) the lable CLEARLY SAYS 1 SCOOP per gallon up to 2 may be used. Compare that to 8 oz per gallon of powermax add and subtract the price the freight or whatever you want to then factor in the weather or whatever you want to and I still say it may be a decent product but if you are buying it cause it is "cheap" you are kidding yourself.

 

[Greenie]

Larry doesn't have HydroForce instructions?