Saffire Scientific TM's

[Lee Stockwell]

Nick N and who else?

He could then say he built ONE pretty TM...

 

[hogjowl]

I already tole you, Mikey. I'M NOT COMING THERE TO WORK!

 

[Shawn Forsythe]

1. All tests are done with 70 degree incoming pump water and 70 degree ambient. (The outside air temps being pulled into the air filter of the machine engine.) This would require running the tests indoors.

2. All tests are done with an 18 flow wand.

3. All tests are done with a 10' length of 3/8" ID plumbing directly to the jet manifold.

4. Temperature measurement is taken at the output quick connect of the machine with a certified instrument.

5. From a cold start (and with a wide open wand trigger) what is the temperature on that certified instrument at 5 minutes, 10 minutes, and 20 minutes.

6. One more that I forgot. Each machine must have a sealed vacuum port that creates the exact Hg. that the owner's manual says is the maximum hg. of that machine during the entire test.

What do you think of that as a standard? Can you see any flaws in that? Is it fair? Is there another way that's better?

Shawn

Very good. You also touch on a good point. An HX unit is dependent on loading. Most units perform better from the start with a hard loading warm-up, such as capping the vacuum port during warmup. However, that loadin g is not even close to being maintained under typical circumstances. One user may see better performance from his equipment over another user using identical wand jet opening and cleaning technique, simply by using a wand or having a cleaning surface that loads the machine, engine and blower to produce more heat during operation.

This then leads to a question. Can we, or do we have a loading standard that can be applied? Should then all units be tested with a chosen warm-up load of say, whatever the machine is capable for 5 minutes, then dropping the load to a predetermined vacuum load for the balance of test intervals? I think we can. The above example I gave with the Little Giant heater is probably the simplest of examples, because a stand-alone fuel fired heat system is independent of machine loading.

I like your test outline, Mr. York (I feel funny calling another by the same name). I think the first manufacturer out of the gate with a reasonable test protocol for heat capability of equipment that has rank and file user support, should be commended.

 

[Bill Bruders]

Gentlemen
I've been supporting the establishment of industry equipment standards for years 4 years ago I sent a letter out to over 15,000 industry people calling on restoration equipment manufacturers to submit their equipment for certified testing and certification through AHAM for dehu's and AMCA for airmovers. (these are the international certification bodies recognized by ANSI) frankly the whole effort fell on deaf ears. We pushed ahead and paid the money to have the certifications on all our products and not a single other manufacturer followed suit. Today the problem is frankly worse with people claiming AHAM dehu performance numbers that are overstated by 10, 20 even 40%. Airmovers are the worse as companies use theoritical numbers that are consistantly 50% overstated.
I'm bring this to the group because I doubtful that you will see manufacturers support this effort. Marketing science rules in this industry.

 

[TimP]

It would be nice to have everyone on a level playing field with their numbers so that we can all see who has the best heating systems. Before we buy, it would be nice to know what heat #'s we are looking at in the real world. Also in addition it would be nice to have a standard for the vacuum system.

Then we all would be more educated when we went to purchase our new machines.

The problem is that none of the manufacturers want to pay for outside testing. And I can't blame them. And doing it in house would leave room for cheating.

 

[Bill Bruders]

Sounds to me like if anybody could get it done, you could. It sounds like you've sung in that choir before. "Grass Roots" cleaners whining on the internet is a very powerful weapon as well. Maybe even better.
Maybe the way you could do it this time is by stating your own parameters and test results proudly in every ad you do. Since Legends is the new 600lb Gorilla in the industry, other manufacturers may have to follow suit. Maybe. Who knows - but like I said if anybody can pull it off...

Bill, what do you (and Jim) think of the standards I've proposed? Have I missed any variables?

Shawn[/quote]

Shawn I'm not in the miracle working business, I leave that to a higher power. As for the standards, I'm sure that people recognize this but focusing just on heat and vacuum when evaluating a TM is rather dangerous. Performance is important but reliability rules when it comes to products and services. My concern is that having this topic alone drive decision making could lead people to make poor decisions. As for he gorilla concept I don't think we meet that criteria and I wouldn't be comfortable trying to do so.
No offense to the grass roots concept either but the lack of response from the big truckmount companies (and most small ones as well) to comments and questions on this board tells me that while they may very well be watching whats going on they are not inclined to address anything or change thier approach to business. It's important for all of us to recognize that there are some 35,000 carpet cleaning companies in the US. and to date no one has been successful in becoming the voice for all.

 

[ronbeatty]

Bill, didn't anybody tell you, Mikey is the voice of the of the PREMIER carpet cleaners. :mrgreen:

 

[hogjowl]

So ... jImMY WASN'T the hundredth moneky after all? :shock:

 

[Bill Bruders]

The Japanese monkey, ....................


All we need is Legends, Vortex, BLUEline, Hydramaster, Butler, Prochem, and Judson. If they are all on board the rest will follow.

Be the first to step up to the plate Bill. If you agree to the parameters and variables I have outlined I will personally get to work calling the others.

Be the Monkey.

No Thanks Shawn while it may not be achievable I still aspire to be a couple of places up the evolutionary scale from that of a monkey and judging from the personalities on this board I suspect most others do as well.

 

[Bob Savage]

MF should be very intersting.

 

[Mikey P]

You'd think that idiot Evan Kessler would offer me a few grand to be able to print this thread in his rag.



In place of another Crazy George article on how to F your clients in the ass.

 

[Jim Pemberton]

Quote of the Week!

You'd think that idiot Evan Kessler would offer me a few grand to be able to print this thread in his rag.



In place of another Crazy George article on how to F your clients in the ass.

Quote of the week Mikey.

 

[hogjowl]

Why does every topic here eventually end up discussing that part of the human anatomy?

 

[TimP]

Why does every topic here eventually end up discussing that part of the human anatomy?

It shouldn't bother you since I thought that you were into that part.....or maybe that's Danny