Question for northern cleaners with direct drives

[Bob Savage]

You shouldn't need a transfer pump going from the water pond to the Cat 5CP pump. Cat pumps will draw on their own.

If they can't solve the problem over the phone, they need to pay you a visit and personally look at it, IMO.

When I was building ETM's, a customer of mine was having a problem on a new machine, and we couldn't solve it over the phone, so I flew from Ohio to Houston, Texas, on my dime, and fixed it for them.

Just saying.

 

[Jim Martin]

We waited all day and we had to call because TW never called. He couldn't help because he said he was not too familiar with the 1200's because their new. OK I understand that. We called Ron Williams at Sapphire and he went through all the basic stuff. Then it got insulting with questions like "maybe your running the solution line through snow and at 500 feet of line"? Come on really ? He suggested we didn't give the van enough time to warm up. I knew that wasn't the case but for the sake of testing it we drove the van for 30 minutes then started the machine keyed the wand for 20 minutes and no change ( and that was inside a warm garage) and it was in the 40's outside. (Yes we had the exhaust vented outside with exhaust hose) So after all was said and done he said he was out of answers.

John we have been back in the 40's and even a few 50's for temps so that is not the issue. The lie detector won't help much. It's not hot plain and simple. I can use my fingers for that and it's just warm.

Jim We could not get over 170 before the transfer pump issue either. We did 4 jobs before the cold snap with temps in the 50's and we never got above 170

I understand sometimes new machines have issues and it's most likely simple and I don't want to make a big deal out of it. I just don't think I should have to wrench on a $50,000 plus brand new machine any more. I have over 20 hours of working on it taking up my nights and a few Saturday afternoons. I shouldn't have to do anymore. I think Sapphire needs to send someone out to fix it.

seems to me all your getting is therm valve temps....so that says that the thing is probably opening and dumping into you waste tank....and not allowing the water to heat up.....
easy enough to find out.....there should be a plastic 1/4 inch hose hooked to the waste tank...fire up the machine and get it up as hot as it will go and take the hose off and see if it is dumping water into the waste tank.....

 

[Jim Martin]

You shouldn't need a transfer pump going from the water pond to the Cat 5CP pump. Cat pumps will draw on their own.

If they can't solve the problem over the phone, they need to pay you a visit and personally look at it, IMO.

When I was building ETM's, a customer of mine was having a problem on a new machine, and we couldn't solve it over the phone, so I flew from Ohio to Houston, Texas, on my dime, and fixed it for them.

Just saying.

arent they using a transfer pump to feed a water box/mixing tank that in turn feeds the cat pump.......??

 

[Mark Saiger]

If you are going to clean in the cold, would relocate any water lines you can to the inside....just my humble opinion....and some experience

Mark Saiger

 

[Bob Savage]

arent they using a transfer pump to feed a water box/mixing tank that in turn feeds the cat pump.......??

Does the water box also mix in chemicals (water box/mixing tank) on the SS truckmounts? I'm not familiar with that setup.

I have a slide-in with a Cat pump, and the water tank is just a BIG water box, and, the Dwyer siphons chemical into the incoming water feed line. I thought SS used last-step chemical injection.

No transfer pump - no water box on my setup.

 

[Jim Martin]

Does the water box also mix in chemicals (water box/mixing tank) on the SS truckmounts? I'm not familiar with that setup.

I have a slide-in with a Cat pump, and the water tank is just a BIG water box, and, the Dwyer siphons chemical into the incoming water feed line. I thought SS used last-step chemical injection.

No transfer pump - no water box on my setup.

I know my CDS ....and thermal wave and 570....all have water boxes that feed the pump....you have to supply the water box to supply the pump......

 

[FredC]

no water bo (keyboard won't type last letter)

http://www.sapphirescientific.com/U...MANUAL SAPPHIRE PRO-1200 REV A 9-29-11_01.pdf

 

[hogjowl]

I agree as I don't understand all shit stirring. Sapphire will handle the issue as they have shown to do with past issues and John is being very responsive, so again why the shit stirring?


Don't you need to be looking for belts for your unit?

Is it "shit stirring" to ask a logical question? I think it is completely logical to wonder why a person went (what 2000 miles away?) across country to buy a unit, when he could get it 200 miles away. I don't think it's "shit stirring" to question the wisdom of the decision when I see him now having to handle this long distance, and by phone. Is it "shit stirring" to believe it would have been much simpler to buy it locally and have a place where he can drive to in a couple to three hours and have a human, with a vested interest, take a look at it.

In fact, my comments are only an issue because you folks chose to make them one.

If you weren't feeling the heat, you wouldn't have been so sensitive as to take my comments to be "shit stirring".

Fix his problem, and your issues will be solved.

 

[knoxclean]

Heard from John today and he had Sapphire call me and set me up to go to a Guy in Nashville 3 hours away. They want this figured out as much as I do and I appreciate them for following up with me. I will have it there Monday morning and I'm sure it will be taken care of. As for why I bought from John 3000 miles away I talked to several places when looking. I always had respect for John from the boards and he also was good to deal with when I needed other supplies. I have no local distributor so it doesn't matter if I buy it from someone 300 miles away or 3000. I bought from Butler in the past so its the same deal.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

You shouldn't need a transfer pump going from the water pond to the Cat 5CP pump. Cat pumps will draw on their own.

If they can't solve the problem over the phone, they need to pay you a visit and personally look at it, IMO.

When I was building ETM's, a customer of mine was having a problem on a new machine, and we couldn't solve it over the phone, so I flew from Ohio to Houston, Texas, on my dime, and fixed it for them.

Just saying.

Didn't David Gargan have problems with one of your machines too Bob?

 

[Lee Stockwell]

no water bo (keyboard won't type last letter)

What kind of websurfing would wear out the xxx key?

 

[Bob Savage]

Yes he did, a heater problem. So I loaded up another heater into my van, and drove half way to meet David and make the exchange.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[FredC]

What kind of websurfing would wear out the xxx key?

lol...didn't even occur to me.

I'm also missing the first three numbers and the one beside the key mentioned....maybe you can figure out the address

 

[hogjowl]

I bet they DO want this resolved, I hope your issues are repaired quickly.

And thanks for sharing this with us.

 

[BradFenstermaker]

Glad a plan is at least in place for a inspection/repair.

Hope it's simple and that truck can start earning its keep.

 

[GCCLee]

Jus Imagine the Wind Chill Factor UNDER yur rig hauling down the HWY. Holy Moses talk about an overly abusive idea there.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

The only water hoses under the rig have antifreeze in them. True of all CDS, pto, and Bane machines. Decades of reliability.

 

[bob vawter]

but why? ya pick-up heat on the top side ot the engine...don make no sense to run it all the way down and back up again...
thru cold ass weather that will most certainly take 10 degrees off ...i bet

 

[shadygrady]

Most everyone would park their van to clean. On my Aqua-Tech, coolant supply and return come thru the floor under the passenger seat.

 

[bob vawter]

 

[knoxclean]

Update.... So I take it to Nashville and a great guy by the name of Chris Pond at Cleaners Depot goes through it with me. Here's what he came up with. He determined the blower was not getting hot enough so the secondary exchanger could heat the incoming water that was preheated by the van. First thing he did was increase the lift from 12 to 14. That added 10 degrees. Then he increased the speed to high (1500) The manual says to use medium unless your duel wanting or have over 300 feet of hose but he said with temps in the winter increasing it to high is needed. Then set the psi on the wand to 400 instead of 500. Then he blocked off the van port and put the machine under a load for about 10 minutes so the blower would get hot and then we were getting temps up to 220. I asked him when we clean in real world situations and have 150-200 feet of vac hose and are not closing off the vac port if we still will get those temps and he said we should. So we'll see what happens.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Chris knows his stuff, have never heard a complaint about his work.

In the deep freeze we run our 405s a notch higher than normal.

 

[hogjowl]

Thanks David. I hope this works for you.

 

[Art Kelley]

Update.... So I take it to Nashville and a great guy by the name of Chris Pond at Cleaners Depot goes through it with me. Here's what he came up with. He determined the blower was not getting hot enough so the secondary exchanger could heat the incoming water that was preheated by the van. First thing he did was increase the lift from 12 to 14. That added 10 degrees. Then he increased the speed to high (1500) The manual says to use medium unless your duel wanting or have over 300 feet of hose but he said with temps in the winter increasing it to high is needed. Then set the psi on the wand to 400 instead of 500. Then he blocked off the van port and put the machine under a load for about 10 minutes so the blower would get hot and then we were getting temps up to 220. I asked him when we clean in real world situations and have 150-200 feet of vac hose and are not closing off the vac port if we still will get those temps and he said we should. So we'lll see what happens.

It sounds like your 1200 is working as it should. I was going to mention blocking off the vac to heat up your blower for ten minutes. If you are sucking in ice cold air, the blower HX will actually cool the water the engine motor HXer heats. Also, this isn't a wimpy Hydramaster or a pathetic Cleanco or a gay Butler unit. Don't be afraid to turn this sucker up to 1550 rpms and 16" of lift, especially in the winter. You won't hurt it and you will increase the heat and the vac performance.

 

[hogjowl]

What's "pathetic" about a Cleanco ? I've never heard a bad thing about them.

 

[Chris A]

It sounds like your 1200 is working as it should. I was going to mention blocking off the vac to heat up your blower for ten minutes. If you are sucking in ice cold air, the blower HX will actually cool the water the engine motor HXer heats. Also, this isn't a wimpy Hydramaster or a pathetic Cleanco or a gay Butler unit. Don't be afraid to turn this sucker up to 1550 rpms and 16" of lift, especially in the winter. You won't hurt it and you will increase the heat and the vac performance.

...so powerful in fact, that you'll go and buy a rotovac cfx, hook it up to the clients faucet, and claim that it does just as good a job...

 

[Art Kelley]

You're not supposed to run them (Cleancos) above 12" of lift. That's like medium speed on a 1200

 

[Art Kelley]

...so powerful in fact, that you'll go and buy a rotovac cfx, hook it up to the clients faucet, and claim that it does just as good a job...

The finished product is just as good (actually better than most) as any TM cleaner could do. The dry times might be longer by a couple of hours due to the 230 cfms on the porty instead of the 500 cfms on the pro1200, and that is something to consider, but it's an insignificant factor, normally.

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

Your so right Art, my Butler Mac vac/heat is so GAY I only get 230-240F at machine all winter long (in summer the needle has no place more to go), and that is all REAL cold temps ALL winter long up here in KANADA. I get over 20OF ATW all winter long running 15 flow at 500 PSI or my Zipper at 600 PSI.

Its so GAY that it gets up to temp so quick.

The 500+ CFM is as GAY as it gets, as well as the factory set 15 HG's of lift.

I have a really GAY 210 Gallon stainless steal fresh water tank and another screaming GAY 200 Gallon stainless steel waste tank. That means I can make more money per day cleaning then filling and dumping. I use pretty close to all that capacity everyday. High flow baby. It's great.

The electric hose reel with 100 ft of 2.5" is pretty GAY, and the HUGE filter box with ultra low restriction that is just so easy to to use, it just has to be GAY. After each job I replace the 5 gallon nylon disposable bag for $0.79 cents. Screaming vacuum all day long.

Not to the mention the all stainless steel silencer that is a thing of beauty, 3" in and all the way out. GAY, right? It weights about 150 lbs. In fact, no steel to rust anywhere on the unit, its either stainless or aluminum.

Heck, Butler is so GAY they even put stainless braided hoses everywhere they can.

Dual hose ports for 2.5" hose and closed door cleaning. GAY too.

Oh, one more GAY thing, it all fits in an extended van that fits in my garage. The is no other PTO that offers this flexibility. Factory install. Say what you want about that, but that one of the reason I choose Butler. Butler has almost zero employee turn around. They still call the guys that have been working there for 10 years, the "new guys". GAY, GAY, GAY...

One thing I do agree with though, is that Cleanco's are pathetic. Its true, 12hg of lift, everything looks like crap after a few years. Their silencer is a joke. I live less a few miles from Cleano, but I use a Butler which is thousands of mile way.

Seriously though, joking aside I have never used a 1200, but the Butler outclassed the 570SS in power and heat on a commercial job last year. The distributor was embarrassed. Actually he has dropped the line. The amazing heat SS promised in these units never materialized in real life.

 

[hogjowl]

You're not supposed to run them (Cleancos) above 12" of lift. That's like medium speed on a 1200

I think that's on the 56. I believe the 47 Cleanco is run at 15?