pto/ slide in questions

[alexcarpets]

Drop the water tank and you'll be fine. I know the oldies in this conversation will harass me for saying that, but you'll realize that you'll hook up to the customer's water on nearly every job and very few will require you to provide your own water, UNLESS you live in a severely cold area with dangerous freezing temps. Only then will you need to carry water on almost every job. And on big jobs, a 100gallon water tank isn't enough to do the whole job anyway.

Less weight, longer life in the van's transmission. I have 2 setups. One has a water tank and the other does not. I haven't needed to bring my own water on the second setup yet

Pros on not carrying a big water tank:
Less strain on the van's drivetrain and brakes
More space in the van for other things and space to be able to work on your machine

Cons:
For severely cold temps
A tank would be needed for the unprepared customer who is too cheap to turn on their water at their empty rental that doesn't pay $squat$ in between tenants (you don't want those kind of customers anyway)

I think the happy medium is possibly having a smaller tank and not going with 120 gallons, which is quite a bit. Perhaps a 90 gallon which is what the 570 already comes with standard. If I do that, I could possibly go with a Mercedes sprinter 2500, correct? It’s a 3/4 ton 4 cylinder diesel NOT a 1-ton.

Here's the math I'm doing:

Water weight: 90 gallons = 750 lbs
Apex 570 TM (Standard Install Package weight) = 1420 lbs
Hoses, Reels, Wands, Accessories = Approximately 800 lbs
Driver = 200 lbs

Total = 3170 lbs
Sprinter Payload Capacity (below) = 4211 lbs

According to my math, I'd still be about 1100 lbs under, but the key question is, does the math look right? Or am I missing some key items?

Another factor to consider is the diesel engine of the sprinter. This 4 cylinder vehicle, but because it's diesel, has a decent amount of torque (specs included below).

Overall, will this setup work? 3/4 ton, standard length Sprinter van, with the Apex 570? I just don't want to be in a position where I have to upgrade the entire vehicle because my math was off, or I overlooked something.


Edit:

(i) Assuming the math works, would I have to then carry external gasoline in the cargo for the Apex, as it runs on unleaded?
(ii.) IF the above math works, would I be able to get away with the V6 on the GMC 3500 extended wheelbase? I know payload wise it's fine, but not sure if the V6 engine can keep up, is why I'm asking.

 

[alexcarpets]

It doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone buying a Butler System these days.

I would assume they reduce the water tank size?

 

[alexcarpets]

I have the 100+ gallon water tank and same size recovery tank and my van does fine.
Yes, it has a pump clutch

Thanks for sharing. Which vehicle do you have? Make/Model/Engine Size?

Thanks again!

 

[Doug Cox]

I think the happy medium is possibly having a smaller tank and not going with 120 gallons, which is quite a bit. Perhaps a 90 gallon which is what the 570 already comes with standard. If I do that, I could possibly go with a Mercedes sprinter 2500, correct? It’s a 3/4 ton 4 cylinder diesel NOT a 1-ton.

Here's the math I'm doing:

Water weight: 90 gallons = 750 lbs
Apex 570 TM (Standard Install Package weight) = 1420 lbs
Hoses, Reels, Wands, Accessories = Approximately 800 lbs
Driver = 200 lbs

Total = 3170 lbs
Sprinter Payload Capacity (below) = 4211 lbs

According to my math, I'd still be about 1100 lbs under, but the key question is, does the math look right? Or am I missing some key items?

Another factor to consider is the diesel engine of the sprinter. This 4 cylinder vehicle, but because it's diesel, has a decent amount of torque (specs included below).

Overall, will this setup work? 3/4 ton, standard length Sprinter van, with the Apex 570? I just don't want to be in a position where I have to upgrade the entire vehicle because my math was off, or I overlooked something.


Edit:

(i) Assuming the math works, would I have to then carry external gasoline in the cargo for the Apex, as it runs on unleaded?
(ii.) IF the above math works, would the same not hold true for a 3/4 ton Chevy 2500, v6??


View attachment 126646
View attachment 126647

For some reason I seem to remember being told they don’t make a fuel tap for mercedes

 

[Doug Cox]

I don’t understand how it is that you give so much bad advice on this bulletin board.

Yeah. No shit. I carry water mostly because I use very soft water with no iron in it. As soon as you start tapping off peoples houses, you’re asking for problems, like discoloration in carpets and mostly upholstery and also stiff carpet from water hardness.

 

[Doug Cox]

19 transit 250. 3.7 liter

 

[BIG WOOD]

Yeah. No shit. I carry water mostly because I use very soft water with no iron in it. As soon as you start tapping off peoples houses, you’re asking for problems, like discoloration in carpets and mostly upholstery and also stiff carpet from water hardness.

Ok add that to my small list of reasons to have a tank

But for my area of the country, that’s not a problem thank goodness.

 

[alexcarpets]

For some reason I seem to remember being told they don’t make a fuel tap for mercedes

Thank you for your response. A couple of points:

i.) For the fuel tap, it wouldn't apply as I would be running diesel for the vehicle but unleaded for the Apex 570. That probably means I need to figure out a safe source of unleaded fuel for the Apex 570, if I go with the Sprinter.

ii.) I checked out the specs on the transit 250 and it seems to be 3/4 ton. The GMC 3500 has a payload capacity of 4,280 lbs. (regular); 4,090 lbs. (extended)†. With the setup I described earlier..... will the 3500 extended work if I get the v6 engine... or will I have to go with the v8?

iii.) How much water are you carrying?

 

[bob vawter]

Thank you for your response. A couple of points:

i.) For the fuel tap, it wouldn't apply as I would be running diesel for the vehicle but unleaded for the Apex 570. That probably means I need to figure out a safe source of unleaded fuel for the Apex 570, if I go with the Sprinter.

ii.) I checked out the specs on the transit 250 and it seems to be 3/4 ton. The GMC 3500 has a payload capacity of 4,280 lbs. (regular); 4,090 lbs. (extended)†. With the setup I described earlier..... will the 3500 extended work if I get the v6 engine... or will I have to go with the v8?

iii.) How much water are you carrying?

The boogie man is gonna get you...!

 

[Nate The Great]

19 transit 250. 3.7 liter

Keef has a 2017 transit 3.7 non turbo, and carries 165gallon water tank to supply his Prochem Apex.. It handles fine, funny to see when stopping though, it looks like a couple of midgets wrestling in the back.. He also fills up at home because of water quality..

 

[BIG WOOD]

If water quality was a problem, I would buy a box truck so I would be able to have space to hold a 200 gallon stainless steel tank so I wouldn't need to go back to the house to refill the tank. And if I ever had to use the customer's water, I would buy a specific filter system made to improve the quality of the water going into the machine

You guys need to understand how much room he's wasting if he squeezes a 100gallon tank in chevy express van. Plus, doing maintenance on a slide in is a bitch with that tank in the spot your body needs to be to reach an area of the machine.

@alexcarpets where area you located? That'll determine if you need a tank with a water softening system. IF you do, get a chevy express single axle 12ft box truck. I've bee cleaning 20+years with and without a tank. I don't use a special water softening system. Just a house filter to catch any sediment from the supply side and the carpet over here cleans up just fine

 

[alexcarpets]

If water quality was a problem, I would buy a box truck so I would be able to have space to hold a 200 gallon stainless steel tank so I wouldn't need to go back to the house to refill the tank. And if I ever had to use the customer's water, I would buy a specific filter system made to improve the quality of the water going into the machine

You guys need to understand how much room he's wasting if he squeezes a 100gallon tank in chevy express van. Plus, doing maintenance on a slide in is a bitch with that tank in the spot your body needs to be to reach an area of the machine.

@alexcarpets where area you located? That'll determine if you need a tank with a water softening system. IF you do, get a chevy express single axle 12ft box truck. I've bee cleaning 20+years with and without a tank. I don't use a special water softening system. Just a house filter to catch any sediment from the supply side and the carpet over here cleans up just fine

I live in South Florida, not sure if we have water issues here?

I'd like to have the water tank (90 to 100 gal.) in the vehicle for piece of mind at least. We have parking constraints and the box truck, unfortunately, will not work. For that reason I'm looking at the Sprinter base model, mentioned in my earlier post, with the 4 cylinder diesel, or the GMC 3500 with the 4.3L V6 (v8's are hard to find). I've done the math, and shared specs in my previous post and am wondering if either of these will suffice?

 

[FredC]

Ok add that to my small list of reasons to have a tank

But for my area of the country, that’s not a problem thank goodness.

You don't have a bunch of folks using wells in the boonies of north GA?

 

[BIG WOOD]

You don't have a bunch of folks using wells in the boonies of north GA?

I do and I’ll change the filter out after those jobs

 

[BIG WOOD]

You don't have a bunch of folks using wells in the boonies of north GA?

I live in South Florida, not sure if we have water issues here?

I'd like to have the water tank (90 to 100 gal.) in the vehicle for piece of mind at least. We have parking constraints and the box truck, unfortunately, will not work. For that reason I'm looking at the Sprinter base model, mentioned in my earlier post, with the 4 cylinder diesel, or the GMC 3500 with the 4.3L V6 (v8's are hard to find). I've done the math, and shared specs in my previous post and am wondering if either of these will suffice?

A 10-12ft box truck has the same turning radius as a van

 

[alexcarpets]

A 10-12ft box truck has the same turning radius as a van

It's not the turning radius that's the concern, it's our parking space. We have a balcony overhand that'll not allow the box truck to fit, and obviously it's too big for our garage too.

 

[BIG WOOD]

Then if you’re insistent on having a water tank, I suggest a cleanco or hydranaster direct drive. The water tank won’t interfere with the side of the machine that needs maintenance.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

These questions and responses are (a few inside jabs aside) what every first time truck mount purchaser should discuss.

Too many times I've seen guys with the wrong unit in the wrong van and it is at best nearly unusable, and at worst, unsafe.

This is one of those threads that should be referred back to in years to come by new cleaners and first time truck mount buyers.

 

[Doug Cox]

Then if you’re insistent on having a water tank, I suggest a cleanco or hydranaster direct drive. The water tank won’t interfere with the side of the machine that needs maintenance.

Dude, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The water tank would obviously be on the opposite side from recovery tank, which would not be in the way. It wouldn’t fit across the van because the recovery tank would be in the way and would have no access to maintenance, so I doubt they would
mount it that way. Unless, he’s talking about a water pond, then scratch what I said.

 

[Doug Cox]

I live in South Florida, not sure if we have water issues here?

As far as I’m concerned, everywhere has water issues

 

[BIG WOOD]

Dude, you don’t know what you’re talking about. The water tank would obviously be on the opposite side from recovery tank, which would not be in the way. It wouldn’t fit across the van because the recovery tank would be in the way and would have no access to maintenance, so I doubt they would
mount it that way. Unless, he’s talking about a water pond, then scratch what I said.

I've helped my friend several times work on his 570 with the water tank on the left side and parallel to the tm and it is a pain in the ass to do anything to that machine. I know a little more than you think

 

[ronbeatty]

Have you considered the Aerotech direct drive?

 

[hogjowl]

Have you considered the Aerotech direct drive?

He’s already ducking Butler because of its price.
Although, a new van and a 570 would be right there in the same price range I bet.

 

[BIG WOOD]

Have you considered the Aerotech direct drive?

Someone told me that Aerotech is planning to get an unleaded engine in their future setup with the bigger one you have. As for the Jondon version in a van... Does anyone on here own one besides zr?

 

[Doug Cox]

I've helped my friend several times work on his 570 with the water tank on the left side and parallel to the tm and it is a pain in the ass to do anything to that machine. I know a little more than you think

Only a dumbass would put it that way

 

[BIG WOOD]

Only a dumbass would put it that way

To center the weight over the axles, that’s the best way to set it up.

 

[FredC]

To center the weight over the axles

why?

 

[BIG WOOD]

why?

The right side of the van will lean. When the tank is half full you’ll feel the water sloshing around while driving between stoplights, causing premature wear on the brakes.

I have my water tank on the right side of my big box truck and I regret putting it there for those reasons.

 

[hogjowl]

So, let me see if I “understand” you, feeling the water sloshing around in your tank causes your foot to hit the brakes?

 

[FredC]

The right side of the van will lean. When the tank is half full you’ll feel the water sloshing around while driving between stoplights, causing premature wear on the brakes.

I have my water tank on the right side of my big box truck and I regret putting it there for those reasons.

it doesn't have baffles?

I can't really remember it being an issue with my big white magic tank (in 3500 gmc)