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amazingcleansc
Guest
that is cray cray.
Someone show me a vacuum cleaner full of encap crystals
- Thread starter Bob Foster
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Joe Bristor
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 303
Good call Geurkink.
'Shard' IS a better description for what we're seeing in the scope - amorphous, structureless bodies of friable glass.
Looks just like paleo insects suspended in amber,
PacMan swallowing PacMan,
surfactants swallowing dirt then embrittling agents swallowing surfactants.
stickiness turned to driness.
Go Geurkink.
Got anymore?
'Shard' IS a better description for what we're seeing in the scope - amorphous, structureless bodies of friable glass.
Looks just like paleo insects suspended in amber,
PacMan swallowing PacMan,
surfactants swallowing dirt then embrittling agents swallowing surfactants.
stickiness turned to driness.
Go Geurkink.
Got anymore?
Great photo John!
Now that you have proved your point, I want to see hard-core "scientific" evidence that encap does not work! The old worn out argument of "My 30 years of experience... blah, blah, blah...", is no evidence at all. Personal attacks are some people's substitute for substance or evidence.
Show me the proof!
Now that you have proved your point, I want to see hard-core "scientific" evidence that encap does not work! The old worn out argument of "My 30 years of experience... blah, blah, blah...", is no evidence at all. Personal attacks are some people's substitute for substance or evidence.
Show me the proof!
Thanks Jeff, what frustrates me the most is the peyton place syndrome where everyone "talks" to each other and decides what does and doesn't work.
When I came to the bbs's 15 years ago as an OP'r, everyone TOLD me what I could and could not do, however at that point I had done it for 22 years and KNEW what I could and could not do, all the talking or slamming in the world couldn't change what "was".
So now years later I see the same thing still happening, so I just suggest people TEST FOR YOURSELF and laugh at what others say. I you and your customers are convinced, what difference does it make what peyton (Not Payton...LOL) place has to say?
When I came to the bbs's 15 years ago as an OP'r, everyone TOLD me what I could and could not do, however at that point I had done it for 22 years and KNEW what I could and could not do, all the talking or slamming in the world couldn't change what "was".
So now years later I see the same thing still happening, so I just suggest people TEST FOR YOURSELF and laugh at what others say. I you and your customers are convinced, what difference does it make what peyton (Not Payton...LOL) place has to say?
Mikey P
Administrator
150 feet of what sort of carpet John?
Was it thoroughly pre vac'd before Capping?
Was it thoroughly pre vac'd before Capping?
ruff
Member
The real tests will be:
1) How much dirt really stays in the carpet after encapoop cleaning compared to regular hot water extraction.
2) And that test will also be, what do these crystals, "inert" as Joe calls them, do to human lungs once they reach them. And they will reach them have no doubt.
Any pictures or evidence of that John?
Isn't asbestos inert as well?
Once you do that, then you can laugh at Peyton/Payton place all you wish and who knows, maybe we'll join you.
Most serious guys here are not out to prove you wrong, they are out to do a good job that is also safe for their clients. And most serious guys here will add any, (ANY) system to their arsenal if it gives them one more tool to give a better service and better results.
You and Joe on the other hand sell a product. Could be that it is harmless and a great product and if you can prove it, that is great news. There is not enough evidence yet.
And don't poo poo us as our concern is serious.
1) How much dirt really stays in the carpet after encapoop cleaning compared to regular hot water extraction.
2) And that test will also be, what do these crystals, "inert" as Joe calls them, do to human lungs once they reach them. And they will reach them have no doubt.
Any pictures or evidence of that John?
Isn't asbestos inert as well?
Once you do that, then you can laugh at Peyton/Payton place all you wish and who knows, maybe we'll join you.
Most serious guys here are not out to prove you wrong, they are out to do a good job that is also safe for their clients. And most serious guys here will add any, (ANY) system to their arsenal if it gives them one more tool to give a better service and better results.
You and Joe on the other hand sell a product. Could be that it is harmless and a great product and if you can prove it, that is great news. There is not enough evidence yet.
And don't poo poo us as our concern is serious.
NobleCarpetCleaners
Member
- Joined
- May 16, 2010
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- 1,191
- Name
- Noble Carpet Cleaners
Like a pissing contest we're alway bickering about what WE think, feel and suppose. Thus taking our eye off the ball.
Joe Bristor
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 303
The perfect guy to address this, for I know of his involvement with the DfE, is online right now, Tom Forsythe of Bridgepoint.
Let's see if he responds to ofer. Iseeru
Let's see if he responds to ofer. Iseeru
Ryan
Member
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2009
- Messages
- 2,415
Lee Stockwell said:
You may not care about impressing us, but you (I say "you" genericly not directly at you Lee) sure do enjoy talking down to the new guys, and point out the that we have one or two years in the trade. If I'm making the same amount as some of you, (or more in cases) why would I want to listen to your years of experience?
And WHO CARES if encap crystals vacuum out or not? It makes the carpet look good and puts cash in our pockets. I think some of you guys have a problem with making money.
Desk Jockey
Member
I can't explain how a microwave works, but I see the results each time I use it.
Don't know if the pixie dust fairies come later and remove the soil, but I know when I use encapsulation it works too.
Don't know if the pixie dust fairies come later and remove the soil, but I know when I use encapsulation it works too.
sweendogg
Member
Chavez great reply,
Ryan I see your point, but remember there are different business people on board here and most of the cleaners here are happy being an owner operator that makes a good wage, while providing the best possible service to their customer. While we may be making the same amount of money as someone who has umpting years in the trade, you can't trade knowledge for experience. Even with all of the knowledge of the boards, there are certain scenarios that someone with that 40 years of experience is going to save his ass and even make some money off the soured situation where a young buck like us may end up loosing our asses or profit. So you ask why would we want to listen to the older cleaners?
A young bull is introduced to a hurd and runs up to the elder bull, and says, lets go down and make it with a cow. The Elder Bull stretches and says, " One cow? lets do the entire Hurd!"
And to stay on subject of encap crystals...
Yes we may know encap works and it DOES put money in our pockets. However, encap is a new methodolgy piggy backing on an old style (shampoo) delivery system. Ergo as an industry we really don't know the LONG term effects compared to other cleaning methods and chemical exposure. While the short time respectively its been in the industry, Encap has proven relatively safe. But I think the question about long term exposure is a valid one to pose. Not to mention how will encap products react with other chemistries if WE are not the cleaners who return. For instance say we encap building and then loose a bid to a Cheapo HWE using high pH chemistries or some home brew.. is there a possiblity it will react negatively causing a resoiling or residue issue that WE get blamed for? While I doubt this situation would occur to this extend, in this sue happy economy, its a good idea to understand all sides of our methods.
Ryan I see your point, but remember there are different business people on board here and most of the cleaners here are happy being an owner operator that makes a good wage, while providing the best possible service to their customer. While we may be making the same amount of money as someone who has umpting years in the trade, you can't trade knowledge for experience. Even with all of the knowledge of the boards, there are certain scenarios that someone with that 40 years of experience is going to save his ass and even make some money off the soured situation where a young buck like us may end up loosing our asses or profit. So you ask why would we want to listen to the older cleaners?
A young bull is introduced to a hurd and runs up to the elder bull, and says, lets go down and make it with a cow. The Elder Bull stretches and says, " One cow? lets do the entire Hurd!"
And to stay on subject of encap crystals...
Yes we may know encap works and it DOES put money in our pockets. However, encap is a new methodolgy piggy backing on an old style (shampoo) delivery system. Ergo as an industry we really don't know the LONG term effects compared to other cleaning methods and chemical exposure. While the short time respectively its been in the industry, Encap has proven relatively safe. But I think the question about long term exposure is a valid one to pose. Not to mention how will encap products react with other chemistries if WE are not the cleaners who return. For instance say we encap building and then loose a bid to a Cheapo HWE using high pH chemistries or some home brew.. is there a possiblity it will react negatively causing a resoiling or residue issue that WE get blamed for? While I doubt this situation would occur to this extend, in this sue happy economy, its a good idea to understand all sides of our methods.
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amazingcleansc
Guest
in court, the last carpet cleaner to clean a carpet is the one who gets blamed 
dealtimeman
Everyday is Saturday.
john and others who encap alot, do you encap daycares and other childrens facilities?
GeneMiller
Member
why not just run the encap through the hwe system as a rinse then you would have the best of both worlds ? extreme rinsing of the truck mount with any residue being encapsulated.
gene
gene
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amazingcleansc
Guest
GeneMiller said:
depends. its a waste of money with some encap chemicals because they have flourochemical protection built in.
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amazingcleansc
Guest
No, no, he's trying to imply that any input I give is wrong because of the amount of time I've been in the carpet cleaning business.
Lee Stockwell
FOJL
John do you not use the OP and pads to encap? Seems you would be removing some soil immediately in the process.
I'm not trying to slam encap but to find a demonstratable test to verify what is happening. Not anecodotal accounts of what someone did in the past, or pictures of past work.
I'd like to see proof that could be demonstrated tomorrow and verified. YES, we know encap "looks good". I did that for years with shampoo and skill born of desperation. The label on the Johnson's Rugbee container in 1970 promised that any residue would dry into crystals that would vacuum up. No proof, and in fact, I doubt it did. Nice goal, but I'm like Stephen here.
I'm not trying to slam encap but to find a demonstratable test to verify what is happening. Not anecodotal accounts of what someone did in the past, or pictures of past work.
I'd like to see proof that could be demonstrated tomorrow and verified. YES, we know encap "looks good". I did that for years with shampoo and skill born of desperation. The label on the Johnson's Rugbee container in 1970 promised that any residue would dry into crystals that would vacuum up. No proof, and in fact, I doubt it did. Nice goal, but I'm like Stephen here.
Desk Jockey
Member
LOL Rugbee. We use to use Rugbee also, then moved on to Carolyn in 55-gallon drums before finally buying our first HWE machine, a
Steam Genie Maxi-Port.
Steam Genie Maxi-Port.
joeynbgky
Supportive Member
As of August1, 2010 Encapping products are being banned by the EPA and government.... So all you encappers, you have to stop, even if you still have product....... I'm not sure why the suppliers have not mentioned it yet...... Im sure alot will go out of business. poor cimex
Goomer
Member
joeynbgky said:
WTF are you talking about?
joeynbgky
Supportive Member
Encap products have been banned, so stop talking about encapping, no need to its over with.. So sell your cimex's for scrap and buy another TM
LisaWagnerCRS
Member
The thread over on CF board explained to me that the encap means it cleans again and again as you vacuum in the future.... and that it's harmless.
Would you eat that stuff in the photos? Even though it does not "look" like regular dirt... how is this any different than soil being left behind?
If you are pulling up "stuff" is it still contaminants - just "clean" contaminants?
I'm not arguing here - I'm being serious. If the argument is quicker dry times, no water/chemical residue behind... how is it truly "better"?
Lisa
Would you eat that stuff in the photos? Even though it does not "look" like regular dirt... how is this any different than soil being left behind?
If you are pulling up "stuff" is it still contaminants - just "clean" contaminants?
I'm not arguing here - I'm being serious. If the argument is quicker dry times, no water/chemical residue behind... how is it truly "better"?
Lisa
Joe Bristor
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2010
- Messages
- 303
Anyone know of any testing done to prove whether embrittled dirt releases more readily than un-embrittled dirt :?:
Dolly Llama
Number 5
let me preface by saying, we're not a "one method" outfit.
we use TM as our primary method, but also pad/bonnet clean with rotary or OP as stand alone and conjunction with TM (a scrub AND extract)
I'm not "anti" anything and quite pro "profit" oriented
some methods (and combination of methods) are CLEARLY superior to others in every way.
That doesn't mean you can't make happy shinny peeps with "whatever" method you choose.
If your custy is happy and you're banking jack, it's all good to me.....
....................................................................................................................................
this jumped out at me;
no it's not.
it's comments like that from the spray'n wipe "only" crowd that draw fire..and rightly so
what water "starts" up the vac hose during the rinse recovery isn't near as dirty by the time you've finished flush/rinse extracting...."IF" done right
and I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, John
BUT...I'd also like to know if you vacced that 150sf carpet thoroughly "first" BEFORE you encRapped it.
that was the first thing I thought when I saw that pic
..L.T.A.
we use TM as our primary method, but also pad/bonnet clean with rotary or OP as stand alone and conjunction with TM (a scrub AND extract)
I'm not "anti" anything and quite pro "profit" oriented
some methods (and combination of methods) are CLEARLY superior to others in every way.
That doesn't mean you can't make happy shinny peeps with "whatever" method you choose.
If your custy is happy and you're banking jack, it's all good to me.....
....................................................................................................................................
this jumped out at me;
John G. said:
no it's not.
it's comments like that from the spray'n wipe "only" crowd that draw fire..and rightly so
what water "starts" up the vac hose during the rinse recovery isn't near as dirty by the time you've finished flush/rinse extracting...."IF" done right
and I don't want to seem like I'm picking on you, John
BUT...I'd also like to know if you vacced that 150sf carpet thoroughly "first" BEFORE you encRapped it.
that was the first thing I thought when I saw that pic
..L.T.A.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof!
I need hard-core evidence! I would no more believe your statement than if you said that Hot Water Extraction method was banned by the EPA because it atomizes carcinogens!
Either you are really sharp and better informed than the average carpet cleaner, or you are a liar and a hack! Inquiring minds want to know!
Being a guy who has probably gone behind more HWE than most anyone, 'intentionally" I don't think you quite get it, if you hwe a carpet and run a dry pad.. to pick up remaining water, it is very dirty, this isn't even debatable... so what color is the water in the pad? how about the waste tank?
I am not guessing here, it is just the way it is.
Also, yes the carpet was prevac;s, but what few realize is when you prevac you don't get near as much as most assume, now after OP when all the
carpet fibers are standing up, man you get a lot more.
Anyway, the vac'd particles were inspected and they were shards of polymer filled with soil.
I am not guessing here, it is just the way it is.
Also, yes the carpet was prevac;s, but what few realize is when you prevac you don't get near as much as most assume, now after OP when all the
carpet fibers are standing up, man you get a lot more.
Anyway, the vac'd particles were inspected and they were shards of polymer filled with soil.
