Pro1200se

SamIam

Supportive Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
8,704
Location
California
Name
sam miller
So here's where I'am at now. HUGO TRIED everything and even called some of his mechanic friends.

When it cold it runs great, when it hot it goes into limp mode.

And the injector code lights up.
He took off the airflow sensor and it ran great.

He believes its could possibly the catylic converter.

But he said hes not charging me anything.

And to take it to the dealership.

He left the clutch drive in place but removed the seats and Doghouse.

I took it back to the local dealership and showed them.

They brought out the service manager and he said it looks like there's plenty of room to operate and that they'll work on it.

Here's hoping they can find the problem and get it going.

I wish I was more mechanical and able to heat shield all the wires.

I'll have this thing for 3 years in march and 42000 miles on it. Was hoping to get a solid 5 and sell it.

But I feel bad selling it to anybody now
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cleanworks

SamIam

Supportive Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
8,704
Location
California
Name
sam miller
My ultimate thought is Sapphire doesn't charge as much as say Butler, CDS and CLeanco are comparable price wise but they include some features to protect the van.

I know Sapphire has fixes for the summit.

They need to help existing owners get thier units running and protected.

Sell a upgrade kit at cost, and allow the distributors mechanic to install fixes that the owner of the pro1200 pays the mechanic to do.

It's worth getting the upgrades at a good deal.

The good deal gives us hope and helps to reduce our down time which in some cases is bordering on rediculous.


Wire heats shielding fan upgrade whatever it takes to make end users happy again.
 
Last edited:

Cleanworks

Supportive Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
15,708
Location
New Westminster,BC
Name
Ron Marriott
My ultimate thought is Sapphire doesn't charge as much as say Butler, CDS and CLeanco are comparable price wise but they include some features to protect the van.

I know Sapphire has fixes for the summit.

but they need to help existing owners get thier units running a protected.

sell a upgrade kit at cost, and allow the distributors mechanic to install fixes that the owner of the pro1200 pays.

it worth getting the upgrades at a good deal.

the good deal gives us hope and helps to reduce our down time which in some cases is bordering on rediculous.


Wire heats shielding fan upgrade whatever it takes to make end users happy again.
You can get high temperature spark plug wires. About $150 for a set.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SamIam

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
83,742
Location
The High Chapperal
My ultimate thought is Sapphire doesn't charge as much as say Butler, CDS and CLeanco are comparable price wise but they include some features to protect the van.

I know Sapphire has fixes for the summit.

but they need to help existing owners get thier units running a protected.

sell a upgrade kit at cost, and allow the distributors mechanic to install fixes that the owner of the pro1200 pays.

it worth getting the upgrades at a good deal.

the good deal gives us hope and helps to reduce our down time which in some cases is bordering on rediculous.


Wire heats shielding fan upgrade whatever it takes to make end users happy again.

Did you call Laura?

Trying to make heads or tales of your tourettish rants is as much of a clusterfuvk as your wiring issues
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: Lee Stockwell

Chris A

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
5,283
Location
OH
Name
Chris
call Laura.



Bitching on Yelp will get you nowhere.
Did you see the Facebook thread where literally everyone who's every bought a pro1200se, and is active on FB has chimed in with the same issues? It's not like Sam is alone in this? I'm taking mine in so I don't really have a dog in the didn't anymore but their "fix" is anything but...
 
  • Like
Reactions: SamIam

Chris A

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
5,283
Location
OH
Name
Chris
Not to mention our mutual friends in Florida and Arizona who haven't spoke up but sold their 1200s awful quick after buying them...
 
  • Like
Reactions: hogjowl

Radar Foster

Mr Personality
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
10,417
Location
Stoughton,MA
Name
Fred Boyle
Perhaps the my tee Legend Brands can buy a Brand new Butler and reverse engineer what components are different and possibly causing the issue


totally sucks Sam, and you’re a good guy for not wanting to dump this problem onto someone else

REALLY sucks that you are relatively mechanically inclined to run slide ins all these years, only to switch to a direct drive for simplicity and get this lemon
 

Radar Foster

Mr Personality
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Messages
10,417
Location
Stoughton,MA
Name
Fred Boyle
Damned if I know, but I remember Sam mentioning how the PRO1200 directs the blower exhaust straight down under the truck.... I imagine that the temp under the van is constantly much hotter and humid than a PTO that diverts it away from the undercarriage
 

Chris A

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
5,283
Location
OH
Name
Chris
I think that has something to do with it, I also think running the van at 1000-1300 rpms, compared to the others 1700 or so may affect cooling
 

Chris A

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
5,283
Location
OH
Name
Chris
I also can't speak for Sam, but my 2 rigs have been maintained to the letter of the manual. My dealers only a half hour away so I have them do everything and have all records
 

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
83,742
Location
The High Chapperal
Did you see the Facebook thread where literally everyone who's every bought a pro1200se, and is active on FB has chimed in with the same issues? It's not like Sam is alone in this? I'm taking mine in so I don't really have a dog in the didn't anymore but their "fix" is anything but...
I saw it but didn't study the comments.
When you say the fix, do you mean the recent set of re-engeneered replacement parts that were being offered?

Those were announced back in September I believe, no good?
 

Chris A

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
5,283
Location
OH
Name
Chris
The fix is a flex fan direct bolted to the water pump. I'm not sure what testing they did but it broke the pulley off of my brand new water pump within a month. I did the spark plug and wire fix about a year-and-a-half ago on both vans and both are showing signs of needing plugs and wires again which is about $1,000 because of how much of a pain in the ass it is to get to them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SamIam

SamIam

Supportive Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
8,704
Location
California
Name
sam miller
The fix is a flex fan direct bolted to the water pump. I'm not sure what testing they did but it broke the pulley off of my brand new water pump within a month. I did the spark plug and wire fix about a year-and-a-half ago on both vans and both are showing signs of needing plugs and wires again which is about $1,000 because of how much of a pain in the ass it is to get to them.

As bad as Hugo the mechanic was at finding my problem.

He pulled the seats and slid the dog house out unscrewed plastic piece.

And there's a lot more room to operate.

I'm sure doing it this way is cheaper then having a distributor pull the direct drive and replace it.

$650 and that's with out having work done on the van.

If you want the doghouse out on these Van's the seat has to come out anyway
 

SamIam

Supportive Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2012
Messages
8,704
Location
California
Name
sam miller
The real issue isn't that they made fixes!

Its can they be trusted to help end users if say there's other issues????

Right now I would say no.
 

Mark Saiger

Mr Happy!
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
10,939
Location
Grand Rapids, MN
Name
Mark Saiger
as impartial shEEtrockhED that doesn't do faqbook to hear the scuttlebutt ….
but know Sam and Chris aren't clueless dolts...

what's the big difference under the hood and covers in Butlers, HMs and Cleancolds that they don't seem to suffer so greatly?

..L.T.A.
Well I know but not sure I should share everything...

Oh what the heck....
*All stainless
*Front fan clutch switched to a non thermal clutch
*Larger fan installed and it gets pulled back a bit so the radiator shroud has a small modification
*Those couple of items help to cool the entire unit all the way to the back of the van
* units placement in the van balanced for the van.. *So one ton units will get an upgraded coil spring in front
*smaller alternator required so the drive shaft fits nice and easy under the hood with an amazing clutch and NO GREASE shaft!
*thermostat taken out of the motor and an external thermostat installed with the perfect amount of space for the thermostat now to get ultimate heat from the Butler and the Butler and van together run at a perfect temp.... All the time!
*with above it's important to run with the van hood closed
*Their heat exchanger set up also helps with the flow of the van so captures max heat from van and the second heat exchanger off the Blower. *Great suction due to large plumbing for vaccum yet it also helps the entire unit.
*Dual belts so you don't have to worry about perfect single belt alignment
*These are a few items that come to mind

*we have put on thousands of miles and thousands of hours on our Butlers and vans
 

Cleanworks

Supportive Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
15,708
Location
New Westminster,BC
Name
Ron Marriott
I have no experience with Butler, except for trying out Marks a couple of times. Here we mainly have Hydramasters and Cleancos. Not sure what modifications they make to the vehicles but you will see many cleaning units that have far outlasted the van they were installed in. Not uncommon for someone to buy a 20 year old unit with thousands of hours on it for a back up machine or starter machine. Part of the problem seems to be the GM van. I remember Bryan (Great Oz) saying something about problems with new Hydramasters.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris A

Mikey P

Administrator
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Messages
83,742
Location
The High Chapperal
I was very very close to buying a new Butler, my experience with these two trucks has turned me away from direct drive all together but I truly believe Butler's are top-notch machines and an even better company
Were you or the other disgruntled 1200 owners popping the hood on every job?

I know Butler says not to but sounds like a probable fix for the 1200 baking issues
 

Chris A

Member
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
5,283
Location
OH
Name
Chris
I never have, on any direct drive I've owned (5). I was always told not to.
 

Cleanworks

Supportive Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2012
Messages
15,708
Location
New Westminster,BC
Name
Ron Marriott
The more you restrict the air flow, the faster the air moves, carrying away the hot air and replacing with cooler air. The difference between a snail fan and an open face fan. Opening the hood allows the pressure to escape and all that hot air coming off the exhaust manifold and pipes will rise up and cook everything above it. Larger and more efficient fan will help rather than opening the hood. On very hot days here, which happen once or twice a year, we put a fan in front of the vehicle on long jobs to mimick going down the highway.
 

The Great Oz

Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2006
Messages
4,103
Location
seattle
Name
bryan
I remember Bryan (Great Oz) saying something about problems with new Hydramasters.
We, and many other larger fleet cleaning companies, buy direct drives because they're more reliable and require less maintenance than slide-ins. I don't have any experience with brands other than HydraMaster so can't tell anyone what the differences may be.

The only problem we've had that was a mistake on HM's part was the year they experimented with automotive plastic water fittings. They didn't last.

Otherwise, the issues we've had more recently are all changes made by GM to maximize profit, and that ultimately affected reliability. Doesn't matter what's in the van if the van itself is an issue.
 

Top Bottom