Someone show me a vacuum cleaner full of encap crystals

[Bob Foster]

I'm not buying the hype. Don't bother showing me a petri dish that's dried out.

Show me a vacuum bag or a dirt cup of dried out post vacuumed picked up encap crystals.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

The holy grail of encap salespeople.

Would be interesting to do a side by side on perhaps a long hallway. Prevac all of it equally, encap one side, let it dry.

Then vacuum each side with identical vacuums (new bag) for equal time.

 

[daniel@procarpet]

I used Prochem All Fiber Deep Clean once. The owner closed the business for a few days after cleaning. Then I get a call that there is powder everywhere in the carpet and it will not vacuum out. I rubbed my hand accross the carpet and sure enough there was dried powder in the carpet. It was no big deal and I told him it was supposed to do that to prevent resoiling etc. I am careful about using certain products. The polymer doesn't just vacuum out.

 

[idreadnought]

I will show you something way more important. How about a check from a very happy customer that wants you back over and over. Whether you buy the idea or not, the appearance of the carpets look better and I routinely get jobs from the employees after cleanings. What would you rather have, a throughly cleaned carpet that looks like crap or a lousy cleaned carpet that looks great? Keep cleaning your cgd carpet with water and I will make them my own sooner than later

 

[Fred Homan]

I did some hallways a few days ago with Snake oil from Les, Triple strength.
As part of what I offered, I went back the next day to post vacuum. Most custodian type people do not vacuum worth a shit. They need to use a vacuum with a beater bar for post vacuuming after encap. I really saw a difference. Some of you should try this some time. YOU go back and post vacuum. Do not leave it to the custodian who really does not care.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

That well and good Richard. Just don't make such claims about where the pixie dust goes without proof.

We all know encap "works", and most of us use it from time to time.

 

[Fred Homan]

I love my Cimex/Encap.....

 

[amazingcleansc]

I'm not buying the hype. Don't bother showing me a petri dish that's dried out.

Show me a vacuum bag or a dirt cup of dried out post vacuumed picked up encap crystals.

the crystals look like dirt, is the problem

 

[Bob Foster]

Blah blah blah blah... Show me the crystals in a vacuum cleaner.

BTW I encap with a Cimex and an OP.

 

[amazingcleansc]

Blah blah blah blah... Show me the crystals in a vacuum cleaner.

BTW I encap with a Cimex and an OP.

okay there bob. how about show a white rag wiping dirt off of an encapped carpet like doodoo. ill get right on it.

btw is the OP worth the money? I dont have one... where does it work well? ive got a host crb on the way.

 

[Joe Bristor]

"YOU go back and post vacuum. Do not leave it to the custodian who really does not care."

I always post vac my jobs.
Tom Hruby taught me that.
use Sanitairre with clear cup.
should take a picture for Bob.
It looks not like crystals but more like fine dark gray sand.
But I guaratanee it's working.
I explain it like Pac-Man.
Surfactants eat (encapsulate) soils n oils then Encap polymer eats the surfactant.
Surfactants left from HWE leave stickiness.
Encap polymers dry to a fine dry powder, that IS vacuum-able (at least mine sure is).
I do a dry HOST (I'd use a Whittiker if i wasn't such a cheap bastard)
then a quick vacuuming,
then a warm encap prespray
then more HOSTing.
vacuum it, groom it, fan dry it. done.
slower than hwe but more thorough, better end result and dry when done.
and way less overhead in terms of equipment.
use my Kleenrite floodsucker just for stairs and halls, but still very low moisture.
stairs come out beautiful using this method, light & fluffy, and dry.

 

[Fred Homan]

Good reply Joe....

 

[amazingcleansc]

it was perfect except for the "then more hosting" part. thats where you scrub the shit out of it with a pad.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

Several have nice explanations.

No one has a reliable demonstration.

 

[amazingcleansc]

fine. ill see what i can do tomm.

 

[Brian R]

I cleaned a job right after an encaper...I did vacuum first because when you smacked the carpet, the "dust" flew.
I filled up the cup about 4 times...but I didn't take pics...sorry Bob.

 

[Bob Foster]

Joe and everyone else the gray crystals pictures would be proof enough for me. I don't think many of us go back the day after an encap job and vacuum it. I sure don't.

 

[John Olson]

I used Prochem All Fiber Deep Clean once. The owner closed the business for a few days after cleaning. Then I get a call that there is powder everywhere in the carpet and it will not vacuum out. I rubbed my hand accross the carpet and sure enough there was dried powder in the carpet. It was no big deal and I told him it was supposed to do that to prevent resoiling etc. I am careful about using certain products. The polymer doesn't just vacuum out.

That wasn't the all fiber deep clean. What you experianced was carpet fresh. None of the products in the market from any manfactuer will leave a powdery residue. It has and ways will be carpet fresh or something similar.

 

[Joe Bristor]

Thanks Fred.
That's a real compliment coming from a veteran as yourself who still cleans the corners.

Able1 - sorry, I was describing my typical residential job. CRB just works better than padding on cut-pile imo.

What little cgd I do (an Elks lodge and a couple of churches) yes I use pad and rotary (sold my favorite OP, what a mistake that was, but it's in more capable hands with the younger Francisco Pulido). And I don't postvac commercial so much. sorry to dissapoint Fred. But it looks great and I'm on the clock so they say the janitors will get to it soon enough.

Lee, I'm no BSer when it comes to cleaning...I DO get better results encapping the old men's Lounge of the Lodge (cigar ashes, massive sodapop, coffee & beer coronary splashes) than I ever did with HWE. It's totally closed in - an invitation to wicking, but in the morning, I usually only have to shoot the worst part, the entry and pad it real quick and it's perfect. Same with entryways to churches. Seattle's wet feet make alota mud that permeates the pore of the best nylon. Ain't no wand gonna fix that. But give me a cotton pad and OP and encapping is just damn fun. I can't believe you don't know this stuff Lee? And to the guys leaving white powder, I've done that too. Just use clear water or very dilute encap as your pad soak to extract most of the polymer as you're padding. Didn't Guerkink teach us that?

PS for Marty, the sythetic pads work pretty good too.

PS2 Did you guys know that Marty played defensive end? Isnt that what you told me Marty.
Probly damn good one too.

 

[ruff]

"
I explain it like Pac-Man.
Surfactants eat (encapsulate) soils n oils then Encap polymer eats the surfactant.
.

Sure reminds me of ChemWho explanations about their dirt fighting carbonated bubbles going all the way down to the carpet, heroically removing all dirt!

And we know how well that really worked.

Even if you do get crystal dust to fill up your vacuum bag, it still proves nothing about 'encapsulation' claims and 'non resoiling' claims. Side by side testing of end results, resoiling results (not a week, a few months.) will.

And nothing about how unhealthy the stuff (crystals) that is left in the carpet is for people (yes, your clients are people,) who will breathe it. And the polymer is not biodegradable. (Ask Steve Smith who is honest.)

And how unhealthy the soil that is not removed, since there is no real rinsing, can be for the people who live on that carpet.

It could be that the looks are good.
I dono.
But looks ain't everything.

Or is it?

 

[Ron Werner]

I'm going back to post vac a hallway I encapped this week. I'll make sure I wash out canister first.
Funny thing about it, I was encapping to avoid the buckling that happens with this carpet when it gets wet. It buckled even with encap moisture.

 

[Joe Bristor]

now I know why Geurkink doesn't get involved in these posts anymore.
It's like trying to argue with Lisa (no offense Lisa, please don't beat me up too bad).

I don't know about Chem Dry's bubbles.
But I can say with scientific confidence that encap polymers are pretty innocent; inert that is, certainly no more harmful than their florinated protectant brothers. Very persistant yes, but harmless. So get off my back, OK?

 

[Bill Soukoreff]

now I know why Geurkink doesn't get involved in these posts anymore.
It's like trying to argue with Lisa (no offense Lisa, please don't beat me up too bad).

I don't know about Chem Dry's bubbles.
But I can say with scientific confidence that encap polymers are pretty innocent; inert that is, certainly no more harmful than their florinated protectant brothers. Very persistant yes, but harmless. So get off my back, OK?

Joe, please explain more about how you do stairs.

Thanks

 

[Joe Bristor]

stairs: encap prespray, HOST machine without the long handle, back & forth about 2-3 times on each horizontal and 1-2 times on each vertical, and a couple times back & forth on the lip, Quickie brush along the edges where HOST can't get, then postvac with an extractor fitted with a 6-12" tool. that's about it. repeat on lower steps if needed. OK?

 

[ruff]

now I know why Geurkink doesn't get involved in these posts anymore.
It's like trying to argue with Lisa (no offense Lisa, please don't beat me up too bad).

I don't know about Chem Dry's bubbles.
But I can say with scientific confidence that encap polymers are pretty innocent; inert that is, certainly no more harmful than their florinated protectant brothers. Very persistant yes, but harmless. So get off my back, OK?

With claims like this, fat chance Joe

Where is this 'Scientific confidence' coming from?
Post a link to that proof. And not one done by an 'independent lab', we know who pays for their 'independence'.

You can say: It works well for me and others. That's OK.
But don't make scientific claims unless you can prove it.

You also sell these products so you have an interest here. Doesn't make what you say wrong though.

Proof is the word buddy!

P.S. How is your back these days?

 

[amazingcleansc]

living room and hallway on beach house from yesterday. i felt the crystals on my hand, dropped them in the vac, shook the canister around. They dont make a dust cloud like dirt and are much larger particles, but they seem lighter too. The dust bunnies that I dug out and vacuumed up were mixed with fiber plus pad fibers.

 

[Lee Stockwell]

To eliminate pre-existing dirt, and zero in on "encap crystals" the test area would need to be prevacuumed and then post vacuumed as noted earlier, against an identical "control" area not encapped.

 

[amazingcleansc]

To eliminate pre-existing dirt, and zero in on "encap crystals" the test area would need to be prevacuumed and then post vacuumed as noted earlier, against an identical "control" area not encapped.

I prevac-ed the holy shit out of this carpet, until i didn't notice anything coming up. there was some dust bunnies and fuzz in the cup (stuff i dug out with the agitation of the cimex) and fibers from the scrub pads, that being said...

What I had on my hand was crystals. I wish you could have felt them. When you crumbled them between your fingers they were coarse, different from regular vacuum dirt because they weren't "dusty" and didnt leave residue on my fingers. In addition, they were brownish tinted instead of grayish like what I vacuumed yesterday when I prevacced.

 

[tmdry]

"
I explain it like Pac-Man.
Surfactants eat (encapsulate) soils n oils then Encap polymer eats the surfactant.
.

Sure reminds me of ChemWho explanations about their dirt fighting carbonated bubbles going all the way down to the carpet, heroically removing all dirt!

And we know how well that really worked.

Even if you do get crystal dust to fill up your vacuum bag, it still proves nothing about 'encapsulation' claims and 'non resoiling' claims. Side by side testing of end results, resoiling results (not a week, a few months.) will.

And nothing about how unhealthy the stuff (crystals) that is left in the carpet is for people (yes, your clients are people,) who will breathe it. And the polymer is not biodegradable. (Ask Steve Smith who is honest.)

And how unhealthy the soil that is not removed, since there is no real rinsing, can be for the people who live on that carpet.

It could be that the looks are good.
I dono.
But looks ain't everything.

Or is it?

Offer,

The key is to use both to your best advantage, most of the time it is not cost effective because no matter what you use you will not able to remove all the soil including residue from the chems. You can prevac, pre spray, dwell, run your wand or rotovac w/ a glide, the carpets will "be" and "look" clean, however anyone w/ a wet or dry pad can go behind you and the pads will be soiled, depending on the condition of the carpet the pads can be really dirty even after you cleaned it with your method of choice. This shows that no matter what you use you still won't be able to retrieve all the chems that you sprayed, nor soil. This is even worse on cgd in nasty restaurants, I ran the Cimex w/ Powerburst, dwell, high flow wand, than post padded w/ DS Encap, and they were still black. But it did add a nice touch to the end results, only downside it took much longer, and restaurants don't want to pay anything.

I've done many tests using a Prochem Legend XL, an Everest, a Hydra 4.8 CDS, and an older AT, cleaned first using 2 in high flow wand, HX and LGH, rotovacs, drimaster, than post padded, some we did it with no encap juice(just put the pad down dry) and others we post sprayed and post padded(glad pads), same thing, medium to heavy soiled dirty pads.

So you're right looks ain't everything, but if the 2 combined, it will deff be and look cleaner, than just one doing it all.

 

[Jimmy L]

.